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	<title>Comments on: BREAKING: US Holds 300 Prisoners Linked to Iran</title>
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		<title>By: curious</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7568</link>
		<dc:creator>curious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7568</guid>
		<description>to scotty:
&quot;Why did the gutless wonder commanding the nasty-looking destroyer the Brit. sailors came from not interdict the Iranian gunboats and nip the problem in the bud? So many commanders these days (US as well) are simply bureaucrats in uniform and not real military people. Thank God for Portreus.&quot;

The British navy is obviously under rules of engagement that prevented the captain of the destroyer from firing on the Iranians.  The USS Cole was under similar rules of engagement which allowed a small boat to come right up to its hull.

Rules of engagement are set by the military in order to enforce POLITICAL instructions.  When the British navy was the fearsome force to be reckoned with that it was up until the labor party dismatled it, British fleet officers often ignored the instructions from politicians, in one well known case in WWII a British fleet officer ignored a direct order to withdraw his ships, which were evacuating British soldiers from Crete, and leave the soldiers (many of whom were wounded) on the shore, due to German planes which were bombing and strafing his ships.  The fleet officer replied to this order &quot;Sir, it takes 3 years to build a ship, it takes 300 years to build a tradition, I will not abandon these British soldiers to the Germans, we will not leave until every single one of them has been evacuated, come what may&quot;.  Unfortunately for the British people, their peace loving labor party threw away 300 years of tradition that was built with the blood and courage of people like this admiral, when they dismantled the British navy, the British people are now paying a very heavy price.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to scotty:<br />
&#8220;Why did the gutless wonder commanding the nasty-looking destroyer the Brit. sailors came from not interdict the Iranian gunboats and nip the problem in the bud? So many commanders these days (US as well) are simply bureaucrats in uniform and not real military people. Thank God for Portreus.&#8221;</p>
<p>The British navy is obviously under rules of engagement that prevented the captain of the destroyer from firing on the Iranians.  The USS Cole was under similar rules of engagement which allowed a small boat to come right up to its hull.</p>
<p>Rules of engagement are set by the military in order to enforce POLITICAL instructions.  When the British navy was the fearsome force to be reckoned with that it was up until the labor party dismatled it, British fleet officers often ignored the instructions from politicians, in one well known case in WWII a British fleet officer ignored a direct order to withdraw his ships, which were evacuating British soldiers from Crete, and leave the soldiers (many of whom were wounded) on the shore, due to German planes which were bombing and strafing his ships.  The fleet officer replied to this order &#8220;Sir, it takes 3 years to build a ship, it takes 300 years to build a tradition, I will not abandon these British soldiers to the Germans, we will not leave until every single one of them has been evacuated, come what may&#8221;.  Unfortunately for the British people, their peace loving labor party threw away 300 years of tradition that was built with the blood and courage of people like this admiral, when they dismantled the British navy, the British people are now paying a very heavy price.</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7567</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7567</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;What are the &quot;300&quot; saying?&lt;/i&gt;

The question is almost worth as much as the answer.  The fact that Iran has to ask that question and doesn&#039;t know the answer forces them to try to act to counter the effects of multiple different answers, sometimes to cross purposes I&#039;ll bet.

sdemetri:
&lt;i&gt;If Sunni militias are fighting Shiite militias, as news accounts report daily, the logic of Iran funding both sides is faulty, if not ridiculous.&lt;/i&gt;

Is the phrase &quot;playing both ends against the middle&quot; unfamiliar to you?  Iran doesn&#039;t need to have any one side win; they need to have enough civil strife that everyone loses and the country splits apart.  Then they get to come in and cherry-pick the pieces.

nate zuckerman:

&lt;i&gt;Iran grabs Brits; US (there is no multinational force) grabs Iranians...what does this tell us?&lt;/i&gt;

That you apparently think that British subjects are American citizens.  Newsflash; in English, &quot;multi-&quot; means &quot;more than one&quot;.

Scotty:

&lt;i&gt;Why did the gutless wonder commanding the nasty-looking destroyer the Brit. sailors came from not interdict the Iranian gunboats and nip the problem in the bud?&lt;/i&gt;

I am tempted to join the chorus agreeing with you, but a) we don&#039;t know the British commander&#039;s ROE, and b) we don&#039;t know what the odds were that blowing the hell out of the Iranians would have gotten the 15 British sailors killed in the bargain and what calculation the British equivalent of the JAG requires of the commander in such a situation.  This law is being fought by military lawyers a lot more than previous ones.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>What are the &#8220;300&#8243; saying?</i></p>
<p>The question is almost worth as much as the answer.  The fact that Iran has to ask that question and doesn&#8217;t know the answer forces them to try to act to counter the effects of multiple different answers, sometimes to cross purposes I&#8217;ll bet.</p>
<p>sdemetri:<br />
<i>If Sunni militias are fighting Shiite militias, as news accounts report daily, the logic of Iran funding both sides is faulty, if not ridiculous.</i></p>
<p>Is the phrase &#8220;playing both ends against the middle&#8221; unfamiliar to you?  Iran doesn&#8217;t need to have any one side win; they need to have enough civil strife that everyone loses and the country splits apart.  Then they get to come in and cherry-pick the pieces.</p>
<p>nate zuckerman:</p>
<p><i>Iran grabs Brits; US (there is no multinational force) grabs Iranians&#8230;what does this tell us?</i></p>
<p>That you apparently think that British subjects are American citizens.  Newsflash; in English, &#8220;multi-&#8221; means &#8220;more than one&#8221;.</p>
<p>Scotty:</p>
<p><i>Why did the gutless wonder commanding the nasty-looking destroyer the Brit. sailors came from not interdict the Iranian gunboats and nip the problem in the bud?</i></p>
<p>I am tempted to join the chorus agreeing with you, but a) we don&#8217;t know the British commander&#8217;s ROE, and b) we don&#8217;t know what the odds were that blowing the hell out of the Iranians would have gotten the 15 British sailors killed in the bargain and what calculation the British equivalent of the JAG requires of the commander in such a situation.  This law is being fought by military lawyers a lot more than previous ones.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Miller</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7566</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7566</guid>
		<description>Can State Department employees be bartered for allied captives of Iran??
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can State Department employees be bartered for allied captives of Iran??</p>
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		<title>By: clazy</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7565</link>
		<dc:creator>clazy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 04:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7565</guid>
		<description>Me three--which is why I felt so stupid when I read Mario Loyola&#039;s Saturday &lt;a href=&quot;http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MjYyYTQ3ODcwMDRkNWJlYTFiNWViOWU0OGRhMDQyYWU=&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;post&lt;/a&gt; at The Corner, which cast a skeptical light on the event: &lt;i&gt;&quot;Iranian Revolutionary Guards seize fifteen British sailors supposedly on patrol in Iraqi waters, but nearby British warship does not interdict the RG raid, suggesting strongly that the Brits were not in Iraqi waters.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

That may be the wrong explanation, but surely something other than chickensh** cowardice explains the captain&#039;s failure to respond.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Me three&#8211;which is why I felt so stupid when I read Mario Loyola&#8217;s Saturday <a href="http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MjYyYTQ3ODcwMDRkNWJlYTFiNWViOWU0OGRhMDQyYWU=" rel="nofollow">post</a> at The Corner, which cast a skeptical light on the event: <i>&#8220;Iranian Revolutionary Guards seize fifteen British sailors supposedly on patrol in Iraqi waters, but nearby British warship does not interdict the RG raid, suggesting strongly that the Brits were not in Iraqi waters.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>That may be the wrong explanation, but surely something other than chickensh** cowardice explains the captain&#8217;s failure to respond.</p>
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		<title>By: Albert J. Williams</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7564</link>
		<dc:creator>Albert J. Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 00:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7564</guid>
		<description>I agree with Scotty,the inaction on the part of the Commodore commanding
the British ship was beyond belief.
What good is a multi-million dollar
warship if you can&#039;t or won&#039;t defend
your own crew members?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Scotty,the inaction on the part of the Commodore commanding<br />
the British ship was beyond belief.<br />
What good is a multi-million dollar<br />
warship if you can&#8217;t or won&#8217;t defend<br />
your own crew members?</p>
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		<title>By: Scotty</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7563</link>
		<dc:creator>Scotty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 23:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7563</guid>
		<description>Why did the gutless wonder commanding the nasty-looking destroyer the Brit. sailors came from not interdict the Iranian gunboats and nip the problem in the bud?  So many commanders these days (US as well) are simply bureaucrats in uniform and not real military people.  Thank God for Portreus.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why did the gutless wonder commanding the nasty-looking destroyer the Brit. sailors came from not interdict the Iranian gunboats and nip the problem in the bud?  So many commanders these days (US as well) are simply bureaucrats in uniform and not real military people.  Thank God for Portreus.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonny</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7562</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 23:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7562</guid>
		<description>
&quot;I suspect your &quot;evidence&quot; that Iran is funding Sunni militias is highly suspect. If Sunni militias are fighting Shiite militias, as news accounts report daily, the logic of Iran funding both sides is faulty, if not ridiculous.&quot;

Why? The idea is to sow strife and conflict inside Iraq, and it&#039;s working. Iran is playing both sides against each other, what is so hard to believe about that?

The rest of your post doesn&#039;t make sense either, I won&#039;t bother with it.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I suspect your &#8220;evidence&#8221; that Iran is funding Sunni militias is highly suspect. If Sunni militias are fighting Shiite militias, as news accounts report daily, the logic of Iran funding both sides is faulty, if not ridiculous.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why? The idea is to sow strife and conflict inside Iraq, and it&#8217;s working. Iran is playing both sides against each other, what is so hard to believe about that?</p>
<p>The rest of your post doesn&#8217;t make sense either, I won&#8217;t bother with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Lastango</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7561</link>
		<dc:creator>Lastango</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7561</guid>
		<description>This state of affairs may reflect a change of US policy, and not that of Iran.

Perhaps 300 is &quot;a record number of &lt;i&gt;prisoners&lt;/i&gt;&quot; (my italics) and the reason &quot;Virtually all were captured in the past two months&quot; is because the other, previously-captured Iran-linked operatives were released - so there was no accumulation.

That would be of a piece with the mass releases of many thousands of insurgents and terrorists inside Iraq and hundreds more from Gitmo. Those people returned to fight against and kill our troops, yet the Bush administration continued the practice as part of its self-defeating War Lite.

Here&#039;s a bit of what F. J. Bing West, former assistant secretary of defense, and currently a consultant to the Office of the Secretary of Defense, recently said on the topic &lt;a href=&quot;http://usacac.leavenworth.army.mil/CAC/milreview/English/JanFeb07/West.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; (PDF file)&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Iraq is holding fewer prisoners than Saddam released in late 2002, when he opened the jail gates and let loose tens of thousands of criminals that society had incarcerated over the decades. today, eight out of ten detainees walk free-and they are paid $6 a day for their inconvenience.

...The reason we are not affecting the enemy is because we let him go. &quot;catch and release program&quot; is frustrating to American and Iraqi Soldiers in Iraq; the farcical &quot;rule of law&quot; aids and abets the insurgents and death squads. This war is going to drag on unnecessarily because our senior commanders, military and civilian, do not understand that the war effort is being systematically undercut by not arresting and imprisoning insurgents and death squad members for the duration of the conflict.

The greatest single defect-and it may be mortal-in the effort to restore stability is the refusal of the Iraqi and American systems to imprison the criminals, insurgents, and death squad members.

...So how do we prevail? We don&#039;t.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This has been going on for years, and reflects the White House policy of making political negatives disappear through sleight-of-hand, outreach and &quot;negotiations,&quot; of the sort that blessed us with Iran/al Sadr&#039;s empire encompassing all of southern Iraq.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This state of affairs may reflect a change of US policy, and not that of Iran.</p>
<p>Perhaps 300 is &#8220;a record number of <i>prisoners</i>&#8221; (my italics) and the reason &#8220;Virtually all were captured in the past two months&#8221; is because the other, previously-captured Iran-linked operatives were released &#8211; so there was no accumulation.</p>
<p>That would be of a piece with the mass releases of many thousands of insurgents and terrorists inside Iraq and hundreds more from Gitmo. Those people returned to fight against and kill our troops, yet the Bush administration continued the practice as part of its self-defeating War Lite.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a bit of what F. J. Bing West, former assistant secretary of defense, and currently a consultant to the Office of the Secretary of Defense, recently said on the topic <a href="http://usacac.leavenworth.army.mil/CAC/milreview/English/JanFeb07/West.pdf" rel="nofollow"> (PDF file)</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Iraq is holding fewer prisoners than Saddam released in late 2002, when he opened the jail gates and let loose tens of thousands of criminals that society had incarcerated over the decades. today, eight out of ten detainees walk free-and they are paid $6 a day for their inconvenience.</p>
<p>&#8230;The reason we are not affecting the enemy is because we let him go. &#8220;catch and release program&#8221; is frustrating to American and Iraqi Soldiers in Iraq; the farcical &#8220;rule of law&#8221; aids and abets the insurgents and death squads. This war is going to drag on unnecessarily because our senior commanders, military and civilian, do not understand that the war effort is being systematically undercut by not arresting and imprisoning insurgents and death squad members for the duration of the conflict.</p>
<p>The greatest single defect-and it may be mortal-in the effort to restore stability is the refusal of the Iraqi and American systems to imprison the criminals, insurgents, and death squad members.</p>
<p>&#8230;So how do we prevail? We don&#8217;t.</p></blockquote>
<p>This has been going on for years, and reflects the White House policy of making political negatives disappear through sleight-of-hand, outreach and &#8220;negotiations,&#8221; of the sort that blessed us with Iran/al Sadr&#8217;s empire encompassing all of southern Iraq.</p>
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		<title>By: F. Rottles</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7560</link>
		<dc:creator>F. Rottles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7560</guid>
		<description>But they don&#039;t want to divvy up their country.

And they don&#039;t want their country to be the playground of the hostile Iranian regime.

And they want the Coalition forces to remain to buy them the time to stand on their own.

That means standing against the Iranian sponsored paramilitaries. It means asserting their soveriengty over their shared border with Iran.

It means taking into custody, as per Iraqi law, militants based on a reasonable suspicion of involvement in insurgent attacks.

Three hundred. That tells us more than enough about the Iranian regime and about the paramilitaries they sponsor with both blood and treasure. They are fueling the illegitimate fight against the freedom and newly asserted democracy of the Iraqi People.

Three hundred more in the next coupel of months would be very helpful in defending the unity of Iraq and in defending the beachhead for true reform and freedom in that part of the world. Iran&#039;s regime won&#039;t tolerate such reforms within its own borders and is proven to be hostile toward such reforms within the territories of its neighbors -- and others in the region.

This new effort of the Coaliton, under the impetus of a new and unflinching American Commander, is very welcomed by the Iraqis and by those of us who see this as a just struggle against evil.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But they don&#8217;t want to divvy up their country.</p>
<p>And they don&#8217;t want their country to be the playground of the hostile Iranian regime.</p>
<p>And they want the Coalition forces to remain to buy them the time to stand on their own.</p>
<p>That means standing against the Iranian sponsored paramilitaries. It means asserting their soveriengty over their shared border with Iran.</p>
<p>It means taking into custody, as per Iraqi law, militants based on a reasonable suspicion of involvement in insurgent attacks.</p>
<p>Three hundred. That tells us more than enough about the Iranian regime and about the paramilitaries they sponsor with both blood and treasure. They are fueling the illegitimate fight against the freedom and newly asserted democracy of the Iraqi People.</p>
<p>Three hundred more in the next coupel of months would be very helpful in defending the unity of Iraq and in defending the beachhead for true reform and freedom in that part of the world. Iran&#8217;s regime won&#8217;t tolerate such reforms within its own borders and is proven to be hostile toward such reforms within the territories of its neighbors &#8212; and others in the region.</p>
<p>This new effort of the Coaliton, under the impetus of a new and unflinching American Commander, is very welcomed by the Iraqis and by those of us who see this as a just struggle against evil.</p>
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		<title>By: nate zuckerman</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7559</link>
		<dc:creator>nate zuckerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 18:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/breaking-us-holds-300-prisoners-linked-to-iran/#comment-7559</guid>
		<description>Iran grabs Brits; US (there is no multin ational force) grabs Iranians...what does this tell us?that the invasion  got rid of Saddam and allowed Iran to become a major player and that there is nothing we seem able to do to stop this and that it is causing lives and harm to our troops.
Time perhaps to divvy the nation  in  three and tell them they asked for this and now they have what they seem to want.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Iran grabs Brits; US (there is no multin ational force) grabs Iranians&#8230;what does this tell us?that the invasion  got rid of Saddam and allowed Iran to become a major player and that there is nothing we seem able to do to stop this and that it is causing lives and harm to our troops.<br />
Time perhaps to divvy the nation  in  three and tell them they asked for this and now they have what they seem to want.</p>
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