B4U-Act’s Rogue’s Gallery
He goes on to say this:
My organization is not going to say to offend.
I am a BL without regret and will always be a BL without regret. My life as a bl has been terrific. No one could ever make me say otherwise. This is even considering that I spent time in prison.
Our line in the sand has historically defeated us. We need to think about a new one.
These comments were posted around the same time B4U-ACT had their first meeting with these mental health professionals. The “BL” above stands for “boy lover” which is how pedophiles that target boys refer to themselves. Ones who target girls refer to themselves online as “girl lovers” or “GLs.”
Melsheimer appeared nowhere in public without Dr. Fred Berlin, who as it turned out was Melsheimer’s therapist. Berlin continues to be affiliated with Melsheimer’s group and was featured at this most recent conference. The Daily Caller points out that in the 1990s Berlin was in trouble with the Maryland authorities because he refused to alert law enforcement when child molesters under his care were actively abusing children. He is also a well-known and vocal opponent of sex offender notification laws. What is less well known about Fred Berlin is that he was, for decades, the expert the Catholic Church relied on for advice on how to deal with pedophile priests.
In a 2008 deposition by Archbishop Emeritus Rembert G. Weakland we learn that Berlin counseled the Church to not defrock pedophile priests. He claimed it would be better to keep the priest around for the Church to monitor, something he claimed society at large wouldn’t do. Odd, since thirty years later he is lobbying against monitoring sex offenders. In a 2006 Forbes article, Berlin said this about efforts to monitor sex offenders:
“We’ve basically dehumanized these people with words such as ‘predator,’” said psychiatrist Fred Berlin, founder of the Johns Hopkins Sexual Disorders Clinic in Baltimore.
“Every decent human being wants to protect children,” he said, but even suggesting that criminals who have done their time are entitled to rebuild their lives can tarnish a politician.
“It’s close to heresy,” Berlin said.
Heretical indeed. His two contradictory positions both lead to the same end — protecting the child molester from the consequences of his criminality. Berlin told Church authorities that throwing out pedophile priests would endanger the community at large because the pedophiles need monitoring — yet here he claims that pedophiles shouldn’t be monitored and don’t pose enough of a threat to society to merit keeping a database.
It’s no wonder Berlin is B4U-ACT’s favorite “mental health professional” since his ultimate goal seems to be using his position to decriminalize sexual abuse of children — a tactic he tried in court when he was called as a defense witness for 76-year-old Charles Friedlander. A fellow “mental health professional,” Friedlander was caught in a sting by Tampa area police who arranged a fake meeting with a man who was willing to let Friedlander beat and rape his 11-year-old son. Though he wrote at length about his desire to beat little boys and discussed raping the decoy’s child, Friedlander was diagnosed by Berlin as NOT being either a pedophile or sado-masochist. He therefore, according to Berlin, was just engaging in “fantasy” on the Internet and was never going to abuse a child. The court did not accept this defense.
The big problem with the ‘BL’s is that the objects of their affections are other peoples’ children. All of the ‘BL’s should be put in with the general prison population and removed from every sort of mental health profession.
Pedophilia is not a mental disorder and should not be included in the DSM IV. It is a crime and needs to be dealt with in the criminal justice system, not the mental health system. It is not a treatable mental illness. There are a real victims of their physical acts of sexual assault. It is rape of our most innocent and vulnerable members of society. Pedophilia should not be decriminalized or destigmatized any more than murder should be. Pedophiles should be incarcerated for life when convicted in order to protect the public. The guilty willfulness or mens rea (criminal mind) of these perpetrators satisfies the element of criminal responsiblitity and criminal intent in the legal system and should not be considered under the insanity defense.
I don’t think it’s natural for adults to be attracted to children for the purpuses of sex.It has to be a mental disorder. But I do think that sex with children is rape, because the child does’t know any different.
Criminal profiling texts describe only two sub-types of pedophiles that are actually primarily attracted to children – the rest are simply opportunistic offenders. None are legally insane though all my have some other issues therapy might help.
http://www1.csbsju.edu/uspp/CrimPsych/CPSG-6.htm
Of course, it’s not “natural for adults to be attracted to children for the purpuses of the sex act”—that would describe creatures of the lower animal kingdom. Contrariwise, people are to establish mental, spiritual, and empathetic and sympathetic connection, . . . Their monstrous personalities are in plain denial and rejection of their own humanity, and of ours, as easily—in a word, they are anti-social in the worst possible way.
I agree. These perverts don’t want a “relationship.” There’s no “relationship” in forcing sex on persons physically incapable of sexual pleasure (orgasms) and emotionally incapable of having an adult relationship. What a complete crock of crap.
Is it natural for one person to murder another? To wish to steal from another? I do not consider these to be normal behaviors but neither would I consider “stealing/murdering because I wanted to” to be a mental disorder.
Of course, it’s not “treatable”—and simply because, it’s volitional, . . . a choice, with intent and knowledge, . . .
The sad thing is that, our Society is to such extent as presently exists, unable to adequately defend herself against this evil, . . .
The tricky part is: how do you deal with them legally? If you were to propose a law that would eliminate these perverts, you’d have to set some kind of age limit. They’d counter any limit with hypotheticals. For instance, if the limit was 16, then is an 18 year old a pedophile if he sleeps with a 16 year old girl? Likewise, if a law was to place age brackets, say 10 years, then does a 50 year old man and 40 year old wife violate said bracket? There would be need to be some careful wording here. Any ideas?
Ideas?
Start with these two:
1) Mandatory Life Sentence for the luring/abduction of a child 12 and under…
Consider aggravating/mitagating factors like:
Were they unrelated strangers, trawling the neighborhood in a black window van, with puppies and toys, and did they use force or threats to transport/hide the kid after the snach? Or was it an uncle, divorced father etc. picking up a kid were there is some family “drama” and emotions/accusations are malicious or exaggerated.
Full-on Perv kidnappings are pretty obvious. Hammer them.
2) Mandatory Capital Punishment for the forceible rape of a child 12 and under.
Yeah, 13 to 17 are still kids, but the lower age makes the offense a clear-cut pre-meditated, malice aforethought, knowledge of guilt incontrovertable fact.
Plenty of really young children victimized every year with clear ‘black and white” incontrovertable evidence…
Start killing these Pervs in the really heinous cases first, like TODAY, and worry about the “gray areas” later.
As rational, self governing people, we have to accept the hard facts that we are GOING TO KILL SOME PEOPLE WITH OUR ADMINISTRATION SYSTEMS….It is absolutely unavoidable.
The choice is simply between killing the Perv NOW, or sacrificing an innocent child LATER. How many times does the “registered sex offender” have to lead us to the next shallow grave for us to realize this simple formula?
Once is more than enough to prove the theory.
Which is why I have ZERO Moral or Constitutional issues with Vigilante Justice finding and eliminating these KNOWN CONVICTED Pervs and their supporters/enablers. When “the system” knowingly prefers to sacrifice our children over the “rights” of CONVICTED, PROVEN child rapists, all obligations and loyalties to that “system” are null and void.
Period.
The only Obligation we have to anyone is 1000% Identification Certainty, and zero collateral damage.
I don’t think you understood what I was trying to say. I have no moral ambiguities here: hang the bastards. The point I was trying to make is that our laws have to be foolproof, lest that vigilante justice you mentioned becomes the only way to deal with the issue. Take for instance that 12 year old age limit you mentioned; do you convict a 13 year old who molests a 12 year old on the same charges? This is absolutely disgusting stuff but it’s problems like that that allow these freaks to stay out in the open (to say nothing of those weak-kneed peoples who don’t support the death penalty).
I do believe they have what you are talking about already. no quoting me on exactly where it states this, it may only be my state. But the age is 16, BUT 16-17 only can have sex with people less than 3 years older than themselves. so a 18 y/o can sleep with a 17 or a 16 and it’s ok. as long as both consenting of course. but a 22 y/o can’t sleep with a 17 y/o.
That IS the law as far as i know. Everything past that is fine, a 18 y/o can sleep with and married a 60 y/o. both are legal adults.
as for marrying a 16-17 y/o. i believe that is within 10 years of age, with parental permission of marriage.
If you wanted to talk about staying a lower age though, say 13 instead of 16, same rules should apply. 13-18 only within 3 years of age. i can kinda understand 13, cause in OLD (200 years ago+) days, you were married and had kids by 14-15. if you didnt start at 13, you wouldn’t get there. and a 16 y/o that is unmarried and had no kids was considered an old hag.
the truth is, in some ways, it is natural to look at younger cause they have more energy spending raising kids, and possibly higher chance of having kids. don’t know, no quoting. BUT, the point is, sex is about having kids. most boys and girls are “ready” by around 13. but below that, there is no way you could even come close to a way to make that understandable.
Rape is Rape. If they don’t know what is even happening to them, then it’s rape. there is no child who would willing agree to such a thing, their own body isn’t even giving them any signs of such things.
Point Being: Age laws! under 18 and over 16, within 3 years, over 18, who cares.
(P.S. The point of having kids at 13-15 was because every didn’t live that long. right now, we live long enough to see our grand kids and great grandkids. sometimes lucky for great-great-grandkids. BUT in the old days, it was the SAME! you were lucky to see your great grandkids, at the old age of 45. It’s basic proportional Math. Within our lifetime, we should have kids, they should have kids, and they should have kids. that is 2 full generations. it took 45 years roughly before, cause we lived 45 years before. it takes 60 years now, cause we live longer. we don’t have to rush.
I can’t agree with you more.
As the mother of a 10-year-old girl (now a teenager) who was raped by a convicted child rapist, my fury knows no bounds in reading this report. My husband and I hunted down the monster who destroyed our daughter’s childhood, reported him to police, cheered with glee as he was frog-marched to jail, demanded he be held without bail, and were on the front row at his trial. He was tried, convicted, and deported. Surprise, surprise — he was an illegal immigrant in the US for over 35 years raping kids in two states before he met up with our family. PEDOPHILES SHOULD NEVER BE FREE TO PRACTICE THEIR TYPE OF “LOVE”. God help us if that ever happens in the US.
Do not worry. It is very unlikely but if such behavior is legalized and victims such as yourself and your daughter have no legal recourse, other courses of action will be taken. It wouldnt take very many cases of vigilantism to reverse such an insane policy.
Yep, and once an individual is deported, he’ll never be seen in the USA again, right? Now, ignorant Libertarians are always jabbering cluelessly about the Founders and the Constitution. In 1789, when one presumes, the intention of the Founders would’ve been easy to determine, both sodomy and rape were punishable by death. In the case of rape of a child by a h*m*, it would be a good bet that the death penalty would’ve been imposed PDQ, if anyone even waited for a trial and verdict. The Founders were quite aware of the distinction between the working-out of legal process and justice. Or, as they used to say in the Holy Land, between the Letter of the Law and the Spirit of the Law. The Founders were also aware that blind adherence to the letter of the law is not justice, and may amount to injustice. This was a bad thing, BTW, for you modern shysters/finaglers/amoral scum. That incorrigible liberal, Thos Jefferson, did believe that the death penalty for rape ought to be tested by substituting castration. Ah, they were men in those days.
Navy Mom,
Awfully sorry for your experiences…
The Criminal Justice System does NOT care about “justice”…they are shysters that bill the taxpayer by the hour to defend scum, and the more scum, the more money to be made. They do NOT care about kids.
Rather than go through all that, we’ve got a sympathetic group of “friends” who will take care of the matter for us while we establish an Iron Clad Alibi.
And vice versa.
Semper Fi
don’t know if you will ever read this, but you know he was lucky he got deported. I know a lot of people in prison. they are rough, mean, and ruthless. BUT a LOT, and i mean a WHOLE LOT have families on the outside. some have kids, some have nephews and nieces, and being sent to prison for child rape, is most a death sentence, IF they are lucky. my bro’s ex-wife’s uncle was in prison for stealing cars, while drunk. he had a kid on the outside. he said in there, if they didnt kill you, they would beat you near to death each and every day. just to remind them of the innocence they stole from the world, and that their face would look as bad as the act they committed was to that child.
Trust me for sure, being put on a list of offenders is giving them a free pass compared. that is why every time i see someone get send to prison, i know (and all judges know all this) that it was so bad, that they decided to sentence him to death, without actually calling it that.
This makes me think of the story of Pandora’s Box but one without a single good item.
“This was not the first time this sort of advocacy has happened and it won’t be the last. The question now is what do we do to counter this?”
Pedophiles should be hanged. There, that’s simple enough. Hang them and I guarantee you that it will really reduce, if not get rid of, the problem. People should stop trying to analyze them and start hanging them. It has to be one of the worst crimes people can be guilty of.
One of the main purposes of the death penalty is to give a rapist or robber a strong incentive to spare his victim’s life. Applying the death penalty to rapists reverses that incentive since murdering the victim eliminates the main witness to the crime.
Well then, according to your logic, we would have tons more murderers because there would be no witnesses to the crime. Yet we do not. Murderers keep on murdering because they know that in most states they will not receive the death penalty. That is, assuming they ever get caught these days. So applying the death penalty to pedophiles may not end the problem, but it may at least discourage some of them from doing it, which is A LOT better than what is happening right now. Pedophiles keep committing these crimes because they not only know that the can mostly get away with it, but if they do get caught not much is going to happen to them (at best, they may spend a few years in jail for destroying a kid’s life). These are the worst form of predators, going after young weak kids. Even convicts in jail hate them, so you KNOW they are the lowest form of life there is. Nope, pedophiles, especially the ones who have committed multiple acts of assault, should be hanged. That would definitely send a message and you know you’d probably be on the right track if even convicts agree with you.
As to the effect of the death penalty I have to disagree. It is no deterrent to pedophiles because they are pure sociopaths. They actually see no wrong in anything they do and do not believe they will ever be caught. That is the nature of a sociopath.
As to your advocating the death penalty for them, I heartily agree. Not only would we be removing a monster from our midst, but we would be preventing many future ones. Pedophilia often begets future pedophiles in its victims.
Conditional on my agreement to hanging is that there be no drop.
Suthenboy wrote:
That’s fine. In the words of the most excellent “45 Long Colt”,
Works for me.
I’d really like to see an end to this “Convicts have a code of honor” garbage.
The convicts who beat up on child molesters are in most cases child molesters themselves; they’re just incarcerated for other crimes.
It’s not some code of honor. It’s projection.
WRONG. not everyone is f**ked in the head enough to want to sleep with kids. i know some people send to jail and prison cause they were stupid and thought stealing was the only way to provide for their family. a lot of times, the people in jails are there in one way or another cause of MONEY. they couldn’t pay a ticket and got arrested. they were too poor and stole, they needed it for something. they got into a wreck with no insurance. these things DO send you to jail, also, having a crazy spouse who, just to be a bitch, calls the police and says you beat them, just cause you didnt get a SECOND job to fuel their spending habits, on the other people she was sleeping with, while not working themselves.
All of these, can and mostly DO send you to jail, but have NOTHING to do with child molesting. THESE people, have FAMILY, and if they see someone who is charged with it, THESE people are the ones who beat them to death. you’re CONVICTS are most of the time normal people with a bad situation, and tried something stupid to fix it. but people who WANT to sleep with kids, that’s not a money problem, that’s not a situation. that is PURE Stupid, wrong, evil thinking, and from a psychologist student, i have learned we are all capable of thinking the same thoughts, and even without knowing it, sometimes our bodies may even have a second of attraction to something, not necessarily the child themselves, but something about them. BUT what makes us NORMAL is that we ignore, or repress, or we resist these thoughts. when people are “too weak willed” to do that, it’s cause they aren’t trying to not do them, or they are F**ked in the head. either way, these ARE the people that need removed from society. plain and simple.
You are 100% right Ship,
There really is no Death Penalty in America. Aside from a few in Texas every so often, its just not done in any numbers that would change a criminals behavior.
And you know, I DONT CARE about changing their behavior…
I care about eliminating threats.
Real, proven, undeniable threats, like paroled/released killers and molesters who go on to (guess what?) do it all over again.
How many times a year can we hear the same story, and not realize the incontroveribly GUILTY need to DIE?
Thanks Hitler. Life was such a wheel that no man could stand upon it for long. And it always, at the end, came round to the same place again.
One act, one penalty. For child rape? Organ banks. The above referenced individuals should all be volunteered for a little piece of immortality by being lightly killed then broken down for hearts, livers, kidneys etc. For the squemish think of it as “post” natal abortion.
I can’t deny a certain sympathy for your idea but I have some reservations.
Would you want to have an organ from a child rapist? Would you want to insist that someone in need of an organ accept an organ from a child rapist? What if the intended recipient were the victim of some form of sexual abuse? Could he/she refuse the organ then or would he/she be forced to wait longer for an organ (or even be pushed to the bottom of the list for refusing an organ)?
I read an article a few months ago about organ recipients who have had strange memories after their transplants. The memories were of things that they knew had never happened to them. But they were able to determine that the events HAD happened to the DONOR of the organ. I don’t remember many details but there was anecdotal evidence to suggest that maybe, just maybe, organs actually had some connection to memory. There is a possibility that in addition to their well-known functions, organs may serve as some kind of storage device for memories and that transplanting an organ may transfer some of the donors memories to the recipient of the organ.
Now, there is obviously a lot of research required to determine if there is any truth to this idea but let’s suppose for a moment that eventually a connection is found and kidneys, for example, turn out to have a previously unknown function of storing memories as well as cleaning blood. Would the recipient of a kidney from an executed child rapist then also remember the predatory acts of the rapist? Or even be inspired to imitate them? (If the memories are experienced by the kidney recipient with the same joy that the rapist felt them, you could even imagine the recipient copying those acts.)
I know this is pretty far out there – it could be a plot for a bad science fiction movie – but it bears investigation….
Actually, it’s already been the plot for a pretty good short sci-fi story. The plot follows our hero as he makes his escape from prison, before being sent to be executed. A merry chase follows, and he finally finds himself in a facility that stores massive quantities of organs, waiting for transplant. He destroys all he can, as the police finally catch up to him. He is now resigned to his fate, feeling, if he must be executed, he might as well have done something that really calls for execution.
His original crime? Running a stop sign.
You may think it trite, but that’s the road we go down if we start harvesting from criminals. We’ve already seen abuses when we harvest the labor of criminals. We’ve already seen abuses when there is profit to be made for simply filling prisons.
Don’t even START trying to tell me we won’t see horrific abuses if we make life extension available by harvesting spare parts from convicted criminals.
We must NEVER allow ANY hint of profit motive – for anybody, of any kind – to taint the judicial process.
We have enough of a mess as it it.
Mark, I agree.
I have no respect for a Judiciary or Prison that is a “for profit” enterprise.
Its about Moral Justice, and money contaminates and cheapens it.
“By what authority do you hold me in chaines?” You’d better be sworn, loyal, true believer serving our Republic, and not be some hireling of a private company, locking me in a cage because its just “a job”
I know most prison unions are corrupted make-work patronage machines, but we need to improve our standards, not admit defeat and farm the work out to a slightly less “expensive” form of moral bankruptcy.
While I rather like the idea of “salvaging” a child rapist into the organ banks, this is a bad idea because of the unintended consequences. Pedophiles will be forced to murder his victims in order to eliminate the witness. This is the same reason that rape is no longer a capital crime.
Absolutely correct.
Rape is no longer a capital crime b/c Alfred Kinsey testified that rape was simply a social situation gone bad. It wasn’t to keep the girl alive. The death rate has gone up since then, anyway.
Judith Reisman writes about this a great deal, if you’d like to google. It gives me nightmares.
Dennis Prager has a really long essay posted online about boundaried appetites, and non-boundaried appetites, and the consequences for society. It’s been one of the most useful articles I’ve ever read, in terms of thinking about these sort of things.
I’m not sure general population would be a death sentence, though. One policeman commented that there are enough child predators in prison now that they can form their own gang for protection. And that the usual “mysterious death” thing isn’t happening so much, now that all the criminals are lawyered up for free.
And, well, the rot can set in pretty far before anyone gets upset. There’s a theory that the red thread tied around a young Greek males wrist was not a good luck charm, but a way to signal that this particular young man had a good family and was off- limits to the “tutors” at the gymnasium. The girls, of course, were sequestered in their home.or sold to brothels. or thrown away. Oddly enough, isn’t that still the logic in that neck of the woods? Girls in burqas? And Princes vs sons of camel tenders in the desert, or dancing boys?
I’m not being blithe, here. My kids have had babysitters exactly twice in their lives.
Since the age of the Enlightenment, the beginning of the USA, society had attempted to deal with aberrant sexual behavior via religion, criminal law, and psychiatry (established a century later). Two key questions exist; what is wrong conduct, and what should be the sanctions, if any? From red light districts, to sodomy, to polygamy, to pedophilia, it has been an uneven history; we do not contend with “evil” (my general term) well. In the not too distant past, a marriage between races, or even a marriage between Christian denominations was condemned as “bad” (my general term). Once bright lines have blurred, “every thing goes”. Some say this is progress; others hold it is the terminal decay of our society.
A mile stone, for me, was passed when the American Psychiatric Association (APA) formed a Task Force of scientists to study homosexuality, and on the strength of its report, reversed a long standing position that homosexuality was a mental illness. The Task Force was dominated by active homosexuals; straight scientists were denied membership.
Modern courts have repeatedly struck down sexual axioms that have been enshrined in law by most societies for thousands of years, e.g. sodomy, gay marriage. Judges give zero weight to long standing social mores as a basis of law.
In recent years, we have been horrified by Catholic priests who were outed as pedophiles, and discovered a ten fold larger problem in our public schools.
The combined impact of the above, has been a plummeting respect for basic institutions, and leaders. Ordinary citizens will bolt their door to the pillars of our society, and hide their children. In a secular society, the only peaceful resolution to the conflict must come via the ballot, the revulsion factor.
A mile stone, for me, was passed when the American Psychiatric Association (APA) formed a Task Force of scientists to study homosexuality, and on the strength of its report, reversed a long standing position that homosexuality was a mental illness. The Task Force was dominated by active homosexuals; straight scientists were denied membership.
Can you provide any links that support this allegation? I’m not disputing what you’ve said. If it’s true, it’s truly heinous. But before citing it, I’d like to be 100% sure that it is supported by ironclad references.
This is an insightful response, in that it requests links to substantiate an incomprehensible “truly heinous” fact, which might drive a fundamental judgment about a profession. I note that nothing was asked about priests, or public school teachers, or judges which give zero weight to social mores.
Obviously my contribution is either false, or if true, not widely known.
But a few key words, e.g. “American Psychiatric Association Task Force Homosexuality membership deny” in a Google search can test my statement. I am not an expert in Psychiatry; claim no expertise in this field.
But I share the judgment that our professions have lost integrity, and thus legitimacy. If we can not rely on a doctor, priest, teacher, or judge to protect our loved ones, we have a problem.
Amazing!
I spent at least two hours doing exactly the google search you suggested, summarizing the first several of the search results and posting what I found and PJM has completely lost the entire post. And I made no copy of my remarks before I posted them.
I simply don’t have the time to repeat all the research and writing so I will summarize briefly. I regret to say that, in my opinion, you have not proven your remark that a stacked Task Force caused the APA (American Psychiatric Association) to revise the DSM in 1973 to remove homosexuality as a mental illness.
There WAS a Task Force which managed to bar members who were not gay or gay-friendly as you suggested but it operated in 2009 and was trying to settle the question about whether appropriate therapies had any prospect of making homsexuals into straight people. I think you conflated that Task Force with whatever machinations took place to get homosexuality “normalized” in 1973.
The last link I looked at – http://www.marriageresourcesforclergy.com/site/Articles/articles022.htm – came closest to confirming that there was indeed some hanky-panky involved in normalizing homosexuality but, unfortunately, the relevant link in Footnote 14 is mangled and can’t be followed.
Frankly, I suspect there IS proof that homosexuality was normalized in 1973 as a result of some kind of activist trickery as opposed to an informed concensus among the relevant members of the APA. I just haven’t found any proof of it yet.
If you have time, perhaps you can look at some more links in your own suggested Google search and see if you can find the smoking gun. Or maybe research the works of Satinover, the author cited in Footnote 14, who I believe must be Jeffrey Satinover, based on a quick Google search of “Satinover”. The Wikipedia article on him suggests that he is an expert in this issue and he would have been old enough to be involved in the dicussions in 1973. Perhaps he has some kind of tell-all book about how the normalization was accomplished….
If you find anything like that, please post back here. I would love to have some concrete proof that what you allege is true.
I would recommend looking at books published before 1990 or so to find this 1973 information. I read about it years ago, namely that the activists intimidated psychiatrists at a meeting being held that year until they relented. Oftentimes, as perspectives change on certain key issues, older books with pertinent information go out of print, disappear from library shelves and/or are deleted from sources. I wouldn’t assume the internet is comprehensive. Always go for hard copy books when doing sensitive research.
The link below should offer the basic information needed and plenty to pursue this further. But yes, in short militant homosexuals first pressured, then openly intimidated, then manipulated the APA until they got what they wanted. It’s why I said a decade ago when Peter Singer was making noises about “mainstreaming” bestiality and pedophilia that it would happen.
http://www.narth.com/docs/TheTrojanCouchSatinover.pdf
I’m not sure what the interracial marriage has to do with this. Also laws against sodomy include a man and wife performing oral sex on each other – certainly striking down laws against that don’t lead to pedophilia.
Cultural Marxism is the starting point here – the idea that society must be oppressive by nature so all our values destroyed. This is what leads people to sympathize with criminals and degenerates.
There’s one aspect to the whole situation that I find makes everything not so black and white as people would think. Rape is an atrocious crime, yes, and the rape of a minor even more awful – but when you discuss pedophilia, are you talking about the attraction, the thought? Are you trying to criminalize some form of thought? Pedophilia and child porn seems to be the only area where otherwise very pro-individual-rights people are willing to accept the notion of thought crimes, and I think that inconsistency is a sign that the issue needs to be re-thought through.
Maybe pedophiles who haven’t committed rape should be given therapy. Maybe it shouldn’t be a crime, but we should be much more strict about our rape laws (I’ve always thought we should figure out a way to work surgical castration into the rape punishments of our justice system – especially for repeat offenders). I don’t know. I do know that there’s also a problem assigning a strict age limit – especially at the late teens. Most of the history of the world has people (of both sexes, mind you) getting married and declared adults significantly before the age of 18, and the fact that sexualized, developed teenagers sext each other and others before the age of 18, but we still often apply the full force of our child porn and pedophilia laws for such behavior seems wrong.
“Maybe pedophiles who haven’t committed rape should be given therapy.”
I agree. Libertyship46 recommends rope-therapy, I recommend buckshot-therapy.
You do not understand the nature of sociopaths. There is no cure, there is no therapy. You may have more success attempting to convince a rattlesnake to stop preying on mice. I choose the rattlesnake as an example because, like the rattlesnake, the pedophile does not have the ability to feel empathy. Their hearts are just as cold.
For them, other people are simply objects to be used and manipulated. Their attempt to be ‘understood’ by society is simply manipulation. They have no understanding of how outrageous we find it because the minds of others are a complete mystery to them.
A sociopath may look like a person, but it is not. Nothing that works for people will work for them.
My God! A redneck philosopher!
I think you have put it all into a nice nutshell. I love it when people can discuss esoteric things naturally. And you are exactly right. One either has a degree of concern and respect for others, or one does not. That’s why prisons are not nice places: it’s the denizens. When we decided to “treat” criminals instead of simply beating raw fear into them, we lost the war. They only care for themselves, and their only remorse is that they got caught.
I have never seen this process successfully reversed. There’s a reason Britain used to hang you for stealing an apple. You live by society’s rules, or you die, because we can’t watch you and still do our work, and the work must be done.
Since then, all downhill, because of people with too much sympathy for criminals, and not enough for victims.
For me it’s the act. Though the thoughts disgust me, a person is, as far as I’m concerned, free to think what they will. The second they act on it, I will spring into action to protect my child. There is no other course for me.
Taoist,
“I’ve always thought we should figure out a way to work surgical castration into the rape punishments of our justice system – especially for repeat offenders”
I appreciate your spectacular naivete’ about the essence of pure evil.
You must be a nice guy, my kids are certainly safe with you.
Castration is not a solution. The false notion of “Chemical Castration”, (which large doses of Viagra can overide) and even actual PHYSICAL surgical catsration, will not change these monsters in the least.
It is a red herring, a false and worthless notion that WILL FAIL.
Because a Pedophile who’s “thing” doesnt work, or has been physically removed, will still go out to recruit and/or abduct little ones for the “group party” he will be a member of later tonight.
Some of them are, (or will have to be, due to missing “equipment”) sufficiently satisfied with WATCHING a child being raped by others….They can always participate by “inserting” things….they can (and quite often do) participate without “sex”, by choking, binding, and humiliating the child in a “group scene” while other “Braver, Alpha-type Pedophiles” have the actual mechanical acts of “penetration” sex with them.
Ever wonder who’s the Perv holding the camera in child porn?
Its the limp-dick who wants to, but cant “perform”
Dont forget simple pleasure derived from the torture and abuse of the “private parts” of their little victims is often a huge part of their “scene”, and need not require any “functioning equipment” on their part, as many, many, many of them have learned NOT to leave any DNA behind behind…they will often capture sadistic “non-penetration sex” episodes on video for masturbation viewing (and sale to others) later.
You see, the even the “castrated” (chemical or otherwise) can STILL participate in this horror. They will AT LEAST BE LARGE CONSUMERS of this kind of imagery, thus constantly driving the DEMAND for more.
These people are the most depraved and disgusting villains imaginable.
A low level child toucher is just the tip of an iceburg of revulsion beyond your comprehension.
Death is too good for them.
And none should ever live long enough to be a “repeat” offender.
Mr. Taylor, I apologize. I was not able to finish reading your article. Your writing is fine, I was simply too revolted by the subject.
It is interesting to hear so called BL/GLs talk about the objects of their desire. The emphasis there is on the word ‘objects’.
They desire understanding and empathy for themselves and a normalization of their behavior. They wish for an end to the ‘discrimination’ aimed at them. Nowhere in their discussions of this do you see them exhibit empathy for their victims. There is nothing in their language that indicates an understanding of children or a an emotional love for them. When they use the word love, they use it in the same way I do when I say ” I love sauce picante”. Their ‘love’ is simply for themselves; a perverted lust.
For pedophiles, children are objects to be used for their own gratification. They are sociopaths of the vilest kind. As anyone familiar with this level of sociopathy knows, short of a load of #4 buckshot, there is no cure.
Perhaps these sympathetic ‘mental health professionals’ deserve a harder look. What is their true motivation?
Just curious why # 4 shot?
12 Gauge triple ‘aught is my favorite for the two-legged varmints within spitting distance.
And slugs for the runners (out to 100 yards, with iron sights)
No fancy rifled barrel or optics needed!
In a 3″ shell you can get 41 pellets. #4 is large enough to break large bones. With the right choke, you can get at least half of those into a man-sized target at 50 yards.
Just remember; every shotgun is a law unto itself.
Test your loads, test your choke.
Ooops. I posted before I put my name on that. Its me Suthenboy.
The obvious truth to me here is, that should a pedophile attack my child, I will kill the attacker. I will spend my last days of freedom on earth finding every shred of evidence I can, and regardless of our system of laws and “good faith” and “justice” I will take it upon myself to destroy the attacker. This is what I call “right” and “good”. It is my duty as a parent and human being.
It is worth my freedom. I have no time for the meanderings of intellectuals to try to rationalize bad behavior. It’s crap and should be treated as such. Barring that, I have no desire to be anything other than my child’s protector, as dictated by mammalian instinct. No perverse law or finding by any court will sway me to the contrary.
#12 SG-1
Agree. Will take my chances with a jury.
Take him out, and take my chances with a jury?
Me too, at least until I’m convicted…
Then its “suicide by cop” right there in the courtroom, cause no way Im doing life for killing the scumbag.
Take the Judge and Prosecutor with me if I can.
I ask those that have commented, what if you had a child who grew up to be a pedophile themselves, would you change your opinion?
It’s a pity the general population confuse the word pedophile with rapist, they are two entirely different things.
not all rapists are pedophiles but sorry ALL PEDOPHILES are rapists as CHILDREN are not of the age of consent. Therefore the molestation or worse is not and cannot be consentusal, even if they seem to have participated willingly, most have been cajoled, enticed or blackmailed. Pedophiles are sneaky and manipulative, conning the parentsor otrhers to get to their prey who they carefully nurture into their orbit and control.
And if my own child turned out to be a criminal of any sort, I would still love them, but would also not stand in the way of them being punished for doing wrong.In fact, I would turn them in myself, if I found them doing this heineous crime. I would advocate they take their punishment.
Your understanding is predictable and follows the norm of what society would say today. Please understand this though, there are countless pedophiles that have the attraction to minors but do not act on the urges. Most pedophiles actually have a stronger emotional attraction to the child than what is sexual.
So what do you call a pedophile that never acts on their desires? Are they still a rapist? There are many pedophiles who have lived and are amongst us that live this tale.
Name three pedophiles who haven’t acted on their urges. The B4U-ACT leadership all interacted with each other in online forums dedicated to promoting child sexual exploitation. The founder was a convected sex offender – Richard Kramer frequented a forum that was distributing child porn created by the members. Tell me of these mythical pedophiles who have not acted in some way on their urges.
So does this mean every homosexual is a rapist too? It’s the same thing, it’s a sexual orientation but it does not mean you go around raping everyone.
Your failing to grasp the concept because you have a warped view on pedophiles fed to you by media which report pedophiles who actually commit the crimes. Pedophiles have been tarnished by the actions of their minorities. Despite this I understand why you express the views you hold.
Some people here don’t understand what pedophiles go through (those that decide against acting on urges). They have to come to terms that they will never have a fulfilling relationship and so won’t share love in their life spans because what they desire is against the law and their own morals. On top of that they know everyone of the general public considers them worse than murderers yet they haven’t even committed any offense yet. How is any person able to achieve self acceptance in this situation just because of their genetic makeup making them think different from others.
It’s quite a sad story and it’s these reasons why B4U-act wants to set itself up. Try and put yourselves in the shoes of a pedophile and understand what these people have to go through. Remember I’m talking about pedophiles here and not pedophile rapists! Two different things.
And no – homosexuals having sex with other willing homosexuals isn’t the same as adults having sex with children. Outrageous.
Hey buddy!
Why dont you come on down to Louisiana?
Earlier in the thread someone asked me “why #4 buck?”……perhaps we could provide a more convincing answer for them than my former ramblings.
Ancestor,
No sir, some things are “thicker” than blood or family…
They are sometimes called “principals”
No son of mine will ever Burn a Cross on anyones lawn, ever.
To do so would result in severe bodily harm from me, and full prosecution from the law, with my full assistance. Period, end of story.
Neither shall any son of mine support enemy combatants (talaban, Hamas, Viet Cong) with arms, rob a bank, take hostages, beat and/or rape a woman, or sell drugs. These are non-negotiable, do not pass “go”, line in the sand absolutes that will quite possibly cost them their life (by my very hand) or at a MINIMUM, cause me to pursue WITH VIGOR, their full and permanent incarceration, while simultaneously ending all acknowledgment of their existence, forever.
They know this:
There are some unacceptable behaviors are simply game-ending, no exceptions, period.
It never occurred to me I would need to consider “child rapist” to that category.
Consider it done.
Next stupid question?
You appear to of answered a different question to what I intended. I stated pedophile not child rapist otherwise I would totally agree with you. Being a pedophile is not a crime, carrying out the desires of what is a child rapist is though.
No one just decides to be a pedophile I can assure you of that, it’s something your born with unfortunately so any upbringing matters don’t seem fit here.
I’ll try to clarify:
“They know this:
There are some unacceptable behaviors (INSERT: “and desires”) that are simply game-ending, no exceptions, period.”
Am I clear now?
Of course I understand but as I said that was not the question I asked.
To put it more clear:
“What if your child was a pedophile but not a child rapist/molester?”
This article is packed with lies.
First of all, the intention was not to “normalize pedophilia” it was to provide accurate information about pedophilia, which nowadays is sadly lacking in “scientific” discourse.
“The foundation of the symposium was B4U-ACT’s position that the DSM should be based on accurate information about people in the general population. It should be “sensitive to the needs of clinicians and their patients” (as advocated by the APA). Minor-attracted people should be involved in its revision (also advocated by the APA). ”
B4UACT does not help or support child molesters: it provides pedophiles (not child molesters) an enviroment where they can deal with their feelings of “anxiety, depression, anger, or other factors either unrelated to your sexuality or resulting from society’s stereotypes and reactions to your sexual feelings”
“In other words, Breslow wants gays to accept raping children as part of “queer” identity and any who don’t are racist, sexist homophobes. For a group that claims they want to help “minor attracted adults” get the help they need to deal with their feelings in a healthy way, this seems like an odd stance to support. ”
You are intentionally TWISTING WORDS to make people said something they didnt said. Breslow never defended child molesters. He defended the idea that having an unusual sexual attraction does not necesarily mean having a “sickness”. From his blog:
“Although I obviously do not condone abuse, rape, molestation and intimate partner violence, I find the immediate connection between the sexual desire for youth and its pathologization, internalization and criminalization to be problematic.”
“There are people who claim the push to normalize the sexual exploitation of children is a hidden current underneath various “liberal” movements and attitudes, but that’s not true. The push to normalize pedophilia has been open and visible for decades, but has been ignored by mainstream commenters who underestimated this fringe movement’s reach and organization.”
Yet again you are twisting words. No one wants to make adult-child sex legal. De-stigmatize pedophilia does not mean make adult.child sex legal. It means helping people who have an attraction to children but would never act on it:
http://www.b4uact.org/NotOne.pps
Sadly, you are mistaken. You are giving this organization too much credit. They say one thing in the public and something else among themselves. Child advocates Matt Barber, Vice President of Liberty Counsel Action, and Dr. Judith Reisman, a visiting law professor at Liberty University School of Law, attended the conference hosted by this group. Read their notes to see what these people really think:
http://www.catholicleague.org/images/upload/image_201108224601.pdf
He’s not “mistaken” he’s a member of their little group. Even the conference presentations were geared around the theme of normalizing pedophilia. B4U-ACT leaders have stated openly that they don’t think pedophiles are sick and need therapy. The people claiming different being sent from a certain pro-pedophile forum.
Judith Reisman? The one who cannot tell the difference between a pedophile and a child molester? She is the one you are giving credit to? I’m sorry, but asking such an ignorant person about pedophilia would be like asking a nazi about jewish people.
Luckily I provded you with the words of actual B4U-ACT members so you can see them first hand. Don’t take anyone’s word for it – take the words they say to each other when they think no one is watching.
“like asking a nazi about jewish people”
FYI, the Nazi knew a whole lot about Jewish people…
Enough to identify, capture, and kill 3/4 of them in europe, half of them in the world.
Find another metaphor that fits your argument
oh thats right, youre simply WRONG, arent you.
Hold on, “Dr Richard Kramer” was a member of boylover.net where he was soliciting pedophiles? Isn’t this the same boylover.net that was recently closed after an international pedophile bust? As I recall there were a lot of children rescued from the sexual abuse they were suffering including being used for the production of child pornography which the forum was used to help distribute. Kramer really gets around doesn’t he? Perhaps that is why he has now appointed another pedophile to make his comments for him on BoyChat – the internets largest pro child sexual abuse website.
Actually the organization does support child molesters and was founded by an unrepentant one. Michael Melsheimer – after being convicted for crimes against children – and after being “treated” by Fred Berlin – joined a Nambla member in Thailand who was running a “boy bar” Michael called it his paradise.
These people are not sick. They are evil. Evil cannot be cured.
I do not care if someone is merely attracted to young people. I care about actions. After all, I am attracted to large piles of money. I do not take any large piles that do not belong to me. Funny how that refusal to act on an attraction tends to keep me out of prison.
I have read that people who are sexually abused as children tend to become adults who sexually abuse children. Therefore the execution of child molesters would tend to “cure” the molester but also prevent future molestations. Now I would also like to see each death penalty get one, and only one appeal after conviction, along with the precess being expedited. Say all appeals finished within six months, with execution being public. I submit that this would make for a decided drop in the crime rate.
As for those who think that these criminals would simply dispose of the victims, well, they already do. Ask any LEO about the “clock” in child abductions. Pretty much after 24 hours we’re looking for the victim’s body, not a live child.
Wait, stop, hold on:
Be clear on what statistics mean. The percentage of abused who go on to abuse is very small but is much larger than the percentage of non-abused who abuse. So the small population of abusers is overwhelmingly made up of abused.
Put another way, if I learned that someone did to a child what was done to me, I’d kill the SOB, and not with yer #4 whatever: I’m using rusty scissors..
Do not further injure the majority of survivors.
I apologize, because I dont know the exact numbers.
You are hitting at the heart of the matter, the character of individuals, victims or not.
Rusty scissors are a good choice, but you vastly underestimate the potential of #4 buck.
I used to work with Level III sex offenders (at a homeless shelter here), most of them having served long jail sentences for pedophilic rape.
Suthenboy got it precisely correct: “You do not understand the nature of sociopaths. There is no cure, there is no therapy.” Yes, and I never met a single one who was repentant either.
You are using a sample of convicted rapists to talk about all pedophiles? Cant you see how insane that is? Do you think that a sample of rapists are a faithful sample of all the pedophiles who protect children and would never harm one? Do you think that what you could find about CONVICTED RAPISTS is relevant when we are talking about NORMAL PEOPLE who havent raped anyone and just have a different sexual attraction (pedophilia)? Really, you are talking about rapists. We are talking about pedophiles.
Mo, I am speaking of Pedophiles, whether they have raped or not. Nor am I speaking of one here and one there. I have many years experience in this, and have dealt with hundreds if not thousands of them.
Can you say the same?
The recidivism rate with these Pedophiles approaches 100%. 100%, Sir. I dealt with people whose initial occurrence was, for example, in 1972, with multiple occurrences, the latest being last year.
Do not tell me of some vague concept of people “struggling” with this. They are predators. I cannot emphasize that enough. They delight in this, revel in it, don’t give a Rat’s ass about controlling it, save to maintain appearances. Once a Pedophile, always a Pedophile.
Technically, pedophilia is the attraction itself and child molester or pederast is referring to someone who has acted on his/her tendency.
I stand corrected then. Thank you for the clarification.
What’s weird is that obviously Mo knows the difference but rather than clarify earlier on, he just ranted. It’s like he wanted to be the victim or something.
I should add – to clarify myself – when I stated that I dealt with these people, some of whom have NOT been incarcerated, they had still acted out on their warped desires. Usually via disseminating pornographic material to minors repeatedly, but not taking the final step to rape.
“your possible ancestor” also responded this way. This is common among nasty types like this; they try very hard to get themselves in a position of “I’M the victim” and warp it until they can “justify” their evil to themselves. This was step 1, so it was slight, but there it was.
Suthenboy rocks.
Pink Swastika… redux..
you all know it.. you all can feel it..
it can happen here.. it’s the way to create people who do the evils you can’t imagine.. like islam and the holy pederasty..
screwing children creates evil.. perfect for liquidating enemies..
If you are a Lib and you don’t believe in moral absolutes then, of course, pedophilia – I’m sorry, minor attractedness – is perfectly natural. In the absence of absolute Truth as defined by God, why, who are we to judge? Children need lovin too…
I hardly want to stigmatize people just on what they are tempted to do. Resisting temptation is an important part of virtue. So if they have at all times in their lives, never acted on their attraction, I think we should welcome them to come forward and get help.
However, the blurring the lines thing that happened at this symposium, having read it from in the pro-pedophilic media press that’s going on at right-wing blogs that are discussing this right now, is NOT the therapy they need. They don’t need to hear how being attracted to a girl who hit puberty early, who has nearly full-formed breasts cannot be considered the same thing as going after an older pre-pubescent girl, and so therefore should not be classified as pre-pub attraction. (I refer you to “kaltes” manning his/her post and attempting to “correct the record” at Hot Air)
I guess I can see a slight point that it is slightly less pervy–but it pervy all the same!
Therapy for these people should be focused on redirecting their attractions and affections to more suitable targets. Adjusting them to the idea that adults are the suitable objects of love, affection and attraction, and that sex is supposed to go with companionship. As long as the afflicted remain in that group that does not act on their attraction, if it takes 10-20 years, I’m fine with them fighting through it and I pity their road. If in the closed doors of a session the doctor wants to praise a guy for graduating from pre-pub girls to early-pub girls, that’s fine. But we shouldn’t be changing how “icky” it makes people feel.
Therapists think nothing of working on the desire with overeaters. They don’t feel that they need to hold up the idea that desire for food is a “sliding scale” and that some people can eat more than others, which is true but irrelevant for trying to get on particular person who is food-obsessed to stop thinking about food. The extra-normal desire is part of the problem.
Nobody defends child rape, any more than adult rape. However, the law presently prohibits consensual sexual contact between children and adults, violating the rights of both. Pedophiles are neither mentally ill, nor criminals. They are ordinary, good people. Pedophilia *IS* normal already; the law just denies this reality.
Clearly you are one of the perves that everyone on here has been speaking of.
“Nobody defends child rape, any more than adult rape. However, the law presently prohibits consensual sexual contact between children and adults, violating the rights of both. Pedophiles are neither mentally ill, nor criminals. They are ordinary, good people. Pedophilia *IS* normal already; the law just denies this reality.”
I can’t believe you would sit there and state that a child would just want to have sex or interact sexually with a adult and that their rights are being violated. The work and goal of a pedophile is to twist and manipulate the child into thinking sex or sex acts are ok. Common man, a child is a child. These sick aholes do not need to be having sex or performing anything sexual with children. A child needs to be just worrying about being a child. Not whether their life will be ruined because some degenerate wanted to fulfill their wildest desire to take the innocence of a child.
I’m sure you will reply back with some other ignorant, sick reply attempting to justify their (possibly by the sounds of it your’s too) cause.
The best way to deal with a drain on society is to eliminate it. Buck shot, rope, 45 whatever it may be but just eliminate it. Then eventually children can once again play in the streets without being lured into some chomo’s van and have their life ruined.
I couldnt agree with you more
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