Are Some Tea Partiers Selling Out to the GOP?
Have the tea parties and some of their leaders sold out to the GOP too soon in the cycle of their power?
Have they succumbed to publicity and power at the risk of hurting their own cause? Could they be draining their good will and momentum before 2010 even starts?
Rasmussen has recently reported that, were the tea party movement to be a third party, they would do well according to a generic ballot. This must be sober reading for states that have a Republican Party which differs little from the Democrats, either in reality or in the minds of independents:
Among voters not affiliated with either major party, the Tea Party comes out on top. Thirty-three percent prefer the Tea Party candidate, and 30% are undecided. Twenty-five percent would vote for a Democrat, and just 12% prefer the GOP.
Meanwhile, tea parties in various parts of the country are siding with the Tea Party Express, which is a production of a Republican-leaning PAC and thus very partisan. These tea parties and their leaders understand, quite correctly, that association with the Tea Party Express and their D.C.-based PAC provides easier publicity. Fox News has gone to groups like Tea Party Express when covering the tea parties — ignoring, for the most part, tea party groups that remain vehemently independent.
Greta van Susteren and Fox News had an embed in the Tea Party Express trek. They didn’t seem aware they were working with an outfit that was anything but “grassroots.” This makes it very hard for nonpartisan tea parties to get positive media coverage. And of course, there are Fox “personalities” who have piggybacked the tea party movement to popularity and ratings. At least one seems to think the entire concept of a tea party movement was inspired by him (instead of Rick Santelli).
Only interviewing people at a major rally in a major city neglects the millions of people across the country who toil every day to end our slide towards socialism.
Sooner or later the eagle has to land.
Pick a party Mr. Dodge.
That or pack up and get out of Dodge before the Democrats blow up your barn.
“Rasmussen has recently reported that, were the tea party movement to be a third party, they would do well according to a generic ballot.”
A major third party effort would prove disastrous. It is time to put a stop to this nonsense here and now. An exception should be made only in rare cases. Normally we must be aligned with the Republican Party. Our best bet is to challenge the GOP “moderates” in the primaries. We can wrest control from them by defeating their candidates and substituting our own for the general election. Pragmatically speaking, we will continue to have a love/hate relationship with the wishy-washy Republicans. However, they will more often than not reluctantly follow our leadership. Economic issues are their first concern. They are increasingly less trusting of Democratic Party candidates regarding the pocketbook issues.
This was to be expected. Tea Partiers have one of two choices:
1. Remain independent, run their own candidates.
2. Take over the Republicans.
Option 1 sounds best. the republican party offers nothing of value to anyone. Ignored, it will just fade away.
The GOP has got to go. . .They are doing little or nothing to stop the progress of the oblammo/demo legislative juggernaut, but instead talk of “compromise”. The time for that is over.The gop is corrupt and as rotten as the democrap party. The Tea Party Movement must return to its roots or die. The only solution may be to “take it to the streets”. . .I again await the squeals of the demo/soros shills. . .
Hooray for the TEA Party! The dems brought us our first socialist president and the repubs are regrouping. Neither party can win without us. 2010 and 2012 are going to be exciting election years.
Folks are just plain tired of unresponsive officials that ignore the will of the people. The current GOP elites can try to capitalize on this, but any candidate needs to know that the time for fooling the public is over. We’re watching your actions very closely and if you continue to defy the wishes of middle America, you’ll be turned out of office as soon as possible.
No more excuses.
This article seems a bit confused.
It seems to say tea party groups around the country are very influential…as long as they don’t have an office in Washington, D.C..
Well: just where else is that “influence” supposed to be properly exercised in this country, dear author?!
The first few commenters also seemed to have picked up on this. I see nothing wrong with larger groups, such as FreedomWorks, being part of the mix.
I tend to agree with comment #2, in that a third party at this time would only benefit Obama/Sozi-Dems.
I agree with Cris,
Better to be a permanent minority than support a Republican party, that has never once, including Regan lived up to the principles of secure borders, fiscal conservatism, and shrinking government. They claim to be conservatives because they talk about “slowing the growth” of government. They promise more police and more prisons, but never, ever, more liberty. There are elements in the Republican party that want to control the lives of all citizens just as much as the socialists do.
If you continue to vote for the “lessor of two evils” the only thing you ensure is the continued slide of the entire political spectrum further and further toward the side of evil.
Let them join us.
The political life of the United States revolves around the Electoral College. The presidential candidate with the most electoral votes wins the contest. They could hypothetically have vastly more individual votes—but that does not make a bit of difference. Thus, we are committed to a two party system whether we like it or not. This harsh reality cannot be ignored simply because one is embittered by the process. Nobody should have promised you Utopia. It’s often a messy world where we must do our less than perfect best.
A third party would be a mistake of gigantic proportions. If Conservatives haven’t learned by this time that they have to stick together to beat the leftists in this country, they will deserve what they get: Defeat. This wrangling, which you can be assured will be fodder for the media, will come back to haunt them. And by the way, the Republican party doesn’t need to be dissolved, it just needs to come back to its roots. Simply throw the RINOS out!
I think there is another way. I don’t think the Tea Partiers have to sell out to the GOP. Why not instead be like the far left loonies who pulled the Democrat party so far to the left that we got people like Reid, Pelosi and Obama running our country into the ground? I say let the Tea Partiers take the far-right position and pull the GOP back to the right and away from the “no-stones” Republicans and RINOs we have now. If we can continue to show that our positions bring voters to the polls, like in the recent elections in VA, NJ, and NY, conservatives can take this country and the GOP back!
Stay independent, work for the Conservative Candidate and make the Candidate work for your vote.
Excellent article! Thank you!
Tea Party Express is redolent of Bozo MacCain, the 73 year old adolescent trust fund baby who put a headstone on the moribund GOP. Bad choice of name.
The GOP still will raise all the money and co-opt grass roots movements.
So forget it. Gangster government is here forever. Thanks, John.
Tea Partiers, Libertarians, Bull Moose. These outcry idealist movements either on the right, or the left, are far from new. Should they start a new party or take over the Republicans? I say no, but then, Im neither T party or Republican…I think they are better off remaining as part of the Republicans. The ADA (on the left) has been part of the Dems for years with some disagreements, but remain as part with decent results. Although 2008 was not a great year, I really do not believe the Neo Cons are finished in the Republican party just yet. And I believe the Cons are the silent majority, not the loudest. In the bitter end, they need each other. If..they want to lead again…..and they do want to lead again dont they? Good Luck to them !
If the GOP continues to allow the far right and religion to run them, then they are running the same risk as the Dems. The GOP dosnt understand that the Tea Partyers are not happy with the far right either. The tea Party movement is tired of the established Far right and far left, they wan more reasonable people in power. Not ideologues from either party! Thats my 2c on it all.
And the GOP using strong arm tactics is just going to infuriate the base of the Tea party movement even more.
Benjamin Franklin “We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.” Sad but true. The more things change the more they stay the same.
The relationship between the Tea Partiers and the Republicans is more nuanced. Witness what is happening in Florida where Rubio is the de facto Tea Party candidate and what happened in NY23 where Hoffmann served that role. Yes, the Republican establishment will try to manipulate the Tea Partiers but the reverse is true also. Further, the Republican manipulation will be obvious and resented by the Tea Partiers and therefore often self defeating. The Republican establishment won’t like the Tea Partiers involvement in what they think of as Republican affairs, but they can’t say anything against the Tea Party people lest they lose their credibility with the Tea Party movement.
Justal: “There are elements in the Republican party that want to control the lives of all citizens just as much as the socialists do.”
well said!!
This is what i was referring to in my last post. The far right and far left want to tell us how to live. The far right by saying no abortion, no to stem cell research, ect..
And the GOP DOSNT GET IT!! Several posts here even seem to confirm this, with we conservatives must stick with the GOP. I would rather go down at least trying to stop both parties from telling me how to live than continue with more GOPers saying how i must live.
Folks, the two-party system is encoded into the election laws from Washington all the way down to county clerks, and “doing well” isn’t the goal. Winning elections is the goal.
The question is whether you want to win elections or not. Three party election polls show Tea Partiers “doing well” — and eking out a tiny plurality, or losing, even though the total vote against the Democrats is 67 percent.
The question is whether you want to win elections or not
The perfect is the enemy of the good.
I didn’t realize until now just how threatening it is to some to have a party of the American people mobilizing. Tea Partiers have that in common with Sarah. Those with the most to lose want us to go away. We’re not. We have the most to gain. It’s not called money, power or prestige. It’s called America.
9. Never mistake the two party system for the current two major parties. What it does mean is that the only stable situation (that is, the situation that will prevail after a few election cycles) is for a third party to either die out or supplant a major party. It’s been a long time since a major party has been supplanted, but it can be done.
Whats the point of “winning” elections when you have a GOP that still wont listen to the Tea party people and STILL tries to tell people how to live from the far right.
Really its about religion on the far right. I am christian but think it needs to stay OUT of the GOP and gov, thats what churches are for, to guide people in religious matters. Dont like abortion, then dont have it and teach through the churches thats its bad, same for drinking, stem cell research, ect…
You dont like the socialism of today hows this: Prohibition, no gambling(except when gov can make money on it), no booze sales on sundays(still a law in parts), no to gov funded stem cell research, most of these laws are really based on religion and come from the right. Again, gov tell us how to live our lives according to some believe system, be it Left or right.
Obama sucks…..but so did Bush…..if you only have these 2 parties(as they stand) then we are doomed…so let it fail….
Sounds extreme…but the status quo isnt working for many of us. I still hope we can have “real” change that brings power back to the people.
If the GOP wakes up then maybe we have a chance…i dont see much waking up however…
Leigh above (#5) has it not quite right about the Dems bringing us the first socialist president. That dishonor belongs almost entirely to that insufferable media puppet, John McCain. I’ll say it again, no hero ever lost so much of his manhood, and his nomination proves that the Republicans are playing games with our future. Reminds me of a rich, supposedly right-wing pundit here in Ct who fenced with the left for a living and then suited up in black tie to hobnob with those cruds at “gala” events in the City.
Some womanish boob was just on CNBC arguing with Ron Paul about in-depth auditing of the Fed. With senators like him, we can kiss the Republic and our freedoms good-bye. Someone on this site hit the nail on the head, observing the Republicans are “playing parliamentarian games,” which about summarizes their effectiveness. The Congressional leadership and this administration–really bad people with bad intentions–are marching our children into slavery, and the Republicans find nothing unnatural hobnobbing with them after hours at black tie events. Some patriots!
I’m annoyed by RINOs as much as the next conservative, but I’ve believed all along that the purpose of Tea Party movement should be to influence and take over the direction of the Republican Party, not destroy it.
Trying to support a third party candidate is sheer suicide. For those purists who think that by allowing leftist Dems to win in the hope that people will see how bad they are…forget it. Look how much damage Obama has been able to do in just a few months time. Even if they pass only a watered down health care bill, they will have established the framework which will be difficult to undo. Same with climate change, terrorism, and every other insanity they propose.
Ross Perot was very popular for the disaffected in the center right and by taking 16% or (19?) of the vote away from George H.W. Bush, Perot elected Bill Clinton. Just as Ralph Nader has helped Republicans by draining 3-5% of the vote from Democrats.
Tea Party activists need to use their influence to get the right kind of conservatives nominated in the Republican Party then run united campaigns against the Democrats. We won’t get our way every time, but that’s reality.
And while I’m at it, I am so sick of everyone calling the Democrats the “Democratic” party. They are anything BUT democratic. Let’s try to get past this bit of Orwellian double-speak by using the term “Democrat” Party.
Non-partisanship works all the way to the ballot box, where [whether one likes it or not], a partisan outcome will always result.
I don’t think anyone is proposing to start a national third party. However, in some places the Dems & the Republicans are as socialist as each other so there needs to be another force to change things. Working from within in very hard and takes a rather long time.
Tea parties work best if they are non-partisan. Whatever party has a candidate that holds to their principles gets their support.
After enjoying the glow of tea parties (esp. 9-12) reality must set in. We all have to pull a lever in November. I dropped everything and travelled to NY23 and experienced something unique. A man, and followers who believed in principles and all working for that common goal… And he came up just short. (ACORN was pulling college kids out of their dorms on election day.) We are in the fight for our lives and to give up on values and virtues now would be disastrous. But this is politics, and if we ARE grassroots (little green shoots) then the harden politicians are the big sequoias. I just heard rumblings of Palin (Perry) vs Armey (Kay Bailey Hutchison) so get out of the playpen and pick a true conservative candidate. And I LIKE Freedomworks. sigh…
Just when it looked like there might be a halfway decent chance to get things under control with our elected representatives along comes good old Zeke with one leg outside of his trousers and the other stuffed down the wrong side backwards.
Incredibly, I am seeing a bunch of supposedly conservative pundits stand in the middle of the room with their fists clenched, gritting their teeth and holding their breath until their face is blood red and they poop in their pants rather than simply making up their beds, eating breakfast and going off to school. Amazing; just like spoiled rotten Doctor Spock generation children do things everywhere.
Maybe the tea party organizers should make up their own set of Roberts Rules of Order? A fixed, firm set of guidelines that stipulates who is permitted to role around in the green grass of local courthouse lawns and those who have been socially sanctioned and authorized by the grand tea bag wizards on the mountain tops to mingle and rally amongst the muck, mud and hardcore of downtown Washington, DC.
Back to you Brad, it looks like they are stone dead now!
Most politicians change. Like the wind. And that is not all terrible. It can be used, too.
The Tea Partiers should not give up working within the system so quickly. There is a lot of breathing room in the Party, and if the concern is being subsumed by party activists — then organize and learn to play the game on the inside. TPE is a concern, but also a learning experience. If all you learn is to walk out the door, you’ve lost.
At the very least, make appointments and start talking to your elected officials. Until you do that, you don’t know what type of power you might have. Don’t make your first meeting your last one. Show up. They have to listen.
And Dave Thompson is right. The electoral college puts the screw to third parties too much — all they can do is play spoiler. Remember what Ralph Nader did to Al Gore. Obama’s record was arguably as radical, or more radical, than Nader’s, but he was on the inside (and now, inside, far less). Just remember that.
Yes, David Thompson is right. We can fight for that third candidate in primaries. but, ultimately we MUST TAKE BACK the GOP. The RINOS must GO AWAY.
Today’s credit crisis has been a ticking time bomb since Jimmy Carter’s BS at HUD, then Regan did nothing, Bush41 did nothing, Bush43 issued a statement basically saying hey we should look into this, but when Franks said no he shut up and did nothing. IF anyone of these had spoken to the nation about this on a weekly basis, how long would it have taken to get it fixed??? When a problem is seen it should be shouted from the mountain tops each dawn instead of some CYA letter like McCain and his cronies wrote in the Senate.
Kerry promised the biggest expansion in so called “entitlements” with drugs for medicare, but Bush 43 actually did it. Bush bailed out his buddies who owned most of GMAC and Chrysler and McCain thought it was a great idea, just like Obama did. Did McCain try to stop TARP? Did McCain try to stop socialist health care or merely amend it? Kerry and McCain want to throw open the borders, Bush 43 tried and Regan actually granted an amnesty to get the whole mess started. Global warming disciples: Gore, Kerry, Bush 43, McCain. If McCain had won we would be exactly where we are today except perhaps with regards to Afghanistan.
So to those who so feverishly defend the “status qua” of the two party system, please, please tell me who the second party is because the Republicrat party is the only one I see out there.
The GOP had better open their eyes because rather than we the base working to change it, it had damned sure better change to keep the base.
Political parties are private organizations that run the show. They actively set out to kill off any 3rd party any way they can. Both have teams of lawyers just waiting to clog the courts with technicalities to keep others off the ballots.
Americans need to start taking back the process. Stop financial support. Stop voting the party line. Start understanding the issues and how those who want you vote feel about them. Start being active in local and state politics. Start going to meetings. Do more then just showing up to vote.
Until this government for , of and by the people has more involvement from the people we will get closer and closer to statist totalitarianism.
As a Democrat I support the “tea party” movement wholeheartedly.
The more they alienate the middle and the more they purge the heretics, the more likely the Democrats are to stay in power.
Burn the heretic,
Kill the mutant,
Purge the unclean.
Local and national GOP leaders have made attempts to co-opt the tea party movement as their own. Some have succeeded.
LOL. This is like wondering if Apple has anything to do with the popularity of Ipods.
“Working from within in very hard and takes a rather long time.”
Life sucks and then you die. Did I promise you a rose garden? Human beings are innately lazy. We prefer to find a way to effortlessly respond life’s challenges. Sorry, but this does not always work. We have no choice but to spend the money and time to work within the Republican Party.
Ignore anything from any media outlet that says the Tea Party should run as a third party. This is how you will blow the 2010 elections. Look, I went to the Tea Parties and I agree with much of what they stand for. I too am disgusted with the RINO’s in the Repub party but if we split the right’s vote we guarantee a Dem shoo in next year. Get smart and realize that you are being played. Instead of a third party why not have those closely affiliated with the Tea Party movement run as Republicans? That makes more sense then blowing our biggest chance to oust these Dems next yr and in 2012. Think about it, in whose best interest is it to split the right’s vote and who is interested in advancing that agenda? Let’s not blow this!
Well, I guess if a third (Tea) party would mean a total Democratic takeover of America and thus the destruction of our nation…
…then it’s time for all you RNC shills to knuckle under and vote Tea Party. If you love your country and are patriotic, that is.
What? Wasn’t that what you were thinking about us?
Mr. Dodge, you need to stop and THINK! The fact is that we have two major parties in this country, and ONE OF THEM IS GOING TO WIN IN NATIONAL ELECTIONS! The tea parties need to learn to work with the Republicans, just as the Republicans need to learn to work with the tea parties. Knock off the in-fighting, and knock off the attempts to find some kind of utopian “pure” candidates! This is the real world, and the objective is to guide candidates that can win elections. There is plenty of room to do that in local elections and in Washington. If you don’t want to play with the DC crowd, then focus on your local elections, but don’t destroy potentially productive alliances that others are forming just because you don’t like the way they are going about achieving their objectives. Your short-sidedness will only end up alienating the majority of people that you want and need to attract in order to change the direction of this country, and upi can only change the direction by WINNING ELECTIONS!!
David @ #1 – Correct. Those who identify as independent, like myself, are going to have to, temporarily, accept RINO’s if were are to stop the mad spiral downward. A third party is not viable right now. You Democrat trolls should not be so smug. You have lost a lot of firm Dems forever. They may never indentify Republican. I don’t care. I will never identify Republican ever again. The subset you need to be worried about is conservative/libertarian. That is the group that is growing. RINO’s will eventually be weeded through attrition, not a purge. It will go beyond 2010/2012 to fix this.
Kevin Jackson, who Facebooks here:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/theblacksphere
and blogs at:
http://theblacksphere.blogspot.com/
wrote about this two months ago. There are definitely operatives with unconfirmed affiliation attempting to co-opt the Tea Party Movement.
36. David Thomson
“We have no choice but to spend the money and time to work within the Republican Party.”
Why is this so hard for people to understand? A separate third party will NOT effect the change that needs to occur. Far better to change the Republicans than hand things over to the Dems. The TPM can do that. The TPM can not become effective, at the national level, until it builds a political base at the state and local level. Strong arm the RINO’s into compliance, don’t weed them out. That will happen in due course.
It is obvious that many of the people crying for a third party failed math in school. When you split the conservative vote the liberals win.
Fight for the most conservative candidate you can get in the primaries and then realize that if you do not support the GOP in the general election you will have 2 more years of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi.
I agree that there are groups and some Republicans trying to ride the Tea Party Coat tails.
as for me..I have a deep seeded distrust of all these politicians, and gaining my support or vote will require THEM to do allot of hard work. Been burned too many times with the GOP establishemnt.
You haven’t identified the problem. The problem is corruption in government. BOTH parties are corrupt, so it doesn’t affect the problem to replace one party with another.
The voters are much more aware of this then the pundits, even the mini-pundits (wanna-be pundits?) that post here. The Republicans are courting the Tea-baggers because they are the out party. Their goal is to get back in, not so they can make the changes wanted by the Tea-baggers, but so they can steal what the Democrats have missed during their looting binge.
For the Tea-baggers to open an office in Washington or to run as a 3rd party is to be corrupted by the process and become part of the problem.
No, the Tea-baggers need to decide what is important to them, write a platform promoting that importance, then support in a bi-partisan way any candidates that embraces that platform. Winning becomes not electing candidates but in getting the two (2) parties to put forth candidates that want the same things that Tea-baggers want. That way, no matter which PARTY wins, the Tea-baggers win.
Plus remaining outside the mud wrestling that is modern politics lowers the dry cleaning bill. By becoming an influence on voters instead of a magnet for angry voters, the Tea-baggers can stay local and avoid the big sell out that becomes inevitable if they go the way of a 3rd party. As a 3rd party with an office in D.C., they would need a party chair, who would then be open to bribes and corruption.
One common theme is necessary for the 2010 elections, and in my opinion the Fair Tax Plan is it. Anyone running on the merits of the Fair Tax Plan as written would do themselves Justice as a viable candidate. The republician party [Michael Steel] isn’t equiped with enough common sense like [Ronald Wilson Reagan] to make it their platform at this time in history were every American citizen would keep every penny they earn while also receiving a monthly “prebate check” for the “basic necessities of life” untaxing all American citizens and in particular the poor in that regard. Paying taxes as you purchase goods/services controlling your own destiny while increasing your own wealth.Having the funds to purchase Health Care in the FREE MARKET.
The National sales tax of 23% on all “new goods and services”only [used items are NOT taxed] included in the price of the retail item/service. It is completely transparent where everyone is “equal”. It ends class warfare and returns the POWER “back to the people” stripping Congress’s ability to play this game any longer. There is much too much detail to post here and now so look up fairtax.org too educate all true conservatives and those in the Republician Party who still believe in this Country and the Constitution. RINO’S need not apply.
The Fair Tax Plan is boilerplate. It’s a shame the republician party is blind to the best plan and platform to save America as are those of the Tea Parties as one group with a common goal of restoring JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, and the GDP.
This country can never get on the same page with anything due to massive egos,greed or wanting too be the hero for reconition.
This is why this Country is doomed. But the Fair Tax Plan could become the real and true Hero that saved America by Abolishing the IRS. The greatest punisher of productivity and success. The IRS is the sewer vs. acomplishment!
The Internal Racketeering Service of The United States of America used only as a tool of implimenting the class warfare games of the powerful an of those who game the system for personal benefit. K-Street is the perfect example.
So much for Obama and his phoney claim to stand for the African American communities let alone this Country as a whole. He remains silent on this issue and has given lame excuses and demagoguery while pulling the flush chain on America instead of becoming the hero he could have been rather than the socialist/Maxist mindset of collectiveness he advocates to punish the “Evil Rich” for those who won’t even try to make their lives sucessful.
The time is NOW for the Fair Tax Plan Platform because only and idiot would advocate for the IRS status quo to remain in its present existence and only a FOOL wouldn’t want to keep his own money as the fruit of their labor.
Imagine America as the “Tax Haven Of The World” untaxing Capital and Labor forevermore! The Tea Parties from all over this Country should adopt the Fair Tax Plan in unison from sea to shining sea becoming the Heros and rocking the Dem-O-Taxers out of existence into oblivian along with the IRS.
Lets make April 15 “Just Another Spring Day” while saving America at the same time. Tea Partiers its time to step up to the plate with this as your platform and main theme for victory in 2010/2012. Only your infighting will defeat the cause. LIBERTY=FREEDOM…FINANCIAL FREEDOM=TRUE LIBERTY!
Republicans wheel out this “if you don’t vote for us” (no matter how bad the candidate) you will make things worse. What Republicans should be saying is what can we do to make all these disenchanted tea party votes to come to us. They don’t listen, they try to take over and bully. It has been thus for several decades and people are finally fed up.
Politics has realigned before and it might just do again if the two parties continue on their current path.
To Poat #16 seanmahair. Good post. The only thing The more things change
Tea Party supporters must take over the Republican party. We’ll never win another election if we are a marginal 3rd party. We’ll divide the vote between a “Tea Party” and a Republican candidate and we’ll lose ever election to the Statists.
How can anyone with a brain imagine that it is easier and more possible to start a third party than is is to rebuild an established party which is already partly on your side. It is almost equivalent to saying let’s find a new world since this one is messed up.
The Tea Party should work for those who share their views. Whether those candidates are Democrats or Republicans doesn’t matter.
Vote by candidate, not by party. Work for candidates by what they stand for, not by what letter they have after their name.
Given the fighting that is taking place between the Tea Partiers and the Republicans, it reminds me of the 30 years war. Roman Catholics and Protestants could not agree, and war was the result. The Peace of Westphalia put an end to the church being the dominant sphere, and government was reinstated as the most dominant sphere.
So, if the US thinks it can still bear the burden of wearing the mantle of leadership of the free world, while this is going on, I have this to say: You have got to be out of your cotton-picking minds!
What needs to be done has to be identified. Then it has to be worked upon. If that isn’t going to be done, the US can kiss its role of leadership good bye.
Tomorrow might be different:
The bankrupt(in all ways) Federal Govt.
and _all_ its elected officials may be
irrelevant.
The life-or-death difference may be
the honesty and competence of _state_
officials; Grass-roots _up_ , people.
To all of you who are posting politics
as usual; Is that a plan or a wish ?
Hint: a plan has a chance of coming true.
Beware this poll if you don’t want to get sucked in by Liberal lies’. A third party will take votes away from the GOP.
Let us listen to the words of one of the greatest conservatives, and one of the greatest Presidents, in modern history on the topic of third parties:
Who said that? Ronald Wilson Reagan.
Those who advocate third parties are going against Reagan’s philosophy. As far as I am concerned you can go your way.
The GOP can not survive without the Tea Party now. Conservatives need the GOP in name only currently to change the landscape. There are not many Repub’s that fit the Tea Party model so they will not get the financial backing they think they’ll get. Be wary of anyone claiming to be the leader of the Tea Party movement, there really isn’t any one person. Palin comes closest to the common sense thinking that is needed.
The Tea party movement is not a party but a movement to change the direction of the Nation. The preservation of our freedoms and liberties. What will work is privately supporting those who you feel meet those needs. Beware of the larger groups claiming the power. The libs will use those groups against us all.
“18. steve4liberty:
The far right and far left want to tell us how to live. The far right by saying no abortion,”
Guess in your book I am “Far Right”. Abortion is inimical to basic Human rights as Slavery was inimical to Human freedom.
On the larger point, we who deprecate tyranny have but two options at this point of history. We can take the longer route and start a new party, essentially relegating the Republican party to the ashbin of History. This will enable our opposites to hold or gain for years.. maybe decades. The other option is co-option…. take over , or rather take back our party.
To that end I suggest we energize(tea parties.. already happening) and put forth limited government candidates… happening.
Now the main keystroke to put the Mclaim/Rino’s out of power… that is to say they will no longer control the Repub party. And the Surest way to do that is not to send the RNC even one thin dime.
Get active folks, run or find the real small government/conservatives. Send them your money, not the RNC. And do it nationwide.
If the Tea party would let us all know the most conservative/Libertarian 300 candidates in Repub primaries .. we could effect a tidal wave of real hope and change. I call it project 100… pick your battles and send $10.00 to one hundred of the 300 outside the chain of command of the RNC .
This is one way how we Tea partiers can limmit government most effectively.
Why is no one talking about the most obvious answer of all . . . 4th party! Clearly we can’t trust the TINOs (Tea partiers In Name Only) to fight for true conservative values. We’re already having problems with the Purity Test. And I think you all agree that the Purity Test is pretty darn well watered down. So, we have to create a home for the ultra-pure conservatives. I suggest the American Party. Our platform? Zero Tolerance. That’s it – Zero Tolerance. Doesn’t matter for what, se have zero tolerance for it. I think it’s a winner. I really do. Mississippi, in the bag. Alabama, in the bag . . . Alaska! In the bag. Uh . . . hang on . . . uh . . . win win I tell ya!
Brenda G: Would that you were right. In fact, though, the tea party is an official party now, on the ballot in at least one state, with others surely to follow. And what do they stand for? Sarah Palin politics, unfortunately. So that instead of going the way of Bastiat, von Humboldt, von Mises, Rand, Rothbard, et cetera, they’re going the way of a quasi-religious conservatism whose end is not, I assure you, libertas.
Whether now the tea party co-opts Sarah Palin and her brand of conservatism, or whether the tea party is “co-opted” by the Tea Party Express and the GOP scarcely matters. Those options are two sides of the same penny. The tea party got offtrack not long after tax day.
You may quote me on that.
Going the way of the Whigs…
This is an important moment. If somebody with enough vision and principles makes a document stating pro-freedom principles, then that somebody can found a new party and surely the GOP will go Whig. If somebody who’s only a power seeker (or even a liberal plant) takes the initiative and makes the new party, it will be a disaster.
Principles are important here, not the form, not the party or the name of the organization. So, Are the organizers going to do the founding document? That’ll define the destiny of the GOP. The Gop have not too much hope of salvation by now. Ok, they can, if they return to the core freedom values; but I doubt it. I think decent people inside the Gop are just waiting if the next party will be also pro freedom. I have the impression they will join the new party if the new party is pro-freedom. Failing to make that Founding document (some sort of Declaration of Principles) will be the failure of the tea party/conservative/independent movement.
“Who said that? Ronald Wilson Reagan.”
You are leaving out the other half of the story. Ronald Reagan may have flirted with third party rhetoric—but he definitely did not put it into practice. Reagan did not leave the Republican Party after being defeated by Gerald Ford in the 1976 presidential nomination fight.
X wrote: > So, Are the organizers going to do the founding document?
God forbid.
“Republicans wheel out this “if you don’t vote for us”
What did I say in post 36? This problem is simply the result of the normal lazy behavior of conservatives. They wish to bitch and moan—but mostly refuse to work in the primaries. Thankfully, the Republican conservatives in Florida have apparently learned their lesson. Charlie Crist’s efforts to become that state’s next U.S. senator seem to be going nowhere. The smart money should now be on Marco Rubio. That might not have happened only a few years ago.
David Thomson (62)
“What did I say in post 36? This problem is simply the result of the normal lazy behavior of conservatives. They wish to bitch and moan—but mostly refuse to work in the primaries.”
Truer words were never spoken. The number of people who griped constantly after they were dumb enough to buy into the leftist anti-Bush propaganda and then hand congress to the left is incredible. Had half their number even bothered to vote in the last election our current situation could be a lot different, especially in the Senate. Instead, declaring that both sides are the same, they helped elect a guy who goes in debt each month as much as Bush did during his entire eight year term. I’ve decided that a majority of those constantly griping are actually working for the left and enjoying their role playing. Just like the RINOs who are actually democrats, a large number of the “no one is conservative enough” crowd are doing the same and working for the democrats from a different angle.
Personally, I don’t listen to anyone in my area gripe when we couldn’t even get enough people to answer phones most of the time. True, it’s a leftist stronghold in some ways, but there are plenty of people spitting and chewing and bitching about no one being conservative enough. Now, they’re bitching while they wait their turn at the grab your ankles booth and still insist that their helping enough to get others to the polls would have made a difference. Basically, they’re the bitching party and don’t really intend to ever vote for anyone since bitching is much, much, easier.
Regards
It’s high time we dispel once and for all the absurd myth that Ronald Reagan was somehow for deregulation.
Statistically speaking, the size of bureaucracy, in terms of sheer civilian manpower, increased dramatically under Reagan, so that by the time he was finished, there were well over 200,000 more government workers than in 1980, when he took office.
In fact, the size of government under Ronald Reagan grew astronomically in virtually every way. To wit:
At the end of the first quarter of 1988, government spending had increased to 28.7 percent of the national income (“national income” refers to the private money generated by the hard-working citizens of this country). To put that into better perspective, this figure is even higher than Jimmy Carter’s outrageous numbers: in his final year as president, Carter maxed out at staggering 27.9 percent. Indeed, both Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter cut government spending far more efficiently than Ronald Reagan. Here are some of those numbers, which don’t lie:
Under Reagan, Social Security spending went from 179 billion in 1981 to 269 billion.
Farm programs skyrocketed: 21 billion to 51 billion.
Medicare jumped from 43 billion in 1981 to 80 billion in 1987.
During the Reagan era, federal entitlements alone rose from 197 billion to 477 billion.
Reagan promised the people that he would “abolish” the Department of Energy and the Department of Education. He did no such thing. On the contrary, these budgets more than doubled under Reagan. In his own words: “We’re not attempting to cut either spending or taxing levels below that which we presently have.”
In addition to not cutting, however, Reagan also upped the spending a few notches, thus: the Gross Federal Debt went from 900 billion to 2.7 trillion. Ford and Carter simply doubled it; Reagan tripled it.
Spending habits (which are a better gauge of government size than are taxes) increased under Reagan’s leadership in almost every way. But in any case, Reagan hardly cut taxes: by the end of 1987, government revenues, a good indicator of taxes and tax cuts, were nearly identical to those of Carter.
Reagan’s Economic Recovery Act, so-called, was negated a year or two later by his Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act (TEFRA).
He furthermore placed a five-cent-per-gallon tax on gas.
He hiked up taxes on the trucking industry.
He succeeded in increasing the Social Security tax – to the tune of 165 billion. In terms of foreign trade, Reagan was the most mercantilistic since Herbert Hoover: import restriction doubled under Reagan, and quotas were placed on countless products.
Foreign aid went from 10 billion to 22 billion.
Reagan also supported seatbelt laws and federal airbag laws.
Reagan increased regulation of the auto industry by not opposing that monstrous thing known as Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFÉ).
In the final analysis, Reagan, like all the other bureaucrats, was just another interventionist. So please don’t be fooled.
(Source)
We have to be prepared to lose elections. I have voted for the last candidate that is the lesser of evil (McCain). What difference is there in voting for the Republican when they vote like a Democrat? No more, never again. This may be our only chance of changing politics in our great country…we must be brave, we must keep focused and we must sacrifice for freedom, no matter what the cost. The stakes are too high to worry if the Republican party will survive or not.
61. Miss Priss
Anyway, somebody has to do it for the better or the worse, things will be clear after that and everybody* will know if the idea of a new party is serious or not, if worthy or not.
* everybody: republicans, Rinos, conservatives, libertarians, etc
Mr. Thomson @ 60:
With all due respect, sir, next time please read the whole post.
The line immediately following the one you quote is, “Those who advocate third parties are going against Reagan’s philosophy.”
Marco Rubio doing well is a great thing.
However this “shift to the left” last election was not as large as Republicans might have us think. There was a lot of socialism coming out of Bush’s White House. Bailouts & nationalisations aren’t exactly small government are they?
The hostility towards the tea party movement by some in this thread clearly demonstrates the problem. Standing up for freedom, free market and the Constitution is considered fringe by many Republicans and that is what is so worrying.
“With all due respect, sir, next time please read the whole post.”
You are absolutely correct. I apologize for misreading the last sentence. Ronald Reagan flirted with the idea of a third party in 1976—but wisely decided not to leave the GOP. At the end of the day, it might even been argued that Reagan was more loyal to the Republicans than Gerald Ford. Jimmy Carter would have never become president had Ford asked him to be his running mate. Ford was too loyal to the Rockefeller wing of the party.
“Had half their number even bothered to vote in the last election our current situation could be a lot different, especially in the Senate.”
I warned these people not to get in touch with their inner Nietzsche. They regrettably embraced the absurd notion that it was best to let things fall completely apart. The growth of a new and wonderful world cannot occur until the older one is completely demolished. Letting the Democrats win control of the government was supposed to quicken the arrival of this conservative utopia.
I hope you all have better Tea Party groups than the ones around here. I’ve gone to a number of rallies and most of those people were just … umm… well, lets say that they talked a lot, but not in ways that made sense. One guy, I could swear gave a speech that sounded like he was reading a ticker on CNN or FOX… it was just disjointed sentences that didn’t seem to have much bearing on anything useful.
Then there were the people screaming about birth certificates… and one guy who kept saying he was “John Galt’ but it was obvious that, at best, he’d read the Cliff Notes.
I think at two of the rallies there were two or three really good speakers and lots of bad speakers and… the general public that attended which, sadly didn’t seem all that clued into anything other than being upset in general at Obama. One lady was crying.. Crying and saying “If Bush were still President, we wouldn’t be losing all of this money to these Banks!” (this was at the height of the TARP bullshit) She apparently had no idea that Bush started TARP, or at least cognitive dissonance had set in.
I had hoped we were seeing the rise of a Libertarian movement. Sadly, in this area at least, it seems just like populist nonsense… an excuse for people to vent frustrations. It was bitterly disappointing.
In my recent trip across country I heard one person who didn’t want any efforts to stop any type of armageddon (that is why he was against Cap & Trade) due to his religious beliefs. Then we had the Larouche nuts following us around going on about their belief that the Queen still controls the US.
For the most part, however, there were sensible people who were concerned about how their country was being run by both Democrats and Republicans. The speeches varied in quality granted, but people have to start somewhere public speaking. Tea Party groups and events vary greatly across the country, but then that is to be expected.
DT: I know the type and I too warned them to be careful what they wished for…
Andrew Ian Dodge wrote: > The hostility towards the tea party movement by some in this thread clearly demonstrates the problem.
Clearly? Not so much. I, for one, was a proud tea partier — one of the first, even before tax day. And I remain as committed to laissez-faire capitalism as I ever was before. In fact, that’s precisely why I object to what the tea party has now become:
We have, for example, the Tea Party Patriots sending out newsletters imploring us “to pray for our country and that our elected officials have the courage to represent us.”
We routinely hear prayers before tea party rallies.
We have rampant xenophobia.
We have hostility toward homosexuality.
We have tea partiers chastising those who don’t recycle and who aren’t green.
We have at least one mainstream tea party group — in Redding, California — who wants Christmas carols in public schools to be required under threat of “litigation if the rule isn’t followed.”
We have, in short, a thoroughly unintellectual group of organizers the overwhelming majority of whom couldn’t define freedom in any fundamental context at all.
The people who founded these United States were intellectual giants who understood — at least, in large part — the philosophical roots of freedom. Only a proper philosophy — one that covers all four major branches of philosophy — can codify, implement, and preserve true freedom. There’s no other way to do it. Philosophy is the sine-qua-non of human freedom.
Andrew Ian Dodge wrote: > Standing up for freedom, free market and the Constitution is considered fringe by many Republicans and that is what is so worrying.
Perhaps, but those are such easy platitudes that virtually no one I know — left, right, or middle — will go against them. For instance, what part of the Constitution are you referring to? The part that calls for a government-run postal service? The part that advocates regulating interstate commerce? Or do you mean the part that gives Congress the power to tax? Or the part the gives federal government the power of Eminent Domain? And what exactly do you mean by freedom? Do you mean public schools for all? Public libraries? Public highways? Social security? Or do you mean, on the other hand, abolishing all laws against drugs and alcohol, including drinking-age laws and Sunday laws, and legalizing crystal methadrine? And do you mean a total and impassable Jeffersonian wall of separation between church and state? And do you mean privatizing all roads and all parks? Anyone can say he’s for freedom. That’s easy. It’s what a person means by freedom that tells the real story.
The truth is that the Constitution was an ingenious document — “the greatest document ever penned my man,” as Gladstone said — but it contains flaws. Those flaws are precisely what have brought us to this point. The tea party, an inspiring movement which showed that the American spirit is alive and well and deeply ingrained within the people, nevertheless lacks a guiding philosophy. I shutter to think of the Tea Party Patriots or Tea Party Express or the American Liberty Alliance penning a new Constitution — almost as much as I shutter to think of our current politicians penning one.
# 73 Miss Priss Interesting points about the tea partiers; I sure as hell don’t know what they stand for except that they are mad as hell and aren’t going to take…something.
But I shudder at “shutter.”
Suppose we change the two major Parties into two minor Parties? Whoops we already have. I suggest if either now wants to absorb those Tea folks into their ranks — you know to win elections — well, they’ll have to pay a real price. (And they can’t be bought with OPM, other-people’s money.) Its not the same old same old any longer, once people stepped up to face them. Or maybe they think, as they always did, that they’ll split the tea party votes down the middle. I doubt that is true. So its now time for RINO’s to get off the fence and stop being the scrooges and self-promoters they’ve been. They look like minor Parties to me.
Miss Priss interesting points. On my 30 stop, 26 day tour of tea parties I encountered a few people who kind of didn’t get the freedom thing (or whose view of it was rather skewed) but the vast majority were not so inclined. We encountered organisers who were very aligned with the very limited core values and some who seemed to be more keen on their own egos than the cause.
Despite the fact that some tea party types seem to think they are post-politics… there is the same conflict of personalities, egos and those who want to to dominate for their own agenda as there was since advent of politics.
Miss Priss:
“The people who founded these United States were intellectual giants who understood — at least, in large part — the philosophical roots of freedom.”
**No one argues against that.
“Only a proper philosophy — one that covers all four major branches of philosophy — can codify, implement, and preserve true freedom.”
**Well fine, have it your intellectual way. However, our elected and non-elected officials swear an oath to the constitution.(Art.-VI) That makes us different than other quasi-philosophical societies, as “flawed” or imperfect as you believe it is.
“The truth is that the Constitution was an ingenious document — “the greatest document ever penned my man,” as Gladstone said — but it contains flaws. Those flaws are precisely what have brought us to this point. The tea party, an inspiring movement which showed that the American spirit is alive and well and deeply ingrained within the people, nevertheless lacks a guiding philosophy. I shutter[sic] to think of the Tea Party Patriots or Tea Party Express or the American Liberty Alliance penning a new Constitution — almost as much as I shutter[sic] to think of our current politicians penning one.”
Again, no one was talking about writing or penning a “new” constitution.
“If a majority be united by a common interest, the rights of the minority will be insecure.” – Fed#51 In this case the majority being a duopoply — one two-headed Party – united in their interests, namely to protect its/their own power and control over our process. Thus, to the exclusion of those they in effect do not represent, who disagree with their actions… Enter Tea Party.(not as redefined by Tea Party Express/Freedom Works into a default, factious Republican arm)
Fed #51 “[Justice] ever has been and ever will be pursued until it be obtained, or until liberty be lost in the pursuit.”
The point is, the tea party movement is mainly made up of normal, every day, American citizens, who have had no voice, no one to listen, no one to stop the madness.
I have never been to a tea party but have wanted to go to show Congress that we are the people and we are not happy with what they are doing.
Sure, some who joined in on this protest, eventually tried to organize and take it over. But, no one can take the credit for this movement.
Mainstream media, bho et al have arrogantly, viciously attacked American citizens. Ignored us, lied about us, failed us, deceived us and we are aware.
It wasn’t Glenn Beck or any person that got credit for this.
Most of us are educated, have common sense and were aware from the campaign, that this would be disastrous for our country, if this bho was elected. Not for the color of his skin, but for his agenda, which came out of his own mouth!
Glenn Beck just happened to be in a position where he could expose this, he has the money/resources to investigate this corrupt group and he’s one of only a handful of powerful figures, to speak out, with boldness.
“This makes it very hard for nonpartisan tea parties to get positive media coverage”
What kind of naive fool believes the MSM is ever going to give tea parties positive coverage? Don’t you get it, Mr. Dodge? They hate your conservative ideals.
Let me repeat that, the MSM hates your conservative ideals. They will give you positive coverage only if you abandon your conservative ideals.
Miss Priss, I think you get off on your own tangent. The point is people rally around principles, which should be central to the political Party and the people’s process and business. That is what Tea Parties have done. “It’s the principles, stupid.” You can argue for or against them by philosophy etc, but principles and the giants of founders that represent them is what is important. The Tea Parties do have central focused, guiding principles though maybe not a formal philosophical thesis. Part of it summarized in the Declaration of Independence, which may be a philosophical document, but lights the way in spelling out those declared principles.
When you bring in the modern definition and all the baggage of Separation of Church and State, you are playing the revisionists’ tune. Government’s job was not to declare us a secular society regulated into submission by the federal government. Government is created to secure these unalienable rights not to trump or supersede them. Some want to trample those “rights” under foot while the ever-powerful federocracy expands. These are not aspiring principles. They want a controlled command economy, socialism light, or whatever you want to call it – run by a massive federocracy. It’s not a vague, missing philosophy that is our problem here. Its all there; those are old ideas, old battles. Do those latter principles sound like the Tea Party folks to you? Did King George’s philosophy sound like what founders envisioned? Even then the debate went on about those principles and led to the revolution. Did they sound like misguided or philosophically lacking struggles? The focus here should be on misguided, arrogant federal government, its philosophy, and its direction. King George would have liked nothing more than to beat “Tea Party” activistis into submission calling them directionless or claiming they lacked the necessary focus, or proper philosophy. Its not the philosophy that saves people.
Rather than go back over all of the posts to point out who said what, please let me add a couple of thought to my earlier posts.
Someone posted, and I paraphrase, that government needs to curtail individual liberty to protect society as a whole from dangerous things like drugs. My response is that perhaps state and local government should address these things. Personally I think the billions of dollars and tens of thousands of lives ruined by the war on drugs far outstrips any damage done by the drugs themselves. As it is the ones making money are the criminals and the DNC who get money funneled to them from the trial lawyers, but this thread is not about drugs, it is about the Repulicrats trying to usurp the tea party movement.
In response to all of those who say we must work from within the GOP to change it, my response is this. Political parties, and their candidates are products offered for the approval of the consumer (voters in this case). Unless the GOP is willfully ignoring the tea party movement they are now keenly aware of what we want before we “buy” their product. To say we have to work from within for a long, long time is equivalent to saying we need to work at Ford if we don’t like the current Mustang.
The bottom line to me – what the Republicans have been doing so far is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Not by a mile. Our government has grown beyond all reasonableness and this needs to be addressed with vigor. Republicans can make a third party unnecessary by running candidates that tea party people can support. Otherwise, I frankly don’t care which clique is in power the R’s or the D’s.
“If you keep doing what you’ve always done, you’re going to keep getting what you’ve always gotten.” It’s time to try something else. Republican leadership – run good candidates or live with the consequences. I pledge that I will no longer vote for the “lesser of two evils” and I know many others feel the same way
“Otherwise, I frankly don’t care which clique is in power the R’s or the D’s.”
I don’t think this does us the political service people suggest. I won’t say I don’t care. Many people said that before election, now they are reevaluating that. I think they are proving they do care. I won’t deny some difference between them – small as it may be or seem. At the same time that difference SURE IS NOT anything I would hang my hat on to justify RNC support. The GOP needs to get their support the old fashioned way, they need to earn it. But that gets hard when they are out of power, and powerless as a force against a tri-Liberal oligarchy. But RNC dug that hole for themselves – and us. Now they’re asking us for a hand up out of the ditch. My first concern is that they are not a threat or will not do me harm if I do. I can’t take that risk. Reagan said trust but verify
PLEASE – Don’t let the Democrats win again. The constitution won’t be able to take another hit.
The GOP needs to get their support the old fashioned way, they need to earn it.
Yes, no one is impressed with the GOP using black-mail tactics to gain votes. “We may be bad, but they are worse…” is not a way of getting people into the voting booth.
The history of the GOP is one of uninterrupted surrender negotiations. They did not stop Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the Great Society, War on Poverty, Ted Kennedy’s Immigration sellout of ’65, open borders, Obamacare, or any socialist initiative. The GOP is directly responsible for affirmative action, the EPA, the huge prescription drug benefit, doubling of Social Security taxes, No Child’s Left Behind, and other major socialist programs. If the Tea Party so much as lets teh GOP nose in the tent, it is doomed. The GOP is the anti-conservative party. Warmongering and religious fundamentalism do not count as conservatism in my book. Get rid of the GOP if you are serious about overthrowing the elites that have us enslaved.
The goal of the Tea Party should be to destroy the GOP, not to win elections. Until the GOP is destroyed, there is no chance for real conservative rule. The GOP would love to have your money and your time spent trying to reform them,but the elitists who run the party will not change. The GOP is a sham party that exists only to provide an illusion of choice. Elections is America are a sham. Your vote has been stolen multiple times by ACORN and illegals. The liberal fasicsts own the election process. Notice that the GOP does NOTHING about vote fraud. The GOP refuses to fight liberal fascism on its own terms. Politics will not solve the war between liberal fascism and freedom. The Tea Party must remain a revolutionary movement,dedicated to non-violent removal of our illegitimate political system and our illegitimate government.
Can anyone outline the political / ideological differences between the Tea Party(s) and the Constitution Party? I’ve read their platforms and I’m not sure I can think of any major differences.
Just in case you thought I was over-stating the TPE’s being a cover for Republican fund-raising… read this.
It’s January 28th and it’s been a month since the last post, and SO much has changed…This was an EXCELLENT piece by Andrew Dodge as it couldn’t have been more timely! The election of Moderate Scott Brown to replace Ted Kennedy in the Senate was huge but not because a Reoublucan won but because it demonstrated the power of the Tea Party movement. What also happened in this period–Sarah Palin endorsing and going to campaign for John McCain brought her down in a lot of conservative’s eyes and may have severely damaged her for 2012. She also has made efforts to co-opt the Tea Party movement. Now Scott Brown is telling those conservatives who foolishly voted for thim that he’ll be voting frequently with Democrats…
But back to the Tea Party movement. Andrew fails to mention one of the other large Republican Tea Party groups, ResistNet; Freedom Works, Tea Party Nation and Tea Party Express are the other Republican groups. Campaign for Liberty and Oath-Keepers are the powerful Libertarian groups in the movement and ONE group is the only truly “Independent Tea Party” org of any size–Teaparty.org, Dale Robertson’s group.