Another Clark County Cop Kills and Walks
No one can say for certain what happened the night that Ruslan Zhgenti died.
Henderson, Nevada, police who investigated the incident contend that Zhgenti went to the home of his estranged wife and co-worker, Sabina Iskenderova, at 1:15 a.m. a month into the couple’s trial separation. Officials claim that Zhgenti was armed and intent on triggering a confrontation. The four bullets that hit him — including one in the head — speak to the finality of that confrontation. Henderson police indicate that the shooting was justifiable self-defense. It is apparent that they believe there are only two living witnesses to the incident: Sabina Iskenderova herself, and Edward Little, the police officer who fired the fatal shots.
If it seems suspicious that Little was conveniently inside the couple’s home, take heart: you are not alone in thinking so. It is suspicious. While the media has danced around the subject, it seems readily apparent why a man would be in the home of a woman other than the one he shares with his wife, and it can be referred to as “community policing” by only the least jaded.
Ruslan Zhgenti suspected that his wife was having an affair, and apparently died in the process of proving that. Whether or not he took actions that justified his shooting is up for debate, as is whether or not Henderson citizens can trust the Henderson Police Department to perform an unbiased investigation of one of their own.
The Clark County Coroner’s Office claims that since Little was off-duty and used his own personal weapon there would not be a coroner’s inquest into Zhgenti’s death. That is somewhat surprising, considering the coroner’s office has conducted at least four inquests of shootings involving off-duty officers within the past 20 years:
- In 2003, officer Robert Johnson, who was volunteering at a fireworks stand with his wife, shot an armed robber after the suspect pointed a gun at them. Johnson was not in uniform and didn’t identify himself as an officer.
- In 1999, officer Dennis Devitte shot and killed a man who walked into Mr. D’s bar and started shooting patrons, including the officer. Devitte was not in uniform and didn’t identify himself as an officer.
- In 1995, officer Merl Sage intervened in a man raping a woman across the street from Sage’s house. The suspect lunged at Sage, and Sage shot twice. Sage didn’t identify himself as an officer and was not in uniform.
- In 1993, multiple officers who had been celebrating a birthday tackled a purse-snatcher outside a bar. The man stopped breathing and died.
Coroner Mike Murphy claims that the off-duty officers noted above were performing as police officers even while off-duty, which justified the inquests.
He did not clearly explain why an off-duty officer volunteering to work a fireworks stand (Johnson) is any more “taking enforcement action” than is an off-duty officer volunteering to work beside a nightstand, but it is fair to suspect that both can be categorized as a gray area and matter of judgment by the coroner.
It may be worth noting that Mike Murphy also presided over the inquest regarding the shooting of Erik Scott, a former West Point cadet and Army officer gunned down by Las Vegas police in a flurry of gunshots outside the entrance of a crowded Costco. The one-sided presentation of the inquest procedure has come under considerable fire as the result of the Scott case, but the sad truth of the matter is that the process would still be viewed entirely as a local problem had Scott’s family and West Point alumni not brought the case to national attention. In more than 200 police-involved shootings dating back to the days of disco, the one-sided Clark County inquest has never resulted in criminal charges being filed against an officer.
I have no doubt that Federale and Buck Turgidson will swing by from Confederate Yankee’s blog to explain how all police action is fully justified and we just need to trust the Only Ones.
The stench is overwhelming, but until a Preferred Species is killed one should not expect the Department of “Justice” to do anything.
And the whores have venereal diseases – what else is new?
I’m not so sure the ‘good cops’ exist. They know what the ‘bad cops’ are doing and do nothing about it – aiding and abetting. The blue wall of silence is impenetrable.
The Erik Scott murder is an excellent example how bad the situation is. I do not trust a single cop, and my son is one of them.
Agreed insofar as trusting a Nevada cop could be extremely detrimental to one’s health. The state was formed by corrupt entities. Why would any sane person think it’s governance and policing would grow from that to become acceptable?
I am sorry your son is a crooked cop, but I can tell you that I know many good cops who take constant abuse and return nothing but professionalism. For every bad cop I have ever met, I have met a hundred good… this proves nothing about the case in question, of course, but then you weren’t speaking to that.
Wrong, Caestal. The “hundred good” that you reference all stand in line to protect and cover up for the one bad cop.
Nice try. Just make sure you don’t find one of your “hundred good” in bed with your spouse, lest you meet the same end as Ruslan Zhgenti.
“I am sorry your son is a crooked cop, but I can tell you that I know many good cops …”
I was expecting faster response from someone like you. A good one
I know a lot of cops too, in fact two of my nephews are cops.
Now, explain the murder and abuse of innocent, law-abiding citizens by your fellow cops, please. More important, explain and defend how the bad cops manage to survive in your ‘clean’ departments?
They’re reporting and arresting the crooked ones? If not, then they are not good cops, just slightly less corrupt ones.
The institution is SO corrupt, they think they are honest.
Tim:
You wrote: “And the whores have venereal diseases – what else is new? I’m not so sure the ‘good cops’ exist. They know what the ‘bad cops’ are doing and do nothing about it – aiding and abetting. The blue wall of silence is impenetrable. The Erik Scott murder is an excellent example how bad the situation is. I do not trust a single cop, and my son is one of them.”
Given your intense hatred for police officers, I have to believe you are LYING when you claim your son and nephews are officers; perhaps to provide you with some perceived legitimacy as you repeatedly trash an entire profession. I believe this for the simple reason I find it hard to imagine you would want others to feel about your son the way you feel about all other officers. Do you hate and/or distrust your son because he is a police officer?
If my assumption about you hating/distrusting your own son is incorrect and you feel offended at being called a RABID LIAR as well as a rather poor parent, then, maybe, you have some idea how active and retired police officers feel after reading your hate-fueled posts about our profession.
Kinda smarts, doesn’t it?
Last, what is your solution to the problem? You offer up tons of invective but proffer absolutely no solutions. A reasonable person doesn’t just stand there and swear at a flat tire. A reasonable person changes the tire and has the flat fixed. Again, what is/are your solutions to this out-of-control problem of rogue police officers?
Insert ad hominem attacks here:_____________.
How about this: Any “Law Enforcement” officer who fails to honor his oath of office shall be removed by any means necessary?
You are a perfect example of a dumb cop. The guy did not say he hated cops, he said he did not trust them, including his son. You created a straw-man argument. You’re probably used to doing that to arrest people. Dishonest. My solution to not trusting cops; I believe in self-defense. I’m sure not waiting around for the “good” cops to turn in the “bad” ones.
Clay,
Sure. Whatever you say, hero.
Tim HATES cops. You have not read his anti-law enforcement screeds on other PJM articles, have you Ace? You jumped in talking smack about my professionalism without knowing the first thing about me or what I’ve been through. You have not earned the right to criticize me or my performance as a police officer. For what it’s worth, I LOVED arresting cop-haters. So much tough talk and most cried like babies. Thanks for the memories, Clay.
BTW, Tim didn’t answer my question. Are you his water carrier or what?
While this particular incident (Little) seems suspicious, the other four mentioned appear to be legitimate uses of force. The pursesnatcher incident appears to be a case of divine justice, in that the thief died in the course of his actions after being restrained.
The other three shootings appear on the face to be legitimate 2d Amendment shooting cases. Armed robbery, attempted murder and rape are all violent crimes and they were dealt with violently by men who had the testicular fortitude to deal with them the way they should be dealt with: blunt force. Point a gun at me, I will likewise deal with you if I have the chance. These men should be commended for their actions if the cases justified the actions. Cowboy justice? Perhaps; but in this day of the criminal getting away with this, that and the other, cowboy justice doesn’t sound all that bad.
I am inclined to agree completely. If officers were not at those incidents and I were, (I am not a police officer) I would have acted in a similar way. Fortunately, the perps got what they deserved.
You miss the point. The other four incidents rightfully required coroner’s inquests. The current case somehow did not. The explanations for that “somehow” is telling. It stinks! Not saying the result would have changed anything because of the contrived and controlling evidentiary rules set up by the Clark Country Coroner. But at least a panel of citizens would have been involved. As if.
Exactly correct. And in *those* cases, an inquest was held, to judicially determine whether the use of force was justified.
And in this case, where nothing is known about the exact circumstances, there will be no inquest.
I wonder if there was ANY investigation conducted. Gee, on CSI, the lab-rats would be dusting the guns for prints, etc. etc.
I think you missed the point of the other cases. They appear to be legitimate cases of use of force, and they were investigated. This appears to be an illegitimate case of use of force (murder) and it is not investigated.
The coroner will investigate Officers when he is sure there will be a clear and convincing exoneration, but will not take a chance of investigating a very suspicious case, just in case it turns out badly for the Officer.
Well said.
Con, what happened to the purse-snatcher sounds dodgy.
Still, as others have pointed out, it’s interesting that they chose to examine those shoots, but not this one.
Being retired from the military, my opinion might be slanted. I have the tendency to immediately surrender to higher authority if the situation ever presents itself. Anyone that is “carrying” in a controversial situation must remember the saying “If you live by the sword you will die by the sword.” I have encountered many law enforcement officers in my life. While I may not have liked their every word or action, It is far beyond me to criticise their professionlism or morals.
Right. We should disarm so as not to provide crooked Police Officers with a “valid” reason to shoot (not that it matters whether you’re armed or not, they’ll be happy to supply evidence later that you were), and lick the boots of our Police masters while grovelling on the ground in the hopes that they’ll deign to NOT shoot us in the name of “officer safety” while they are going about the duty WE HAVE EMPLOYED THEM to perform.
A Police Officer, by dint of the extra powers GRANTED to him/her by the Citizens they are sworn to protect must be *that much more* lawful in all of their actions. Having a Badge should not make someone impervious to the laws that everyone else must live under (and in fear of). If anything, Police should be held to far higher standards than the so-called Civilians they “serve”. Any possible misstep by a Police Officer should result in a stringent independent investigation, and should the evidence warrant it, result in the same charges and potential punishments that a non-Officer would face.
Unfortunately, we as a society have decided that somehow, just because we give someone a badge, they have the right to drive drunk, commit assaults and trespasses, and even murder innocent people with no fear of repercussions past a slap on the wrist or losing their job. “Professional Courtesy” and all.
Forgive me if I hold most Police Departments in utter contempt. These days, it is fast becoming “Dial 911 and Die” – not because the response takes too long, but because the responding Officer is as likely to make things worse as better for you and your family.
Triptx:
“Dial 911 and Die…”
After reading that, I’m pretty sure I know what your triple i printout would look like.
If Ruslan Zhgenti was not living there then what was he doing just walking in unannounced? He could have been a murderer or a rapist for all they knew. It would be a good idea to knock on the door and say who you are before entering. At my house you’d get your a$$ shot off if you just walked in providing I could get to ya before the dogs did.
Will,
This debate has turned quit ugly and contentious. My response will not reflect that.
1) It was not “his estranged wife’s house” it was HIS house too. He apparently moved out, and while I cannot prove it I’m just guessing, it was at HER suggestion. You’ve seen this or heard this before: “Let’s take a break and work on our relationship, and get counseling” – meanwhile she’s following some advocates advice to lay the groundwork for “he abandoned the home” slick trick in divorce court (meanwhile he’s obligated to PAY for ‘his’ home he cannot live in)
2) If this were a woman, who had been tricked into leaving her home, and came back suspecting her husband of cheating, and been summarily shot dead – there would be a far different outcry.
So, as to all conservative males (of which I am one) who foolishly think that the idea of chivalry is to elevate women at the expense of their fellow man soley so they feel better or to be congratulated is a selfish and misinformed person who needs to re-examine their values.
3) This whole “let’s bash cops” thing is disgusting. However, here’s what does need to be said: NO group can self-police. The very reason we, as a society have a police force is that we needed a separate body of impartial, trained individuals to walk into an unknown situation and objectively look at the facts to determine wrong doing.
No group will self police. Look at Congress (Charlie Rangle), or our ADAs (Mike Nifong) and see that they, like common folk, will not self police for the simple fear of being the next one who might face objective justice.
So, this bashing of our brave police forces is wrong – but it is the system we need to change. And a good start would be to apply the RICO statutes to those who conspire to keep bad cops out of jail.
Were I to lie, cover up, lose paperwork, and generally not cooperate with an investigation, I would, rightfully so, go to jail. If I were to be involved in a group who did that RICO would apply. Just because it’s members of our local (or federal) gov’t who engage in such practices, does not negate the illegality of the actions.
******************
The man who died walked into HIS OWN house – and found his wife’s lover. A normal response to this is not to calmly take notes, call your therapist, and certainly not to call the cops when one of the people involved WAS a cop.
We want our citizens to respect our laws and trust the legal system? Fine – but it has to be an equally applied system of laws that holds all to the same standard, and not one wherein we have become so used to corruption that we feel we have no recourse but to take the law into our own hands.
It’s not just “suspicious” that Ruslan walked in and got shot dead, but if it were not a cop (and lover) of the wife who did it, I sincerely suspect we’d all be saying what I am thinking: this was a set up, pre-meditated contract killing.
Steven
The real discouraging thing is that conservatives reflexively give cops the benefit of the doubt. Had the facts been exactly the same except that the wife’s visitor had been a casino dishwasher, named Juan Valdez, who it was assumed was an illegal alien, the outcry from conservatives would have been loud and immediate. Instead of holding cops to a higher standard we hold them to a lesser one and are shocked when they act like thugs.
I carry firearms for self-defense 24/7. I’m sure most of us carry-permit holders are conservatives.
Our experience with cops is rather negative, especially those who dare to choose open carry where legal.
Should you read gun forums from Georgia to Pennsylvania, you’d shake your head and wonder why these ‘heroes’ recruited to ‘protect and serve’ us choose to violate the laws of the state and United States on daily basis.
Their behavior is both arrogant and illegal, and they know they’ll get away with murder – literally.
One day a law-abiding citizen with a carry-permit and a firearm will choose not to be shot by a cop.
One more thing, you’re correct, we should quit treating cops as heroes. That honor should be earned.
You sound like a CC liberal, like me.
the discouraging thing is conservatives are usually misunderstood
most conservatives believe in 2nd amendment for the very reason that who, in his right mind, wants cops and crooks to have all the guns ffs
“The real discouraging thing is that conservatives reflexively give cops the benefit of the doubt. ”
You no doubt have proof of this assertion. I am a conservative and I have serious problems with the oft times arrogance of the police. And most conservatives that I know feel the same way. Now maybe those dingbats in Washington who are false-flag Republicans may do this but few of us “real” conservatives think very many career politicians inside the Beltway can even spell conservative let alone be one.
Only in your mind, Greg. Real conservatives look at cops as human beings, with the same strengths and failings as civilians. We support a well-policed community but that entails equitable enforcement, not playing favorites.
Bill,
Just check out any thread on HotAir that discusses cops behaving badly. There are indeed some self-described conservatives that will give cops a free pass on just about everything they do. There is no shortage of badge bunnies and holster sniffers that call themselves conservative but are really authoritarians who don’t mind state power as long as it leaves them alone.
The way I look at it is that there are Law conservatives, who believe in the rule of law and that cops must follow that rule, and Order conservatives, who believe in maintaining social order.
Thanks for the tip. Will drop in from time-to-time.
Interesting piece, Bob. How about an update on the death of Erik Scott? While I’m no cop-basher, the initial reports surounding the police killing of Scott smelled to high heaven.
Dave,
Follow the link at the end of the article over to Confederate Yankee, and scroll down the the “archives by category” section and click on “Erik Scott case.” All the writing from my co-blogger Mike McDaniel (himself a for street cop, SWAT operator and detective) is there, as are my few articles on the subject. I suspect Mike is now the leading journalistic authority on the case, and he comes from it from the perspective of a cop, which makes for some fascinating insights.
The story is a little old but how about Doug Scott. A little case of attempted robbery by a gang of police.
A link would have been nice.
how many times does it have to smell of corruption to be called corupt?
“Law abiding citizens” from all over the country know it’s corrupt. Unfortunately, that descriptive phrase eludes a majority of Nevada voters so nothing there will change for decades to come. One visits and spends money there at their peril.
There needs to be a thorough investigation, but there is likely to be little actual information turned up. What are you going to turn up by more investigation? The fact that Zhgenti has four holes in him, administered at close range? That’s not in dispute. Where the holes are and which are entrance and exit woulds is critical. That needs to match the story. I bet it does, but it needs to be stated and published.
But how are you going to extract any more “truth?” Torture the principals? About all you can do is to see if their stories hold together. If they lawyer up, which I presume they did, you’re not going to get inconsistent stories; the pros will see to that.
As a practical matter, this is why you make sure, when you shoot, that’s why you make sure your opponent does not survive. Dead men tell no tales, and now there is only one story of what happened – yours.
Like it or not, suspect Little all you want, but if his and his lover’s stories hold together there’s not much to work with. Where’s Columbo when you need him?
Here’s what you do, then- charge him under the adultery statutes that are still on the books, but never enforced.
Get him for littering while you’re at it. I’d rather see autopsy results published, and possibly an autopsy by an independant lab.
Uh, “my training kicked in,” you questioning civilian peon… where’s my frickin’ doughnut!
If the rest of the world were not watching,
if the rest of the world were not _there_
due to a natural or ‘man caused’ disaster,
how would the city of Las Vegas be run ?
That is the question that should be keeping
its residents, and those of other corrupt
cities, awake at night: Katrina and NOLA
being a horrible example.
This case also suggests another common injustice: During a separation and divorce, the courts routinely assume that the wife should remain in the marital home and the husband is forced to move out. Many men find themselves paying for their own apartment and also the house their wife is sharing with a new boyfriend.
With a name like “Ruslan Zhgenti”, (Russian), wife’s name “Sabina Iskenderova” (also Russian), this guy had to be a low life Russian Mafia crook of some kind. Las Vegas is a well known hangout for every form of criminal behavior. I’d say the cop did the country a favor in getting rid of this trash.
Don’t hang the good guys.
See post number two above. The stench is overwhelming.
But then, we CAN’T profile, can we? As far as I can tell, this country’s pigs are FAR more corrupt than the Mafia, Russian or otherwise. “Law Enforcement” has taken an oath to “…preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution…” as a prerequisite for pinning on their badge and stuffin’ a gun in their holster. After that, NOT EVEN ONE OF THEM will bother to honor that oath. The Mafia enforcers ALSO had to take an oath. Ya know what happened to THEM if they dishonored it? Truly is a shame that doesn’t happen to the filthy maggot pigs!
So Mark, I guess we can profile as long as we are profiling the police?
Seem like a lot of “all cops are corrupt” here. All cops are cops. All cops are people. As a subset of people, I find police officers to be a bit less corrupt than average, and a bit more other-oriented. If you want a group that can reasonably be assumed to be corrupt, look to community organizers or liberal trolls… either group have proven themselves to be ends-justify-the-means types.
Same logic the killer cops used. Which one is the good guy? The one that shoots an unarmed man to death in his own home while he sleeps with the mans wife? Are you a union member?
I really hope that this was sarcasm. If it wasn’t, I think you need to haul yourself out to the trash. I live in Henderson, and yes we do have a problem with crime, but believe me, practically everyone who lives here is originally from somewhere else. Just because he may have been Russian doesn’t mean he was a criminal. And for the record, the cops here do behave like cowboys. Added to that, they don’t like concealed weapons permit holders, even though Nevada is a “Shall issue” state.
that is about as ignorant a statement as I have ever heard. . . that is like saying ” If a guy is a cop he must be a stinking, lying murderer” just because you know of one or two crooked cops. . . .
Yes, jb, because all Russians are gangsters…
…And all Mexicans are dishonest beaners, all black men are natural athletes and have huge genitals, white men can’t jump (or dance), gay men are invariably fashionable, and the international Jewish Conspiracy cartel is the root of all evil.
How does cop butthole taste?
Why make a point of saying “… was not in uniform and didn’t identify himself as an officer.” in the past cases? In all those case criminals were actively committing crimes. Did you want the officers to yell “Shoot at me first!” before they drew their firearms or shot the criminals?
To make a point of how inconsistent [illogical?] the coroner had become. See Rignerd’s comment at #3.
Las Vegas is just plain scary. Spare me the ‘guy was Russian mafia and deserved it.’ Looks like he walked into an ambush. If the cop had been a civilian and the late Zhgenti had four death holes in him, then what?
Israeli cops have a lot of problems too, but are less likely to shoot me for having been married to their current girlfriend (I think).
Thanks Bob. Simply facinating. I call on each reader of this blog interested in basic American justice to go to Bob’s Confederate Yankee website and read, in stark detail, why the case of Erik Scott, can not, must not, be allowed to be swept under the rug of official lies. Thank you, again, Bob.
The names “Zhgenti” and “Iskenderova” are not Russian, they are Georgian, and the Georgians are famous for their criminal mafias. I would guess that the main cover-up in this case probably is a Georgian-Mafia angle.
I hope that Iskenderova’s immigrant status is being verified and that she will be deported immediately if her she is not here legally.
And if the Georgian mafia is involved, why is a cop literally in bed with one of them?
It all comes back to corruption in the police force. You couldn’t pay me to spend time in Nevada.
Unfortunately, there is very little difference between the police and organized crime. From the Drug War to speed traps to red light cameras, their main emphasis is on extorting money from the people they are supposedly meant to protect.
You’ve become boring.
The truth boring? More like inconvenient.
Sweeping generalizations do not an overarching truth construct. The same terse opinion, without supportive data, posted time and again without further comment do – for many reasons – become boring. Even Al Gore found that out.
Sorry, Simon, I have to disagree. A blanket condemnation of all police officers equating them to the Mafia is not only inappropriate, it just isn’t true.
Now. If you want to mention specific forces (such as, say, I dunno, Las Vegas police), you might be on more solid ground, as long as you had some hard data.
Just how many cases do you need? I’m willing to bet if both Mike and I put up 20 cases each of different police agencies covering up or destroying evidence/ wrongful arrests/shootings on the part of officers /officers being let go on charges that you or I would get thrown into jail for for a long,long time… you would still say that is only 40 cases out of how many police agencies?
The real problem is that all LEOs cover for their “buds”, and do not care about the public’s rights; the public is “them”. LEOs are not doing their job when they don’t protect the public from their bad “buds”. And you saying they are all “Good Guys” just doesn’t cut it. If you want to look there is a minimum of one case like this or worse every week…
It seems to me that Bush’s fealty to the NRA and the illegal and unconstitutional decision of the Supreme Court allowing America to be turned into a shooting gallery has turned the country into the war zone. It is obvious to me that Bush and the Republicans have some responsibility in every gun death in this country.
Let me see, the number of legal firearms in the US has increased exponentially, especially after the One stole the office.
The firearm-related crime-rate has decreased.
Most murders in America are committed by teenagers (read gang members) whose communities are voting democrat.
As to the Constitution and the Second Amendment … well, that would be like describing colors to blind. I’ll pass.
Your comment’s lack of logic points to the response of one with an “agenda”. The facts of this case, police officers with weapons, not civilians, don’t support your agenda in any manner. Don’t you feel a little silly jumping in here with that BusHitler crappola?
People suffering from BDS have an invincible sense of rightness that no fact can ever pierce.
In a normal world, these people would be called psychotic. Nowadays, we just call them Democrats.
I really can’t say anything more than “You’re an idiot.”
Vinnie, by using your logic, and the actual facts that crime is down, YOU and your Liberal Criminals are responsible for every gun death in the US. Pleasse turn yourself in right away.
I live in downtown LV within a “high-crime” ZIP code. Thus far, the only threats to my safety have come from: A. people driving way too fast and recklessly (e.g., 60 on a narrow street with houses) B. People stalking me from their cars and C. People accosting me to make obviously false claims.
When you subtract those cases in which the perpetrator was a cop, I have yet to have a bad experience in my neighborhood.
It’s so bad in this city, I’d prefer to return to the days of fighting crime with citizen posses. I’d feel safer. I wish I were exaggerating.
Lost in the shuffle are the nonfatal cases where police simply detain you and claim you committed a crime because it’s easier than going to the trouble of investigating it, or where they shoot someone’s dogs in their own backyard after breaking into the house of someone mistakenly, or they issue a ticket for being in an HOV lane (which is empty anyway) 25 feet too long. These aren’t the exceptions, this is SOP. There aren’t any good cops in this town. There are bad ones and the ones who cover for them.
These aren’t the exceptions, this is SOP. There aren’t any good cops in this town. There are bad ones and the ones who cover for them.
“I have been a Cop in Las Vegas for over 22 years. I work with some of the finest people I have ever met, and for one of the best Departments in the country.”
Dilemma, should I trust a cop or a citizen telling the truth about a Nevada PD? One behind the Blue Wall of Silence or one being the target of police abuse??
Hence my secondary comment at #6. You have my condolences.
This is hyperventilating nonsense. The man may have lived in the home in the past, but did not live there now. He was an armed intruder. I’ll wager anything you want that he was there to kill and got killed instead.
To reiterate. An armed man broke into a house and was shot dead. Screw him.
So you’re the third witness who can testify he was armed? The first who did not have a conflict of interest? Thanks. We needed that testimony to resolve that issue.
Oh, you weren’t there? Then you believe the other witnesses – the ones with conflicts – called “suspects”? Wow.
I have a bridge for sale, cheap, if you’re still in a trusting mood.
Maybe the Justice Dept should investigate the Clark County police force and impose a legally binding agreement for reform.
Yeah, like THAT’s gonna happen. With THIS Justice Department.
My Gosh. I can’t believe what I’m reading on this blog. This discussion against police has turned into an absolute free-for-all with the vast majority of posters voicing their anger at the police.
I admit I can’t speak for Nevada law enforcement having been a cop for 25 years in South Dakota, but for what it’s worth your comments are just crushing the life out of me.
I had only one complaint (unfounded: private investigator who worked for defense attorneys and hated cops) and was credited with saving six lives. I never used deadly force. I never used excessive force. I NEVER forgot who I served, even when I was placing someone in handcuffs knowing the intervention could be just what was needed to help the person turn their life around.
I spent a considerable amount of time in court listening to EVERY defendent commit perjury. Not one was ever charged with the crime. My testimony was always truthful, I brought only “good” cases before the court and my reputation was impeccable. These were the words used not by me but by the judges and states’ attorneys I worked with every day.
I was blessed with outstanding people skills, and my words and deeds were always genuine and from the heart. I cared about people regardless who they were or what they did because I was an unabashed Christian who viewed each violator for who they were; children of God.
I NEVER looked the other way when an officer was in the wrong. Any officer who knowingly violated their oath of office deserved to be
punished and, if necessary, either fired and/or arrested.
It’s one thing to admonish the occasional rogue cop. It’s something else to broadbrush the entire profession as corrupt and evil.
Notice I’ve avoided telling stories about the people I helped. That’s because they are too numerous to detail. I won three professional awards for valor and professional conduct, including improving community relations. The awards were nice but they weren’t what kept me going for a quarter of a century. I had a heart to serve and gave it everything I had. To read these comments I must admit I thought I had stumbled accidentally onto the ACLU or NBPP websites.
Regardless, God bless you all with special blessings for the thousands of men and women who serve with distinction and honor.
Please ignore the Philistines. They don’t know any better. 10-98.
Some are painting all cops with that brush, but Gannon didn’t. He has said, and I agree with him, that the good cops (like you) are being tarnished by the bad cops. You know there are corrupt police forces out there. I’m glad that yours wasn’t one of them, but they do exist and they are destructive and dangerous and, unfortunately, they need to be highlighted so something will be done about them.
Digger, I read most of these posts thinking maybe I was on HuffPo by mistake. I have a son who serves with dedication and honor as a deputy. He and thousands of other equally dedicated men and women put their lives on the line every day for you and me. You cop haters have no idea what these public servants deal with every day. My son was the first responder to a suicide of a 12 year old boy who hung himself-the call where the a so called mother set her baby in boiling water for wetting his pants-the accident scene where a drunk driver caused another car to roll and decapitated the innocent driver- he has been cut with razors, hit with beer bottles, bitten, punched and kicked. Yes, he gives you a ticket for driving too fast in a school zone, but he remembers the 9 year old who was hit in the school crosswalk by a woman driving 20 miles over the speed limit while talking on her cell phone. Digger is right. You paint every cop with the same brush as the corrupt few. I am proud of my son, and trust that his training and experience will keep him safe, and preform his job with honor. I know he, and the thousands of other cops all over the country take the public trust seriously and do the best job they can do for us. I hope none of you ever need to call a cop, but even if you hate them, they will come.
One more thing…thank you, ditch digger, for the job you have done and continue to do for your community. Thank God we have men and women like you who perform this difficult job. Oh yeah..don’t forget to say ‘Thanks’ when an angry citizen tells you that he pays your salary…
None of that has anything to do with the case at hand. Honestly, what is with this reflexive defense of any cop, anywhere just because he’s a cop? So your son is an honest cop. Great. He’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about a cop who was sleeping with another man’s wife in the man’s own home. Then when the man comes by his own goddamn house, cop shoots him 4 times and kills him. No inquiry, no investigation. Nothing.
Oh yeah..don’t forget to say ‘Thanks’ when an angry citizen tells you that he pays your salary…
Sorry, mom, but most cops are not polite when that topic is brought up. In fact, most cops get attitude the second a non-cop expresses any difference of opinion with any police policy or action. Not long ago at the Woodward Dream Cruise I was having a polite discussion with one officer, but one of his buddies kept getting increasingly agitated over what I was saying because I was clearly not deferential. Finally he started getting personally insulting to me, though I had not said a single insulting thing. Cops find it insulting when non-cops say anything about “the job” other than being deferential and obsequious. I can assure you that I know about being a cop than most cops know about my jobs.
Nothing pisses off cops, badge bunnies and holster sniffers than reminding them that cops work for the public.
The truth hurts, don’t it?
I spent a considerable amount of time in court listening to EVERY defendent commit perjury. Not one was ever charged with the crime. My testimony was always truthful, I brought only “good” cases before the court and my reputation was impeccable. These were the words used not by me but by the judges and states’ attorneys I worked with every day.
So, because one cop is honest, I should believe the rest of them? Talk to any lawyer who has ever practiced criminal law. Virtually all cops lie on the stand. They may be small lies, they may be complete perjury, but they do lie.
Since you claim to never have tolerated bad behavior by cops, please tell us the names and ranks of the officers you reported to internal affairs or testified against. If you won’t tell us those names, well you’re just another cop without much credibility.
What have you done, personally, to distinguish yourself from what you call the few rotten apples? Have you investigated them? Arrested any? Do you turn the crooked ones, even those a little over the top, into social outcasts within the Blue Gang?
I didn’t think so.
If you cannot distinguish yourself from the pack, then you are no different.
You were a cop in a Red, non-Southern State.
Southern cops are bullies. They won’t kill you though, just put a beatdown on you.
NV is a Blue State, thus the cops are corrupt, because the Democratic Party is corrupt. THEY will kill you!
I live in WA, nominally a Blue State, but mostly they are blue-leaning Indies. So, the cops here are not brutal, but they do arbitrarily enforce the law, and the public defenders here are truly pathetic.
I admit I can’t speak for Nevada law enforcement having been a cop for 25 years in South Dakota, but for what it’s worth your comments are just crushing the life out of me.
They voted Reid back in. That should tell you everything by itself.
Communities like that become Democrat Fiefdoms. I’m not joking here. They are literally fiefdoms, run by an aristocracy that cannot be held accountable to any laws. Check Ted Kennedy and the bridge manslaughter incident.
Places like New Orleans also count. Louisiana State Police know very well that NOPD are fixing the books and not reporting assaults as assaults. LSP is conservative since the state is in the south. New Orleans is a Democrat fiefdom. Like Chicago. Like Los Angeles. That’s what all the gangs are for.
Someone said that the biggest gang in NY is the NYPD, and we all know its history. The same applies to departments from Miami to Minneapolis, Seattle to Philadelphia.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/nyregion/28iab.html?_r=1
“That, by at least one way of reckoning, makes them routine: From 1992 to 2008, nearly 2,000 New York Police Department officers were arrested, according to the department’s own annual reports of the Internal Affairs Bureau, an average of 119 a year.”
Corruption in MN http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F00D17F9385412738DDDAE0A94DE405B828CF1D3
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/how-the-lapds-gangbusting-division-became-a-death-squad-724646.html
I’m happy to learn that South-Dakota is free of corruption and bad cops. Yay!
Seriously, Tim Ackerman, you need a reality check. Based on your data:
arrests of officers in an agency the size of NYPD equals about .0039% of staff a year, or just over one third of one per cent, which if true means the NYPD is purer than Ivory Soap. You gotta get a grip on, man. I agree there are some dirty cops in some places, but your data doesn’t support your “the sky is falling” premise.
I wasn’t aware I had a ‘sky is falling’ premise. BTW, you’d check you math, I got 0.34%! But, that is till 2000 officers, live human beings with a gun being rotten cops.
2000 caught – how many didn’t get caught or were ignored? – rotten cops in NY alone can wreak a lot of havoc and misery to the law-abiding citizens.
I’m sure the ‘New York Finest’ and the “Nevada’s Finest’ love your support.
The fact of the matter is law-abiding citizens are being murdered by cops and their get away with murder.
Wanna count the ‘low percentage’ of US citizens being slaughtered with cops?
Tim:
Where in my posts did I ever claim SD was free of corruption? BTW, I played a role in turning IN bad cops but what I won’t do is turn AGAINST my profession.
Not that it matters, but I’ve already reached the conclusion that you’re not a very nice person. Just how may times have you been arrested?
I’ll bet your disliked by your neighbors, too.
Name for me, (if you can), one career field in the world where you do not at some point in time, have a corrupt/incompetent/rogue person in that career field. Cops are one of the few career fields in the world that specifically have people assigned to investigate them, and only them. Some of those people are good, and some are bad, just like every other career field out there. The broad sweeping condemnation of police officers that I cam seeing here are asinine, and don’t do the overall concern with this case any good. I don’t know exactly what the criteria is for the Clark County Coroner to do a inquest is, but it appears from the reports that I have seen they don’t have any problem with the legality of the case. That being estranged, and soon to be ex-husband enters his wifes residence without permission, allegedly armed, and is shot by a off duty officer who is there with her. The number of bullets that were used is really irrelevant to the case, since you can get off 4 rounds with semi-auto handgun in 2 seconds. Now if all 4 rounds were in his back, you would have some questions.
The real questions that need to be asked here, before everyone starts shrieking “cover up”, are as follows: Did the dead guy have a firearm or another deadly weapon, when he entered the residence? Did he have a weapon registered in his name, with the state? If this was he and his estranged wifes residence, did his wife have a personal protection order, or a order from a probate judge, that barred him from entering that residence? Even more so, if this was his wife’s residence where she had moved and was not their joint property, did he have a legal right to be there to begin with? I know in some states you could legally shoot him the minute he stepped foot into your residence without your permission. What are Nevada’s laws references of deadly force against intruders? In other words would she have been legally justified in shooting him if they were separated, and he entered the residence without permission, armed, and confronted her? If she would have been justified, then can the off duty officer who was legally armed, but in a private citizen status, act as her agent in her defense?
The article really is not clear on some important information that I, as a rational adult, would need in order to form a opinion that all the police in Clark County, along with the Coroner, are corrupt murdering bastards. It might be helpful if some of the folks here armed themselves with something other than hyperbole, and straw man arguments, before they go damning every cop in the US. The vast majority of us bust our asses every day, get saddled with an average of ten years less life expectancy on average, than the rest of you. Get spit on, stabbed, shot, run over, kicked in the nuts more often than the rest of you, (women fight dirty), deal with neanderthals for administrators, (love those 60′s and 70′s era cops), work holidays, weird shifts, and get exposed to more strange viruses than Mother Teresa. All of this comes along with the realization that every cop comes to after a couple of years on the job, that nothing you ever do is going to change human nature. For every one kid in your jurisdiction that you save from a abusive home, there will be a hundred more that you don’t save, who will go on to breed like rabbits, (just like their parent), and they will almost all do just as shitty of a job raising their offspring, who will in turn not only give you (sadly) job security, but will continue the cycle ad infinitum. After this realization comes, some cops quit, some drink, some just get apathetic, some become as dirty as their customers, and some just try to do as best as they can.
Brad, most of what you say is spot on. But
is the problem, hence the article.
The article can only provide the extent of the public information available, and seems to do just that. That is the point. The unanswered or critical questions that should be clarified were apparently not deemed sufficiently troubling enough for the Coroner to convene an inquest, so only his office and the department employing an officer who killed another man “knows” what supposedly happened.
So thanks to what some see as a culture of either incompetence, stupidity or malfeasance [or possibly a combination of two or more of those factors] on the part of various enforcement agencies and entities in and around Clark County, Nevada, this is another in a series of officer involved fatal shootings that give reasonable and objective persons a nagging feeling truth is being systematically hidden and officers in that county never need to be concerned of dire consequences should they for any reason use a weapon to take another’s life. That doesn’t mean all cops in and around Las Vegas are dirty. What it means is they are not under an oversight methodology that reassures citizens their enforcement efforts are fair and equitable. And they show no desire to change. So if you visit there be forewarned.
Brad said — ‘Name for me, (if you can), one career field in the world where you do not at some point in time, have a corrupt/incompetent/rogue person in that career field.’
Please, name for me (if you can), one career field in the world where you can at some point in time, get away with any crime (including murder) and not have everyone (except a very very very very very very tiny minority) else in that career field covering up for you?
Please, name for me (if you can), any other career field were you are given a pass for not knowing the relevant laws, regulations and statutes?
-Mark E- “Please, name for me (if you can), one career field in the world where you can at some point in time, get away with any crime (including murder) and not have everyone (except a very very very very very very tiny minority) else in that career field covering up for you?”
Mark in the dictionary under the word “hyperbole”, there is a picture of you. I’m not sure which television shows you watch. Sounds like that joke they called “The Shield”. No one covers for any cop that murders someone Mark. Hell, in the last 15 years I have been doing this I have yet to see a cop go through a internal where he was not treated like a injured member of the herd until he was either cleared, or disciplined. No police administrator is going to go out on a limb for a line officer that commits felonies, period.
-Mark E- “Please, name for me (if you can), any other career field were you are given a pass for not knowing the relevant laws, regulations and statutes?”.
Easy, lawyers. They have teams of paralegals who look up relevant case law for them, because no one can be completely versed in every law, ordinance, regulation, ect. At my department we are required to attend a legal update course every 2 years, and are regularly sent emails with the latest Supreme decisions, at both the State and Federal levels, by our training section. Quite a bit of our ongoing training is also dependent upon staffing levels, money (both grants, and local funding), available seating, the list goes on. You want perfect cops Mark? I suggest you get ready to pay a 75% tax rate so we can all get law degrees, the best PPCT training that money can buy, public relations degrees, and while we are at it, can you buy us paramedic licenses too?
What we have been getting here is a few people who have had bad experiences with some of their local armed government employees, and have taken those experiences and extrapolated them into a broad sweeping condemnation of a career field they have little to no knowledge of. Unless you are completely versed in the policies and procedures of the Clark County Coroners Office, as well as the local PD that investigated this case, and have access to a police report that will not be public knowledge until probably the prosecutors office, as well the state Attorney Generals office, signs off on it, you don’t have the relevant information to make a informed decision either way. None of us do. To decide and post otherwise, based upon a assumption, is irresponsible, and asinine.
Name for me, (if you can), one career field in the world where you do not at some point in time, have a corrupt/incompetent/rogue person in that career field. Cops are one of the few career fields in the world that specifically have people assigned to investigate them, and only them.
They’re also one of the few careers where ignorance of relevant information won’t get you fired. Cops like to mock “jailhouse lawyers” and anyone who challenges them on the law, but my experience with my local PD is that the average cop has no clue what the laws really are. I’ve been threatened by cops for not having a business license when black letter ordinances in this city don’t require me to have one. I’ve had a local cop exercise prior restraint of my free speech at a city council meeting, telling me that I couldn’t say something even though I was compliant with city ordinances and council procedures.
One could argue that the mere existence of Internal Affairs departments is proof positive that cops are more prone to being corrupt than those in other professions. The facts that cops have to be policed themselves is hardly a ringing endorsement for the general standards of your average cop. I’m sure that you’ll say that they have more temptations than the average worker. More tempting than oxycontin to an anesthesiologist? More tempting than cash in a cashier’s drawer?
Nope, cops have to be policed because cops tend to break the law and abuse their authority.
It’s interesting that with all the cop shows that have been on tv, there’s never been a show about internal affairs. My guess is that the LAPD wouldn’t be so cooperative with the producers when it comes to location shots and closing off streets.
“The Clark County Coroner’s Office claims that since Little was off-duty and used his own personal weapon there would not be a coroner’s inquest into Zhgenti’s death.”
That simply doesn’t parse. A “claim” is an assertion, nothing more unless supported by facts. If the author is correct that the Clark County Coroner’s Office has several times investigated killings by off-duty policy officers using their own personal weapons, then as the late Desi Arnez would have said to wife Lucy, then they have some “splainin to do.” And in any case, it doesn’t much matter why they saw fit to have a coroner’s inquest in those other cases when matters appeared so straightforward on their face, the question is why none in the instant case, when things don’t appear at all straightforward and there is so much reason to be skeptical about the “self-defense” excuse.
Little fired at least four times, hitting Zhengti each time, but Zhengti got off no shots before he died? Did any of the bullets fired by Little strike Zhengti in the back, not where one one expect if it were indeed self-defense, or from above as might have happened if Zhengti was already down when Little fired extra rounds to be sure he had dispatched Zhengti? How did Little explain his presence in Iskenderova’s place at the time, if he did? I don’t even watch the TV shows that center on murder investigations and forensic evidence, but these questions seem so obvious that it’s hard to believe that they would be skipped over by authorities charged with investigating possible homicides.
Wow. Just…Wow!
I’m with you, Ditch Digger. This is truly …..I don’t know how to describe it. I have been a Cop in Las Vegas for over 22 years. I work with some of the finest people I have ever met, and for one of the best Departments in the country. The LVMPD handles hundreds of thousands of calls for service every year, literally. In a County with over 1.5 million residents not counting the visitors. Some of which includes every type of con-artist, thief, burglar, doper, crackhead, robber and prostitute known to man. We keep these folks from ruining the lives of the other honest folks or at least try as hard as we can to. Where are you critics when we’re up to our eyeballs?
I have regularly been called literally every name in the book over the years, but usually that has been by suspects or people so emotionally overwraught that they needed to vent. So far in this thread, I and the Men and Women I work with have been either directly or indirectly accused of being pigs, cowboys, arrogant, corrupt, Mafia gangsters, and even extortionists. OK, I and almost every Cop who has ever had to work in a bad neighborhood has heard those before. That’s if he is doing his JOB.
But MURDERER? If not personally, by virtue of my “willingness to cover up” a murder to protect another cop? Willing to either commit or cover up a HOMICIDE. Good GOD! ARE. YOU. SERIOUS?
Look, folks. I would be willing to bet that most of you live in jurisdictions that don’t even have a Coroners Inquest or the equivalent. Most Agencies in the United States submit the case, (many times the file is several inches thick) to the local District Attorney and they review the facts of the case. Then, after the investigation and review is complete, an announcement is made to the media detailing any criminal charges and how the case will either proceed or not. RIGHT?!
And in most jurisdictions, that’s the end of it.
In Las Vegas, it is not the end of it. This community has the ADDITIONAL proceedings of a Coroners Inquest. This is an attempt to maintain an open and aboveboard process for the public to have confidence in the Department that works for them. Officers testify in a non-criminal proceeding to explain their actions.
This is an outgrowth of the “Mafia” involvment in Las Vegas from long ago AND the sincere desire by our Department to serve Las Vegas in an open and accountable way, not “sweeping things under the rug”. Yes, we have had our “bad apples”. They were openly dealt with. We have made mistakes. We have also acknowledged them, and worked to prevent them happening again. We have more than met the public half way, and should. We work for THEM.
Most Jurisdictions don’t have this extra step. Most of you here want to turn this into a second bite of the apple. One more chance to put the cop on trial. That was never the intent of the Inquest. If the Cop was going on trial, HE WOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN CHARGED.
Like I said, I have put up with being called a lot of names over the years, spit on, bled on, puked and pi–ed on, but accusing me or the folks I work with of MURDER or Conspiracy to MURDER after the fact is a bridge to far. You people need to get a breath of air.
I salute you for what you do, Gary S, and for the courage to respond here. Only idiots would think every LV cop is bad to the bone – and “Yes”. there are several of that type regularly commenting on PJM law enforcement topic posts. FYI I’ve testified in a couple of dozen inquests in multiple jurisdictions, so understand their use and limitations.
That said, your county coroner – no matter how professional you believe Mike Murphy to be – has for some reason manipulated the proceedings of two recent highly publicized officer involved shootings, and through that process has managed to receive way too much negative national attention and reaction, particularly on this site.
If true, the post author’s claim:
either speaks to a higher than normal degree of professionalism within your ranks, or a culture of cover-up. After the one-sided and self-serving questions permitted by Coroner Murphy during the Eric Scott inquest, most experienced officers and informed citizens commenting here seem to lean toward believing the latter, not the former.
One other comment, sir, IMO the Henderson PD was ill-served being the lead investigating agency for the instant case. Their fairness and objectivity can never be proven and their chief should have realized that from the gitgo and asked another agency to take the lead. That procedure is common practice in my state, and goes a long way toward removing any semblance of “favoritism”. Again, thanks for what you do.
Wow. You really are one dumb cop. The Coroner’s Inquest is not there as an added layer of protection for the citizenry. It is there to protect cops by providing the whitewash. Not one bad shoot? Ever? Not even in the most dubious circumstances?
You may be a good cop, but as long as your eyes are closed to the systemic corruption, as long you buy the way they sell it, you are, at best, a stupid cop. A knave or a fool, the results are the same. Cops kill people and they walk, because such as you look the other way, or just won’t see.
Do us all a favor. If you are a good cop, look into it yourself. See if they’ll even let you see the files. I bet they won’t. If they do, you will have plenty of questions. If you are a good cop. Next time you post, come with specifics.
NICE! Let’s see. More baseless ad-hominum, insults and even psychological counseling. Oh, and a precondition to my ever posting again. Thanks for your input!
MM, You are so far off with the opinions you express re: inquests, etc., it’s as if you came to a gunfight with a water pistol.
I was puzzled by the four bullets in the article supposedly supporting the case that Clark County police were killing wantonly. Given the scant information, I felt the cases were likely justified use of deadly force. The fourth case was not even a shooting? The author needs editing, methinks.
In each bullet the author repeats the mantra, “didn’t identify himself as an officer”. If the case was life and death (one says the officer was shot already), this distinction seems weak tea to me.
I briefly read the comments and few seemed to notice this article was making a rather poor case.
I do give the police the benefit of doubt. They have to deal with the ugly situations we are able to shrink from. They deserve that much.
“Benefit of the doubt”. I would give it, too, if it were just one bullet without returned fire, or maybe even two. But it was four shots that hit their mark without any being fired back by the decedent Since the ex-husband and the visiting male friend/shooter were supposedly both trained police officers, it doesn’t seem logical the ex-husband was armed or “up-to-no-good”. That issue sticks in my craw, and if an inquest had been held would probably have been thoroughly explored. But it wasn’t, so we are talking about it here.
I’d have a lot more faith in the ‘good cops’ if they even ONCE stood up to the corruption. Without that, they’re not good, just not actively evil. These are the ones entrusted with enforcing our laws. They should know the law (that’s a laugh), be moral and emotionally stable (damn, another 33% gone), be paid twice what they get now, and stand much greater punishment for legal infractions.
But as is is, they shut up, put up, and go for the pension. Thanks, but no thanks. I don’t define good that way.
If you are a LEO or a brain surgeon, you cannot have a bad day at work. If you do, you could ruin someone’s life. Find another occupation if this is too onerous for you.
Self regulation does NOT work.Look at the banks and how mortgage rates went up as soon they were given self-regulation.Police cannot and will not regulate themselves.It must be done by a body of their peers.It is civilians who are supposed to believe what the police tell them,so let the civilians be convinced that the police acted within the parameters of ‘good policing’.
The coroner can set up a committee which changes every time,from the voter registry,to hear the evidence in EVERY shooting involving a police officer. If enough people contact their local whatever,it could be done.Also,once implemented ,it would spread, because a lot of communities feel uneasy about police powers.
What we have been getting here is a few people who have had bad experiences with some of their local armed government employees,
Actually, every interaction I’ve ever had with police has been negative.
In addition to the Henderson CO sheriff, another example is the Prince George’s County (MD) Sheriff’s Department.
In Los Angeles, it is odd how any kid who has troubles with the police is immediately identified as a “gang member.” Of course there are far too many gang members (read: drug dealers) but the police have this gang identification default which frees them to act in almost every case with impunity.
The police then resort to a trumped up menu of charges, many baseless, and come up with huge potential sentences and then force the kid to settle for less only if he waives his rights to a trial, an appeal, etc. Remember, these kids generally don’t have the $$$ to hire a decent lawyer and the court’s defense attornys are an embarrasement. But in the last analysis nobody cares if a minority kid is railroaded into a long sentence within a justice system that only cares about scalps on the scoreboard.
When I read this article I thought “I’ll respond in the morning, there is too much to say tonight.” But I found the attitude, bad writing and some of the comments were so irritating I couldn’t sleep. Why? Because I know better. Like Digger, I spent a career in police work, almost all of it on the street as an officer, a detective, anti-gang task force member and an intelligence officer. So when I speak to this, it is not an opinion taken from too many hours in front of the boob tube like some of you. Nor is it from a place where I think the police can do no wrong. We have bad apples and make bad decisions all the time. Why? And try to keep up for this is a bouncing ball moment for some of you- “We are human.”
For too long we have, as a society, wanted to have its cake and eat it too when it comes to law enforcement. You want people who are no more talented than most of you, or braver, or smarter or more even tempered than most of you to handle the vilest, most dangerous, twisted elements of society so you don’t have to and at the same time do it without error.
I was told years and years ago an observation a veteran cop told me he found to be true- “Most people don’t care what you do in order to keep them safe, they just don’t want to see you do it.” Most people have no idea what we face or what we do every day. I can absolutely guarantee most of you would go home and quit after the first tour in some cities, convinced every cop on the force was insane to take the abuse offered up by their jurisdiction. In fact we had a guy just like some of you commenting on this site. The guy was a liberal who thought he could do better than the cops because he was enlightened. He made it out of rookie school and almost all the way through FTO training. Then one day he just quit. They sent a Sgt to his house to see what happened. He said he had a “day of reflection” (true story) and realized he couldn’t cut it. Why? Because on that day’s tour he found himself staring down the barrel of a gun held by a husband trying to kill his wife. For a second he said he thought “I’ve got kids, a wife, a future, and it was all gone if that guy pulls the trigger.”
I read the author’s supporting cases showing how the police are killers because of the deaths they caused in the line of duty. His lack of knowledge about the law, policy and procedure is stunning. PJM should revisit their offer to let him write without some editorial control. I’ll be brief so to ease the suffering. First there is no rule- except on TV- that we have to identify ourselves before we shoot you up. We try to, we would like to, but we don’t have to. If you are waving a gun around, shame on you for not being smart enough to grasp that the guy in front of you might be armed also.
As for the death in custody. We really do try hard to avoid them. The vast, vast majority of police officers would love nothing more than to do their duty for their careers and never pull a gun, harm a person or be involved in the death of anyone, even bad guys. We train hard to minimize risk for everyone involved.
As for the most recent example of the armed guy looking to confront his estranged wife IN HER HOME late at night, what exactly was he trying to accomplish? Cheating on him isn’t a crime and probably not even something he should care about since she dumped him. If he is a Russian, well I’ll bet more money on his intent being bad than you should that he was just coming by to say hi. (Oh and BTW the brother saying he’s a good guy means less than nothing. John Gotti’s family swore he was legit too.)
I’ve commented on my site a number of times about the dark and violent world we operate in while cleaning up the underside of our society. The fact the vast majority of us keep getting up every shift, putting on our gear and walking in to work, hoping that this shift is going to be a good one and that we can help a citizen rather than having to confront one is a testament to the honor, faith, loyalty and sacrifice good cops offer up every day. We’ll die, on average, fifteen years younger than you because of the physical and mental stress we face every day, we’ll suffer from nightmares, depression, suicide and often find ourselves divorced and estranged from family because we EAT so much darkness…so YOU don’t have to.
Are police corrupt? Sure, some are. Can entire department be corrupt? No, but good parts of some can be. Chicago comes to mind, as does Detroit and Miami. (A lot of that can be attributed to political correctness and affirmative action hiring practices.)
But the vast majority of the mistakes you see us do is because we are humans asked to do superhuman tasks, without error. That world does not exist. There is no fairy dust, unicorns or genies with three wishes in the real world, and there are no perfect cops. Just men and women doing their best in a bad situation.
Don’t like us. Don’t call us. Handle it yourself. We’ll be glad to clean up what’s left of you after you bungle it as you will be destined to do if you carry the attitudes some of you have exhibited here today.
Then stay the hell out of the way. Or honor your oath. Either one works. But its at best, “Law Enforcement” in this country is Sergeant Schultz “I see nothing!” And at it’s worst, it makes the Mafia enforcers look like angels. If “Law Enforcement” won’t clean itself, it had better expect to be cleaned in the upcoming civil war. The stench is overwhelming.
Geez another cop getting his feelings hurt. If you dont like us then don’t call us? Are you kidding? Real mature 4th Grader. Are you going to take your ball and go home now? You expect sympathy because your job is stressful? You are the one who signed up for it. If it’s too stressful then find a different occupation. Is your argument that because his job is so stressful that we shouldn’t hold an inquest in this instance? Last I checked thats what this whole article was about. Maybe you should type less and go back and re read it.
Matis-
A couple of points.
One, there is a vast difference between corruption and honest error. In the regard of self-policing, I’ll put our people up against ANY professions out there including doctors (how many accidents and mistakes do they make a year? Hundreds of thousands?), lawyers (OMG- unless you are in my former field or in the profession you have no idea how bad they are and how many mistakes they make), judges (I could tell you stories of the misconduct of judges and how nobody polices them), CPAs, plumbers, electricians and on and on.
Remember unless you are absolutely surrounded by a corrupt department (again Chicago or Detroit comes to mind) with generations of protective mindset you have a number of good ways to bring light to a problem; media, police boards, IA, district attorney, etc. Now you might find yourself blunted if your complaint is about the officer yelling at you and hurting your feelings (except where I used to work, because our IA and the SA loved bagging cops), or giving you a ticket or maybe if you got roughed up because you were fighting back during an arrest (again unlike TV you need to realize we have powers, given to us by the public, that allows us to take you into custody even if you disagree). However, legit issues will be addressed. Believe me, I’ve been involved in them, or witness to them over the years and found most were fair decisions. Maybe not the ones you would like or I might like, but the vast majority are just.
As for your upcoming civil war issue. Do not confuse the feds with the local PD. If you took time to review my site you’d find I’m not a fan of any police agency- local, state or federal- that holds or wields too much power. Why? Because being human, some police let that power go to their heads. Often they are corrected by other officers or by circumstance. Back in the nineties the ATF got all excited and made some very famous mistakes. I was appalled at the level of cover up initiated by the FBI and the Clinton administration. But, remember that was pure politics. The Clintons did not give a hoot about the officers, only the blowback their transgressions caused. But also remember we know what happened then because of the system, which in that case involved Congress, and the truth ruled at the end of the day. If you remember the ATF (which on an individual level the agents are very decent people trying to fulfill a screwed up mandate) cooled their collective jets after that all came to light.
The local police, much like local politics, is most responsive to the needs and the concerns of the citizens it is charged with policing. All I am saying is to allow for leeway when judging other humans trying to do a very tough job. If you can’t that you’ll find yourself constantly irritated and convinced that there are conspiracies abounding. Truth is, we aren’t that capable. I’ve seen all types of cops and only a very select few could manage even the simplest “cover up” if that!
As for the oath. I find your comments offensive. You have no idea what we do to keep that oath are you would have remained silent. When I was working criminal gangs back in the nineties we were doing so well their only viable options was to attack us personally. We had a CI inside the gang warn us that the leaders were discussing how to find our houses and burn them to the ground with our families inside. In my case, I had a pregnant wife. Needless to say that didn’t go well for them. But the point I make is this- I’ll be in your life your job didn’t cause your wife (assuming someone married you) to fear for her life and the life of her unborn daughter.
Lastly, and you must really pay attention here, I do not disagree that this nation can suffer some kind of crisis, if you look at my site, you’ll see I wrote a novel about just that subject, the original manuscript completed in 1996. So, I’m way ahead of the curve. However, that doesn’t mean that if some idiot comes running down my street trying to “clean up law enforcement” I won’t drop him where he stands. Nothing worse that someone with a gun who thinks how things should be but has no real grasp or ability on how to tell the good guys from the bad and only sees a uniform. Believe me, I’ve had enough of that.
Let’s have your comments on this:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/mother-kept-in-glass-cage-for-almost-an-hour-by-tsa-for-resisting-over-breast-milk.html?_login=5685d80ad7/
That’s false imprisonment, or WHATEVER you care to call it in your jurisdiction. WHERE was the fine “Law Enforcement” to arrest the TSA agents who did that?
Let’s try this:
http://www.copblock.org/1015/shocker-police-officers-lie/
Or how about:
http://www.cato.org/raidmap/
And the there’s:
http://reason.com/archives/2010/10/18/americas-most-successful-stop/
And the so-called “good” cops at best are playing Sergeant Schultz. And that has gotten VERY old. Preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution. Not when it’s convenient. Not when it doesn’t get your buddies in trouble. EVERY DAY. The stench is overwhelming.
And please consider these as well:
http://www.pixiq.com/article/undercover-seattle-cop-attacks-two-men-in-two-separate-videos
-and-
http://www.pixiq.com/article/san-francisco-copwatch-member-assaulted-for-videotaping-cop
MANY more where those come from. Enjoy!
Sure, Anyomous and MM,I’ll do a quick scan of each event, noting if you will that there are 600,000 police of all types in America working ten to twelve hour shifts every day of the year. Do the math and see how many “offenses” per man hour you get. A percentage is fine. While you are working on that let me run through the stories.
1. Lady with breast milk. Problem with your anger- Pointed in wrong direction. The officer did not arrest her (good job) Officer TOLD HER WHY SHE WAS GETTING HARASSED!!! (Why do you think he did? Because he didn’t like it either and wanted to give her ammunition to shut the SOBs that were doing it (So, where’s your argument with him?) Oh, that’s right, he didn’t arrest the TSA agent on the spot….hmm… Seems you missed a few things on that. One- there is no regulation, law or policy that says you HAVE to arrest everyone doing anything wrong. Besides, and this is the obvious point, the politicians who wrongly designed the TSA put in roadblocks that give the TSA agents WHO ARE NOT COPS immunity for about anything they do wrong. Why? That is a good question and one I would address if I were President.
Story two- There is part of it missing. But the overall take that the prosecutor (a lawyer) knew the cop was involved with the woman (how big is this city for this to happen?) and they both decided not to tell. Here is the question I don’t see here, where is the daughter’s testimony? What did she say? She was old enough to testify so did she? As for the trial and the diary etc. No doubt the case should have been restarted with a totally new police/prosecutor team assigned. The detective should have been fired, same with prosecutor. No officer should lie on the stand-period. It happens. I don’t abide it.
The story below about the NYPD narcotics officers lying about an dope deal troubles me. But as I have said, certain areas in certain cities are corrupted by bad cops. Again, my point isn’t we are perfect or that all cops are good cops. My point is that the vast, vast majority are good cops. You can’t paint with a broad brush.
Issue three- raids gone bad. First, be careful of what a graph or diagram shows. There is far, far too much information left out by certain groups with an agenda to take this at face value. That said, do you know how many “raids” as Cato calls them have been done in the last ten years by all departments across the nation? Compare that with the number of ones considered “botched” by Cato. I popped up a couple of the icons and noted that one seemed weird on its face, another was the typical feds gone wild deal- however the warrant was valid and there was sales of cocaine and illegals involved. Here’s a hint to keep in mind. As I said before I don’t defend feds. Most of the agents on a personal level are regular guys and gals doing their best. However, when the more aggressive types (I called them the “hut-hut” teams) show up, bad things can and do happen. Oh, there is a PS on this one. I read the article about the young girl getting shot by the police after a raid looking for a homicide suspect in a house. Here’s a hint- if you have a seven year old, don’t hide a murderer in your house. Sometimes people do bad and stupid things that cause the problems. But they like to blame the police.
“Police arrested the target of the raid, a 34-year-old man suspected of killing a 17-year-old boy, in the upstairs unit in the two-family home. Police had warrants to search both properties, and family members of the slain girl were seen going in and out of both on Monday. The suspect has not been charged, and it was not immediately clear what relationship he had to the slain girl.” (From the Detroit News)
Seattle Case with UC drug cop- He’s in trouble and should be. The question is did the officer confuse him with the people he was chasing? Did the kid say or do something to get in the way of the officer? Details are needed. Regardless, if the kid, even if he is part of the dope deal, isn’t resisting or a threat, you have to let him go. We are peace officers first. The video camera in his face afterward that set him off. Professionally, I feel you have the right to do it. However, personally, and only a fool would disagree, it is very offensive and irritating to have someone think they are power over you because of a camera. Especially when they follow that with verbal abuse. You’d blow a gasket, trust me. Imagine mowing your lawn or some other simple task and have a man walking next to you with a camera threatening to “expose you” and MFing you with every breath. Could you finish the lawn? Now attach that to being involved with drug dealers, dopers, guns and foot pursuits and all the adrenaline it brings.
In the last story, San Fran, and all the liberal nutjobs there. Let me get this straight, some citizen feels it is his or her duty to videotape and UNDERCOVER cop (putting that person and that person’s family at risk) for what purpose again?????? Because they can??! Seriously, were you two upset at the NYT revealing the names and locations and photos of the CIA agents involved in interrogating terrorists? If you were then don’t get upset here. I hope they face planted her good. You think you have the right to get us killed with no accountability or response? Hardly. Like I said, you don’t like us, don’t call us.
Frankly, we can break down all the horror stories into three parts. 1. TSA isn’t our problem. They aren’t cops (read my blog). 2. There are bad cops and they should be dealt with, but they are a minority. 3. There are people so set on blaming the failing society on the police they refuse to look at their part in the debacle. Life isn’t perfect, the police aren’t perfect, but they are far better than most. However, some folks just think we are punching bags to take their frustrated abuse and then say “Thank you sir, may I have another.” Let me end this post and then finish in the next with a story to show you what I mean, from Seattle.
So you see NOTHING WRONG with the officer failing to arrest the TSA agent for false imprisonment? That is about what I expect from “Law Enforcement”. The stench is overwhelming.
And let’s get to the last two. So if somebody starts cussing me out and MFing me as I’m mowing my lawn, I get to knock him down and kick him a couple of times, and then some fine “Law Enforcement” officer will come by to cuff him? That’s great! I’m looking forward to that! Or does that only work for the Only Ones?
And on the “undercover cop”, you say he’s supposed to take her word that she’s a cop without her producing ANY ID? Why didn’t I think of that? I mean, surely NO drug dealer or prostitute or bank robber or crooked cop has EVER tried that!
And YOU’RE coming up with this and YOU’RE supposed to be one of the GOOD cops, which you say are the majority of “Law Enforcement”? Filthy. Maggot. Pigs. May you rot where you belong for what you’ve done to this country. The stench is overwhelming.
My last comment on this subject is a story I told while teaching citizen classes. I’ll make it short as possible and still make the final point.
I read a story, I believe the city was Seattle,where black community leaders complained to the police that there was far too much crime in this particular black neighborhood and the police weren’t doing enough. The place was rife with drug dealers, gun toting bangers and wanted persons. So, the police sent in a group of officers to increase patrols and traffic stops and to attempt to reduce the criminal activity. The group they sent in were officers from across the city, some of the officers were white. The police gladly went in and started making contact with the bad guys through street contacts and traffic stops. Arrests skyrocketed, guns and drugs were seized and the neighborhood was being secured.
Then the same community leaders noticed that the people being arrested in the black neighborhood were…wait for it…mostly black. So they looked at the arresting officers, WHO WERE ORDERED TO WORK THERE by the police department, and found most of them were white. The community leaders immediately filed a complaint of racial profiling and the police administration investigated. Sure enough, most of the traffic stops done in the black neighborhood were on black drivers. Sure looked like profiling, so they yelled at their officers for being racists.
Now think about this for a second, be the cop if you can. He looks at his bosses, at the community leaders and if first reaction is “WTF”??? You told me to come here, you told me to arrest the bad guys out of the neighborhood. It is a BLACK neighborhood! What did you think was going to happen? Now you are calling me a racist? For doing what YOU asked of me?
So the officers went on what was called “tourist patrol”. That means that they went in service, picked up a paper, some coffee and a danish, drove to the nearest shade tree and parked. If they were called to a complaint they responded professionally and did what their duty required, but they did not seek out any proactive activity. (that lowers the risk of being called a racist)
The community leaders, noticing that crime was on the rise complained. The paper interviewed a black watch commander who said, and I paraphrase, “I understand exactly why my people did what they did. Would you put up with such bull**it?!” The community leaders were outraged. One actually said, (and again I paraphrase) “The officers should be professional enough to be asked to do a job and then accept the criticism they get for doing that job.”
Now in what messed up unicorn powered, fairy dust sprinkled world do you have to live in to think any man or woman would perform effectively under such silly rules? Seriously. But people there did.
This illustrates what many, and some of you and the people who run the websites appear to believe. The police must do WHAT AND HOW you want them to do things, or they are bad. You might be right, but what if you are wrong or don’t have all the facts? Can that be? Can you be expecting too much from fellow humans who just happen to wear the badge? I do agree all police must be willing (especially the feds) to put up with scrutiny and be held accountable for bad acts. But there is a difference between scrutiny and harassment like shown in the copwatch story.
Enough said about this. Here’s an idea I want you to try, and I’m quite serious. Live without the police for a while. Obviously, you think them bad, stupid, corrupt and dangerous. So when you see something suspicious in your neighborhood- a guy in dark clothing, a parked car at 2am, a noise of someone around your house at night, gun shots, etc.- don’t call. You handle it. See how it goes. Or better yet, how about those great calls we get like the dog barking that won’t shut up, or the neighbor who revs up his engine on his “project” car while you are trying to sleep, or the other neighbor who is too loud or yells at his wife. You go see the problem children. You handle it. Leave out those untrustworthy police. Let them put someone else in mortal danger by responding to their complaints and needs. You go it alone. Be my guest.
Try it for a month or two. Get a couple of good incidents under your belt. If it works out and kudos to you. But I’m betting one of the incidents will bite you in the behind. Then you’ll have this desire to dial 911. But don’t. Work on it for a while. Roll it around in your mind. Ask yourself do your really need the police.
Let me know how it works out.
Except you know VERY WELL that “Law Enforcement” WILL NOT stay out of the way if ANYONE tries to handle it themselves. You think the police are in mortal danger because they spend one shift per day with a 5 day workweek in these neighborhoods? WAKE UP! The REST of the country spends 24 hours a day, 7 days a week there!
Whining about how hazardous police work is when that job doesn’t even make the top 10 hazardous jobs list:
http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/110394/americas-10-most-dangerous-jobs
And yet this is too much for me to ask: HONOR YOUR OATH!
The stench is overwhelming.
And yet more. Four of Maryland’s finest at their best:
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=708&sid=1933026
Fortunately someone had a video camera or the kid would still be rotting in jail.
And of course there’s poor Ms. Johnston:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston_shooting
Mark,
Then apply to become a police officer and fix the world’s problems. Put up or shut up, loser.
Your stench is overwhelming, loser.
Mr. Owens. Thank you for posting such a great article. May be I could help you with the info I happened to know. If you can see my email address, please contact me. Or let me know how can I get a hold of you.
I am the younger brother of Ruslan Zhgenti, who was murdered at his home on sept. 17th in Henderson, Nevada. I am ready to talk.