Seventy-One Shots: The Death of Jose Guereña
Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik infamously railed in January of this year that Arizona is a “Mecca for prejudice and bigotry.”
One must wonder if the “prejudice and bigotry” he considers endemic to Arizona is to blame for the death of U.S. Marine veteran Jose Guereña, killed when Dupnik’s deputies gunned him down in his home. They fired 71 shots. They hit him 60 times. And then, as if this wasn’t enough, Dupnik’s deputies blocked paramedics for an hour and 14 minutes from approaching the scene, denying Guereña treatment until he was assuredly dead.
Dupnik’s SWAT team initially claimed that Guereña fired at them while they were serving a warrant — as he slept. They claimed that his bullets hit the bulletproof shield that the entry team hid behind, and that the barrage of bullets they fired back was in self-defense.
Only, Guereña never fired his weapon. Awoken by his wife with screams that men with guns were invading his home and threatening his family, Jose Guereña armed himself with a AR-15 rifle and crouched in the hallway. The SWAT team unloaded upon Guereña on sight. He apparently recognized the home invaders as police. He took 60 rounds, but never — as the Pima County Sheriff’s Department was forced to admit — took off his weapon’s safety as he was being killed.
Prejudice and bigotry?
It was, you’ll recall, a claim Dupnik made in the wake of Jared Loughner’s bloodly rampage at a “Congress in your Corner” event at a Safeway supermarket in Tucson, where six were killed and 14 others were injured — including, gravely, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords. Dupnik was attempting to blame the conservative Tea Party movement for the shooting when he made the comment. And even after it was revealed that Loughner’s few known political views had been described as “quite liberal,” and were in fact muddled at best, he refused to retract his slur.
So when Dupnik’s teams attempted a complicated four-house raid of minority families looking for drugs, perhaps bigotry and prejudice really was in play.
Perhaps Dupnik’s officers assumed every Hispanic accused of being a drug dealer really was one, and perhaps they assumed that the tenant of a home protecting his loved ones must be a bloodthirsty cartel member waiting in ambush. Is that why they gunned down a tired, hard-working father sleeping off a night shift at the local copper mine? A Marine veteran of Iraq that had the discipline not to fire — a discipline that a trigger-happy SWAT team which has now killed three men in less than a year cannot itself exercise?
Not only has the Pima Sheriff’s Department tried to justify firing 71 shots at one man in a small hallway, hitting him (thankfully, just him) 60 times in a home where his wife and child were present. They’ve attempted to justify their refusal to let a team of paramedics treat Guereña, who was still miraculously alive after being sprayed mercilessly with bullets. It takes a competent SWAT team just a handful of minutes to “clear” a residential home during a raid. Dupnik’s SWAT team refused to declare the scene “clear” for an agonizing one hour and 14 minutes, and not until Jose Guereña had already died.
A cynic might be tempted to suggest Dupnik’s SWAT team was waiting for the only witness to their assault to die. Considering how the Sheriff’s Department has acted since they stormed the home, a rational person might be tempted to agree.
Not content to blame the victim for his own death, they attempted to insinuate he was a drug dealer, even though they were forced to admit under direct questioning that no drugs were found in his home, and that a clumsy cop falling down may have triggered the bloodbath.
Vanessa Guereña claims that neither she nor her husband heard the officers announce themselves as police. As anyone who has ever seen an episode of any popular police reality show knows, no entry team waits 15 seconds after announcing themselves to batter down a door and rush the inhabitants — as Pima County Lt. Michael O’Connor claims his SWAT team did. Identical scenes of immediate entry upon announcement (or after breaching), without giving those inside a chance to react, is a standard tactic captured again and again.
Why Lt. Michael O’Connor decided to tell a mistruth about a well-known, heavily documented, and highly standardized technique isn’t immediately clear. Perhaps it is because of the inevitable wrongful death lawsuit to be filed against the Pima County Sheriff’s Department on behalf of Vanessa Guereña and her two children. Or perhaps it is because of the possible DOJ civil rights investigation. Perhaps Dupnik’s employees simply are unable to act any more professionally after a raid than they do during one.
No-knock warrants are typically used to surprise the target of raids and keep them from disposing of evidence, with possible violence from the offender cited as justification for the military-style use of heavy armor and machine guns.
Jose Guereña’s death was entirely preventable. Over-armed, over-amped law enforcement is causing far more harm to the public than other tactics and techniques possibly could.
The over-militarization of law enforcement agencies and over-use of SWAT teams is an idea that needs to be revisited in a sane society. Too many good people have been traumatized, and too many killed, under the flimsiest of circumstances.
After surviving two tours of duty in Iraq, only to lose his life in an encounter with Clarence Dupnik’s keystone cops, Jose Guereña was buried with full military honors.
Shame, shame, shame, shame, shame. It’s almost as if Pima County deputies are taking their assault operations training from Las Vegas Metro. Shoot first and stonewall later is becoming the MO of far too many under-qualified, second and third rate law enforcement agencies. This is another incident which proves the theory that an enforcement agency will only rise to the competency level of it’s leader. We already knew Clarence Dupnik was less professional than a Keystone Kop, we just didn’t realize until now he is deadly.
Tests should be run on the weapons in that squad to determan who fired. those who fired should be charged with murder and hopefully convicted. dupnick should face the same charges. it is clowns like that who are costing the tax payers billions every year.
I’d hold murder for anyone involved in the hour and 14 minute wait before allowing medical attention.
Yeah, we’ll wait for Eric Holder to take up the flag on this one /sarc
I would tend to agree with that, but if he recognized them as police, why didn’t he immediately put down the weapon? I am not taking sides, I just want to understand.
mzk1, if you watch any of the video pertaining to this event you will see that he was not given time to drop his weapon. Also, MARINES DO NOT LOSE CONTROL OF THEIR WEAPONS! I don’t know what you know about Marines, but I was a Sergeant at Wilcox range a while back and my job was to ensure the safety and training of nearly 500 Marines a week. Do you know how often a rifle comes out of a Marine’s hands while he is on the range doing training? NEVER! NEVER! NEVER! We are taught and teach to maintain control of our weapons at all times and to always be aware of other’s weapons. That is why this Marine didn’t throw down his own ( $1500 ) weapon. It’s that simple. If you don’t understand, then you’re just like 99% of the rest of people.
Vegas Metro was fully justified in greasing the juiced wannabe. Shame on you!
Not arguing, just not following your question. Are you saying the victim was a ‘juiced wannabe’? Wannabe what? I don’t like cop bashing but this whole thing is shady from top to finish – especially considering how many times the official story has changed – it seems you have a different perspective so just curious if there’s more to the story that I’m missing?
greased wanabe ?????
are you refering to the legally carrying veteran
who was murdered by rookie and badly trained vegas metro killers?
at the local Costco store because the duffus clerk did not like the
sight of a gun [legal to carry in Nevada]
the same one who the coroner failed to allow testimony at the inquest
an has bogged down the civil case ?
I don’t believe this will play well with our Marines in the sandbox, or anywhere else for that matter.
This is sure to worry many of our troops over there.
How many will question what they’re fighting for?
How many will remember the oath they swore to defend our Constitution. It’s basically the same oath peace officers swear.
If Dupnik has evidence of serious law breaking at that house he better produce it pronto. If not, I hope he burns in Hell!
Armageddon Rex
LEGALLY….NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING will come of this…nothing.
Dupnik will not be reelected either..
Don’t count on it!
AR, the difference is Marines swear to uphold the US constitution while non-fed cops swear to uphold their state’s constitution, et al. Certain jurisdictions also include the US.
“I don’t believe this will play well with our Marines in the sandbox, or anywhere else for that matter.”
Nope. Hopefully our retired Marines in Arizona can all come out to defeat Dupnik in the next election. It would be even better if one of them in Puma County runs against him.
If you fight for democracy overseas, you may also need to fight for it at home. Different weapons and battle, same ideals and goals.
God bless the USMC!
Over militarized police forces. Indeed; we are a citizenry capable through
our constitution of protecting ourselves from everything except a
government that is clearly, tyrannically out of control on every level.
Until We the people decide it’s time to (en-mass) disband this government
and start anew.
I doubt these people will go quietly into the night.
If the police know or suspect you own a gun, they SWAT first and thats that.
I think the police should “suspect,” or, actually, expect that we all own guns. Should we all, then, be subjected to this kind of intrusion?
LIKE I SAID B4
WHEN DID THE COPS START TO BECOME THE BAD GUYS, THE MOBSTERS, THE TERRORISTS
THE THUGS,
I WAS GOING TO GO INTO LAW ENFORCEMENT UNTIL I SAW WHAT THEY WERE BECOMING
ANY ONE IN LAW ENFORCEMENT NEEDS TO GO TO THIS WEBSITE AND TAKE THE OATH
http://WWW.OATHKEEPERS.ORG
There’s some half billion arms in this country. Good luck to so-called professional law enforcement when the armed populace says enough to militarized cops and their home invasions.
Supposedly, the search warrant only listed the address of the house, and not the residents. You have to wonder, in this sort of situation, what the hell they thought they were doing. Police departments have gotten more and more sophisticated about preventing shooting incidents, generally, especially the bigger departments. You don’t shoot into a house if you don’t know who’s in it, you don’t shoot into a house if you haven’t evacuated the neighbors, and you *never* shoot into a house where there are children and unarmed women–except in the most dire circumstances, which don’t include being confronted with an armed man who doesn’t shoot at you. Until there’s actual gunfire, you don’t shoot. You certainly don’t shoot 71 times. That’s ridiculous.
And remember, via the court decision in Indiana a few days ago, you have *no right* to lawfully resist the police in such a circumstance. If they choose to shoot, they’re within their rights…if you shoot back, you’re violating the law. The right to keep and bear arms is restricted to the government, where the left wants it.
71 shots equals over-reaction. Over-reaction equals panic. Panic equals lack of training. Lack of training equals incompetence at the highest levels. But we already mentioned Clarance Dupnik, didn’t we?
Two nights ago at 2:00 AM I was pulled over by a policeman for driving through ‘town’ at 70 mph. I said “What town?” ‘Town’ was Kiowa, Oklahoma, a stop sign along highway 69. The ticket is for $160. He could have killed me, with impunity probably, and so I guess I’ll be thankful he was only after my money.
Political correctness demands that we praise that policeman and hold him up as some kind of heroic figure. Conservative talk radio is always gushing about how great the cops are, but it’s kind of hard to swallow when one considers the killings of innocents, by cops, in Costco, Nevada and Dupnik, Arizona, and when one’s own personal encounter with them results in one having to send them money to keep out of one of their jails.
Stop with your myths. Conservatives have usually supported police when shown videos of protesters taunting police and law enforcement, not home invasions. Conservatives abhor home invasions of any kind. Conservatives do not support police entering a home while shooting, not knowing who or how many are in the home. To imply that this is the result of “Conservative talk radio is always gushing about how great the cops are….”, is ludicrous, just as blaming conservatives for the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords because of “target” maps. Complete idiocy.
Your response is a lot like the knee-jerk praise conservative talkers heap on the police. The fact is the police are the muscle of the government and a large part of their work consists of shaking down motorists and keeping ‘the people’ in line. When the government wages war against the Bill of Rights and the principles set forth in the Declaration of Independence as it did in Waco in ’93, it is the police who dress and arm up like ninja assassins and drive the flame-throwing tanks against ‘the people’. If I meant to imply anything it was that if the government is good, the police will be good, and if the government is bad, the police will be bad, and it is silly for some conservatives to rail against too much government and but laud the most oppressive manifestation of too much government, the police.
Patrick,
Which jurisdictions deploy tanks with flamethrowers? You’ve got me curious.
I am conservative, and outraged by the police excesses of late. Also by the rediculous court decision that effectively allows policemen to enter our homes without warrants and kill us. If anything, it’s the liberal love of the all-encompassing nanny-state that encourages this type of thing, not the conservative love of limited government…
Patrick, let’s be fair for a moment. On Hwy 69, the speed limit is 65mph in a lot of places. As you come into the small towns out here, the speed limit drops, sometimes all the way down to 25mph; it does so somewhat gradually, but is very well marked as the speed drops in 10mph increments. Now that I have explained that to the readers not familiar with the area, I’ll ask you a couple of easy questions… you said you were doing 70mph. That’s exceding the speed limit, right? So you broke a law, right? So now you have a problem with a cop doing his job and writing you a ticket? Did you raise your kids to believe rules were only made to be followed when it’s convenient?
The posted highway speed limit is 70 mph and the sign is white with black lettering. Where a road intersects there’s a yellow sign indicating an intersection and a limit of 55 mph posted. I’ve seen this ridiculous situation on other highways and in other states. It’s purpose is to facillitate the shake-down industry of traffic ticket writing.
One note that might interest you.- A few years ago the Oklahoma Highway Patrol stopped writing traffic tickets for several months because it was in a dispute with the legislature over how the money generated from the ticket racket was being spent. During the moratorium traffic fatalies on Oklahoma highways decreased.
Yes we support cops because most of them are fine members of their communities who are genuinly trying to make their communities safer.
So GENERALLY SPEAKING cops are great people.
Are there bad eggs? Yes.
Do some deserve the criminal treatment? Of course.
Does this deter from the overall setup which is generally good?
NO.
Those officers were a combination of bad eggs and twitchy trigger fingers. I’d probably do the same. That excuses 1 or two shots and NONE of what happened afterwards.
Get your facts straigh buddy.
Forget liberal vs conservative, this man was gunned down in his home for no apparent reason, and you’re sitting here whining about a speeding ticket?
I wish people would ask themselves (at least) two questions before they attempt to speak:
1. Is this right?
and 2. Is this important?
You, however, should just avoid speaking all together.
I’m not whining about getting a traffic ticket, I’m whining about being imposed upon by federal, state, county, and city pigs. It’s impossible to avoid them. Some people love them, though, probably you. They’re the kind of people who go to the airport just to get patted down and probed by the pigs there, the TSA.
Thanks to the TSA, grandma can’t hijack your airplane and fly it into a building.
I feel so much safer just thinking about that….;-).
Patrick,,,,”PIGS???” Good Lord, that went out in the early 70=s. Are you still living in the past? You are certainly way off topic.
Every cop there including that sorry excuse they call a sheriff should be indicted for 1st degree murder. Absoulutly no excuse for shot one being fired at this HERO.
I hope his wife cleans out the county treasury and maybe those suffering from the mental illness that got this clown elected will wake up and put in a recall on him and run him clear out of the state.
Forget liberal vs conservative for a minute. This guy was gunned down in his home for no apparent reason, and you’re whining about a speeding ticket?
I wish people would ask themselves (at least) two questions before they speak:
1. Is this right?
and 2. Is this important?
You, however, should just avoid speaking all together.
DISARMING OF AMERICA SO THAT WHEN THE SOCIALIST/MARXIST TAKE CONTROL
THEY WONT WORRY ABOUT FREEDOM FIGHTERS
TOO MANY THUG COPS NOT ENOUGH REAL ONES
MIGHT AS WELL BE IN MEXICO “PAY THE MONEY, WE LET YOU GO . HA HA HA”
” DO NOT COMPLY WE SHOOT YOU”
And if they shoot you until they run out of bullets? Oh well, accidents happen. Nothing to see there.
If it takes 71 shots to kill a guy standing (or even crouching) in his hallway, Pima County needs a new SWAT team. In that case, they simply should have thrown in a few hand grenades and called it a day. It also seems that the SWAT team didn’t give this man, let alone his family, a chance to surrender. If the family of this dead Marine is smart, they should sue the County for millions. Maybe if they lose a case like this, the county will learn not to have fools running their SWAT team.
The cops won’t actually lose any money. Even the county won’t. It’ll be their insurance company. The tax payers will then pick up the tab when the insurance premiums go up.
What is actually needed is to strip the police of their “qualified immunity” and establish clear laws which make it completely legal to use force, even deadly force when necessary, to resist unlawful arrests, searches and seizures of property. Every SWAT officer who does one of these should have to do so with the knowledge that…
1. If the warrant is invalid due to any malfeasance or negligence on his part, he’ll be charged with felony home invasion.
2. If the warrant is invalid or he gets the wrong address, it shall be the home owner’s right to resist him with deadly force.
3. If the warrant is invalid and/or he gets the wrong address, and he kills the target, he’ll be charged with felony murder (capital murder caused by killing someone during the commission of a felony, in this case, home invasion).
Ironically, that’s about where the system used to be in this country for most of its existence.
Hey Mike T, do you mean that all that free money that parasites and their unprincipled lawyers go after and often collect from taxpayers isn’t really free at all?
How can that be?
Is it kind of like retirement at age 30 for all those heretofore undiognosed disabilities that sociologists and lawyers conjure up so that the lazy and shiftless can spend their lives doing their thing instead of going to work and paying their own way in the world?
Do you think it will ever stop?
Mike T,
“@ What is actually needed is to strip the police of their “qualified immunity” and establish clear laws which make it completely legal to use force, even deadly force when necessary, to resist unlawful arrests, searches and seizures of property.”
Mike, authorizing the public to use deadly force the way you prescribe is not the answer. Do you realize what you’re advocating and the death and mayhem that would result?
I was in law enforcement for 25 years, and I got the “You’re violating my rights” line thrown in my face countless times, usually by tv-trained attorneys and intoxicated juveniles. I had two cases dismissed as a result of illegal searches. TWO in 25 years. Under your scenario, the suspects would have had the right to kill me. In fact, every single time an ignorant and untrained citizen THOUGHT I was violating their rights they could have killed me with impunity under your plan.
As it turned out, the cases were properly and legally adjudicated in a court of law, which is the proper place to resolve these differences.
Semper fi, and rest in peace brother.
How do you figure they could have “killed you with impunity” under my plan? I made it clear that I was referring to objectively illegal actions.
I think you’re overreacting. This is about the rule of law and enforcing reasonable behavior in the courts, not putting the officer’s life on a pedestal. If you raid an innocent man’s house, it should be legally axiomatic that he can’t be found guilty of criminal anything in resisting you unless he continues to use force after you try to calm the situation down and leave. If you arrest someone for bad-mouthing you or start knocking the crap out of someone, they ought to have a legal right to resist you.
Those things used to be considered part of the “rule of law.” When my parents were in law enforcement, if a cop effected an illegal arrest, he placed his life in his own hands. My father still cusses out the TV and Internet when he sees cops getting away with behavior like that. On more than one occasion, he’s lectured me on how the behavior of cops declined when the law began to protect them from the citizenry when they abuse their authority in an aggressive way.
David B,
“Mike, authorizing the public to use deadly force the way you prescribe is not the answer. Do you realize what you’re advocating and the death and mayhem that would result?”
“When the government fears the people, there is liberty…” — T. Jefferson
“…Give me liberty or give me death” –P. Henry.
All Mike is advocating is our right to self-defense and preservation. You don’t believe we have the right to protect ourselves against you, therefore, you don’t believe we have any rights at all.
“…tv-trained attorneys and intoxicated juveniles…”
You believe we are so ignorant that we can’t identify ad-hominem argumentation. This sort of garbage works on your ‘brothers-in-arms’ and much of the public, but it doesn’t work on some. Under common-law travel is a right, and at the very least these ‘intoxicated juveniles and tv-trained attorneys’ know SOMETHING is wrong. They get at least a passing grade for effort. You guys don’t believe anything is wrong, so, you fail and will continue to fail as you make us more and more your enemies!
“…I had two cases dismissed as a result of illegal searches. TWO in 25 years. Under your scenario, the suspects would have had the right to kill me. In fact, every single time an ignorant and untrained citizen THOUGHT I was violating their rights they could have killed me with impunity under your plan.”
Yes, that’s right. We have the right to protect our property and the lives of our loved ones from ignorant and arrogant policemen, even those policemen who make mistakes. Your mistakes may cost me my life, which in your mind and in the minds of your ‘brothers-in-arms’ is completely acceptable, but woe be to us if we take your life. If we took your life in the way you’ve taken ours you’d descend on us like Hitler’s blitzkrieg. Again, in your paradigm we have no rights at all.
You’ve robbed us of our collective right to self-defense (the militia) so that we can’t thwart one of you illegal onslaughts. You’ve robbed us of our right to own weapons and armament equivalent to yours. You’ve robbed us of our money so that you can buy weapons and train to bring us into submission to you.
“As it turned out, the cases were properly and legally adjudicated in a court of law, which is the proper place to resolve these differences.”
Most of the courts are kangaroo courts where citizens have no rights at all. Modern courts are are not established to find truth or protect rights.
“Semper fi, and rest in peace brother.”
I’m sure these words will comfort his widow. NOT! Your brothers murdered this woman’s husband.
The bottom line is that pigs (cops) need to be be re-educated. They’ve fawned to the federal government so long they have no clue which way is up. You’ve been federalized and militarized and conditioned to believe we are your enemies.
Eric
Reason 3,456 to despise “law enforcement” and “the war on drugs”.
Steroid junkies killing other suspected junkies/dealers.
Any judge that authorizes a ‘no knock’ should be held criminally and financially responsible for any and all unintended consequences along with the police departments. Too many of these are just rubber stamped with no regard for the citizen.
“Any judge that authorizes a ‘no knock’ should be held criminally and financially responsible for any and all unintended consequences along with the police departments. Too many of these are just rubber stamped with no regard for the citizen.”
This.
Patrick, a good friend of mine in a police officer in a small, Arkansas town. He told me they are instructed to write speeding tickets all shift long for any MPH over the limit. Obviously for e revenue purposes. He also said that invariably they stop illegal aliens for incorrect licensing etc. In their case, they are to trelease them because the town does not want to incur the expenses of holding them to turn them over to ICE.
to sum it up, they are looking for Americans who aren’t breaking the law because they have the ability to pay tickets and do not ned to be held. People that are criminals are released because that will cost them money.
How did he know the official (but unwritten) policy of the Washington State Patrol? He can come here and make six figures for following that exact set of rules.
This is the same policy being implemented in Los Angeles CA and Seattle WA…leave the illegals alone because they can’t pay (and help elect the right polticians) and lean on legal citizens who can pay, whoever they might vote for.
Racist and discriminatory on the basis of financial condition in its effect, liberals love the idea because the “right” people are getting hurt, or maybe it is the right people are getting the free passes.
Discrimination is discrimination, and discrimination never fails to corrupt.
Well it appears that this sort of thing is becoming the norm. What?
1:Las Vegas last year in the Costco. West point graduate shot. Now this.
2:Indiana: Police no longer need an additional warrant to break down your door when serving the primary warrant.
Due to unions these police “officers” will not be dismissed and will live happily ever after with their pensions.
Get ready for far worse if “the one” gets a second term.
I feel like the press should release every officer on that raids Picture, Name, and Address. The judge also. If the law won’t handle these things, maybe someone will heckle the crap out of them. Make their lives miserable. Maybe 4chan can go after someone who really deserves it. There are plenty of legal ways to make people miserable.
The reality is if this stuff keeps happening people will go after cops and their families. One pissed off relative can do a lot of damage. And honestly, I wouldn’t feel sorry for them. They murdered somebody.
It’s the war on drugs. Does it feel like we’re winning?
I don’t use drugs. I don’t like the idea of drugs. When you do something the same way, and it’s not working, and you redouble your efforts, and something like this happens, the best you can say is that you are a very slow learner.
How about legalization and treatment? You won’t save them all.
We can do better than this.
Mark D, good thoughts. The war on drugs in now far more dangerous than the stuff prohibited. Every one needs to research how far out of hand the drug war AKA, war on personal liberty, has gotten.
Go to the Law Enforcement Against Prohibition site. Find a partial list of other innocents killed by bungling cop agencies on all levels of law enforcement @ The Drug War Rant.
Also I recommend checking out marijuana prohibition. Most people don’t know the lies, exaggeration, duplicity & selfish motives behind hemp & cannabis prohibition. A teaser: What was WR Hurst after in his Reefer Madness campaigns, the smoked version of cannabis or a close cousin, industrial hemp? The answer will surprise. The true motive for cannabis prohibition should shock you! If you do the research you’ll find out that The US public was HAD by HURST!!
All drugs should be re-legalized. The truly dangerous ones should be run through state controlled dispensaries & connected to Consequence Of Use education. Cannabis should be totally RE-legalized. Treat it like beer & wine, both of which can be made at home in small amounts. Don’t forget, cannabis is much safer than alcohol.
Regarding the MURDER by DUMPnik & Co, the should be sued to the max!!! Also if the AZ AG has any stones, which I doubt he does, he should file charges against Dupnik & every officer who fired their weapon. THESE GOONS NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
YO!!! AZ AG, TOM HORN! Do you have the stones OR are ya gonna sweep this under the rug???
SamFox
“B-b-b-but how will I know right from wrong without a big government agency to tell me? I mean, I didn’t know my lawn mower was killing polar bears until the EPA told me so!
“If pot were legalized I might run right out and hook myself on it! Big Nanny DEA, save meeeeeee!!!”
/sarc
NJ police..over unionized..over paid…underworked (in the suburbs anyway). Police have more fealty to their damn PBAs and FOPs than to the towns and people that pay their way. When i suggested to a PBA leader that suburban cops cede some of their renumeration package so that urban cops who do a dangerous job could be better paid I was told to mind my business…on a radio talk show.
As Roger Hedgecock (former Mayor of San Diego) has said…protect and serve has become protect and serve up..
paarl of Rhodesia
There was a time when two or three officers wearing suits & ties would knock on a door, and serve a warrant or make an arrest. The cops & the military should be separate entities with different priorities. The militarization of domestic law-enforcement began under Ronal Reagan, and has expanded steadily ever since.
Rick: It would be far more accurate to suggest that the militarization of domestic law-enforcement began under Richard Nixon, with his “law and order” campaign themes and his federal grants to local law enforcement. The concept was well established before RR arrived.
You’re both wrong. The militarization of police departments started under LBJ…about the time I became a police officer in Texas. I served in that capacity for several years while I went to school to finish up my degrees and eventually left to take a better-paying job with far less stress…teaching law enforcement. One thing I emphasized as a teacher was that officers MUST remain on guard against developing a “we vs. them” attitude towards the people they are supposed to serve. Police tend to form social relationships with other law enforcement folks, hang out in law enforcement “clubs” of one sort or another, and the temptation is great to think of the public as “the enemy”–as much because their only contacts with the general public are in some negatively-tinged circumstance.
WE THE PEOPLE deserve a small part of the blame too.
When I get pulled over by a patrolman I pop open the glove box (so he can see in before my hand goes in), my dome light goes on (if it’s dark), and I speak politely. I have gotten three tickets in my life, two were partly or completely undeserved, and guess what? I saved my arguing for the judge where it belongs.
A police officer put it very well in a gun magazine I once read. “you wouldn’t like it if I walked into your office and started distracting you with jokes and complaints. When I pull you over you are in my office, so please act like an adult.”
BTW, I agree with a lot of the sentiment here. No-knock warrants need to be abolished, even if it means drug dealers get an advantage.
That’s a good point, that policemen usually interact with civilians under less than ideal circumstances. There was a time when they were properly evaluated and I know of more than a few applicants who couldn’t pass the psychological profile. I think part of the problem now is that standards have been lowered to accommodate certain groups so’s we can get that there diverse group thingie going.
I never could understand someone really wanting a career where they mostly interacted with people at their worst. It does seem to attract some very anal retentive, zero logic control freaks.
It seems that now we expect more maturity and restraint from 20 year old combat troops in Afghanistan than from law enforcement here at home.
I’m betting swat teams around the US have killed more innocent people than they have criminals.
Seriously……71 shots? Pima county might have a leg to stand on if only 1 or 2 shots but 71? Why are they not in jail? Why is the media not all over this? Why are you people not outraged by this? Are the police so frightened that they have to walk around guns at the ready and shoot at noises? Boycott Pima County! Don’t go there, don’t talk to anyone there, austrisize them until the people there do something about this! What happened to Arizona?
Our left/liberal, public sector union SEIU-type police forces (screw dem civilians, they deserve what they get– uh, “my training kicked in,” hey, where’s my doughnut and benefits, dammit!) in action.
La Raza has been going after Sheriff Joe Arpaio for years. Can you imagine if his team did something like this even if the veteran was killed with only a few shots. I wonder if they will start protesting Dupe-nik and demanding his resignation for using excessive force. I doubt it because they know he is a liberal loon and will protect illegal aliens. It’s not about right and wrong with La Raza, but what will score political points.
Expect nothing from the Obama DOJ. After all, Dupnik is a loyal Democrat, unlike John Edwards whos’ only use to the party is as a sacrificial lamb. Any restrictions on out of control SWATs and Police in general where wrong doers go to pension and unlimited liability of their unions and the force in question’s retirement system. The again, I do dream.
Oh, I don’t know about that. Looks like Edwards may be going down for diverting campaign funds to his mistress.
One irony is that our own gov’t has enabled home invasions by unbridled immigration in that area that could easily be confused for a “no-knock” What’s a man to do? Die.
I have felt for many years that our law enforcement is over-trained and over-militarized; the set up a perimeter mentality has no place in the majority of law enforcement. If our gov’t would stop allowing brutal Third World cultures to enter the U.S. we wouldn’t have this problem and talking about all the “good” people misses the point since it that community that masks the activity of people who perpetrate crimes almost unknown in the U.S. 40 years ago.
Our own gov’t and PC has transformed entire areas of America into the wild west and even once quiet California valleys have illegal aliens wandering about like life after a nuclear war as Dr. Hanson’s essays suggest.
It immigration stupid – when will our congress put aside the racism issue and admit that South America looks like it does and has always looked like it does because of the people in it – it’s not rocket science but simple reality and crossing a border doesn’t make people different. Every American has known about Latin America since forever by vacationing there and if you bring those people here then you bring South America here.
Generally speaking only dictatorships kept crime down in Latin America and now with that area having democracies with vacation prisons controlled by thugs there is no law. In Guatemala for example a criminal was often shot in the head and now they get a slap on the wrist relatively speaking and crime in Guatemala since the early 90s has spiked horribly as it has in Mexico, El Salvador, Brazil, Hondura, etc. I know, I was in those places before and after.
It’s simple – keep ‘em out. Anyone who can’t see this story is a crime directly related to the loss of relative peace once normal in America will not help. Write your congressmen. End immigration – kick the ones here out or argue me that the Third World is full of rocket scientists dedicated to peace. You’ll enjoy the HuffPo propaganda articles that say all the young science awards are being dominated by immigrants as if immigrants are suddenly innovators by sheer numbers, sheer numbers also available in guess what – the countries they come from with no sign of innovation. The idea that people can only show such characteristics by crossing a border or ocean into an educational infrastructure they can’t make for themselves is ludicrous.
People today laugh at people who are nostalgic for the days of “Leave It To Beaver” as if it is code for racism. It is code for peace and order and the only people flocking to Brazil or Egypt come from even worse cultures then those and who cannot reach the U.S. – yet.
James….what makes you feel so entitled to be here? why don’t you go back to where ever you originally came from?
Bob, maybe it’s called free speech. By the way, James is quite correct.
GOOD POST James!!!
SamFox
It’s not a question of entitlement. It’s a question of building something good and decent with law and order as opposed to the mess that comprises the Third World and who is capable of doing it and who is not.
Only a moron can’t see the difference between a place like La Paz, Bolivia where people routinely crap on open rubble piles on construction sites in the middle of downtown in the middle of the day in the country’s largest city. I have seen it there many times.
India is almost unbelievably filthy. It is the only country I have ever been to where some tourists were visibly shaken and said coming was a mistake and that they wouldn’t be back. It’s place where men rub snot on walls as they walk by – I’ve seen it.
In almost every movie theatre I have been in from Peru to Indonesia the first thing that greets you is the pungent smell of old urine.
I was in Rio de Janeiro when a mountain of garbage of a shanty town collapsed and killed people – can you believe that – a small hill of it.
There are 8 zillion more stories like that. A place belongs to those who can make it, not destroy it. Unfortunately in our case, a place belongs to those who can outbreed Americans and care nothing for law or order.
I noticed you didn’t disagree with me. That is because it is true. America is being transformed into a rubbish heap by morons and there’s no other way to describe it.
Good points, James.
What you’re talking about is civil society – the infrastructure, culture, and institutions that make life livable. It’s a rare and delicate thing, and it can be unbalanced in any direction.
Too much corruption in the police force? You get things like this event with sherriff Dupnik’s murderous goons. Too little respect and support for the justice system? You get South L.A. and Tijuana.
Your culture is too homogenous and rigid? You end up infringing the rights of minorities (see Saudi Arabia). Too multicultural? You get violent clashes between conflicting worldviews (Serbia, London, Paris).
This murder by cop happened MARCH 5. Today is March 25. This has been widely non-reported. Dupnik remains sheriff of Pima County. What PJM does not mention is that Guerena’s home was one of several in his area simultaneously rousted by SWAT. No arrests, none.
This is Ruby Ridge, chapter two.
Tucson is a statist rathole, full of bleeding hearts with wringing hands. But maybe next time-there will be a next time-Dupnik will swat a U of A professor’s home.
The author of this article fails to tell us that there were weapons and body armor recovered in the home along with a photo poster of a major Mexican Drug Lord, and that there were drugs found in one of the other homes that were searched.
Additional, there are reports that the raid was made up of “Multiple Agencies”, meaning more than just the Pima County Sheriff.
In cases of a search warrant being utilized, a prosecutor is involved and the facts are brought to a Judge where they are reviewed, questions asked and then approved. Upon completion, a “return” is made to the Judge. Bottom line here, there is oversight bu both a Judge and a DA.
Finally, the Swat guys are armed with shoulder fired automatic weapons, 30 rounds in a clip is normal and when faced with a subject holding a AR 15, also carrying 30 rounds, expect the Swat team to do as trained.
JMHO, but politics needs to be put aside here because eventually the entire story and all the facts will come out.
I agree Guerena’s “mistake” was to pick up his own weapon. But he was in his house, and it is entirely credible he feared a home assault. What would you have us do under similar circumstance? I keep a nocturnal weapon handy, and, like Guerena, would have my family scurry into a safer room while I awaited developments in their (and my) defense. That an innocent (until proven guilty) man should hold a weapon in defense of his abode justifies his death at the hands of the State?
Guerena’s mistake was not firing his weapon. If he had shot a few back out the door, the rest of this Keystone cop operation probably would have retreated and negotiated. Some of the imbeciles on this team would be dead or wounded (and no longer a danger to the community) and perhaps Guerena would be alive.
Clearly you’ve never witnessed the ‘cleaner’ mentality of police action…when the second team comes in to evaluate, compell affidavits, and build the PR story. I have and will rarely if ever trust the police again…besides whenever I needed them they were either incompetent or disinterested.
Likewise, you failed to mention…
1. He owned a perfectly legal weapon (AR15) which a lot of gun owners own.
2. Body armor is not only legal, but a number of combat veterans have it.
3. Jesus Malverde is not only more of a Robin Hood-like figure in Mexico than one of the current crop of cartel leaders, but according to legend, he was killed over 102 years ago so he has no relation at all with the current problems facing Mexico.
4. That it is completely irrelevant to his case that drugs were found in his neighbor’s house. I guess if someone finds kiddie porn in your neighbor’s house, the police can justify taking your kids away with a SWAT team…
Patrick,
Listen to yourself:
“…and that there were drugs found in one of the other homes that were searched”
In one of the OTHER homes..that makes it fine to shoot him?
Cuz all them gooks is VC anyhow, right?
Light’em up?
Except for the tacky poster, I have all that gear like most Vets. So what? Killed for a poster?
You think the “truth” will come out? Just like the truth about Eric Scott’s murder? The one that will stand unless the missing video tapes are ever found.
We are long past the time when legislatures must raise the bar higher in the law when such force can be legally justified. Since the law enforcement and prosecutorial functions of the executive branch have stretched and stretched their ability to use SWAT in raids to such an extent that it has become almost routine, and since the judiciary has gone along with this mission creep, the legislature must revisit this issue before this militarized police state becomes entrenched.
You might say that endless expansion of government has debased the currency and now that expansion debases the rights of its citizens and the value of their lives. We cannot put the lives of government agents above the lives of citizens. It does nobody any good to get confused about who is boss.
Wow, where to begin?
First, 60 rounds into one person, absent some very extreme circumstances (that one could reasonably conclude would have already been released by now) is excessive.
Second, to the fellow railing the police and judges concerning no-knock warrants, it sounds like, if I read the story right, they are claiming they knocked & announced and waited prior to entry. If this didn’t happen, it would seem it is being lied about. For the record, judges do not issue “no-knock” warrants very often and only under strict guidelines.
Third, if the guy had a firearm pointed at police, whether uniformed or SWAT guys, he’s likely to get shot; no different than a ordinary citizen would if presented with the same. Seriously Mr. Nicholas you wouldn’t survive a gun battle by waiting until you are shot at, unless of course your opponent is as incompetent in his skills as you are in your common sense.
Fourth, to the simply minded souls who feel we have fought, and lost, a war on drugs, then you truly do not understand the battle. To use the war analogy, if our soldiers fight and capture the enemy, then some tribunal releases them, then it would be hard to fathom a scenario in which winning is possible. In spite of law enforcement efforts, liberal judges ignoring the law have been undermining at every step for as long as the “war” has been going on. You may also fail to realize that the same people involved in drugs, users and dealers are responsible for the vast amount of all other crimes as well-and leagalizing it will not resolve that fact (especially when your same left wing politicians want to tax the snot out of it to supply money for their political payoffs).
Most of the police are well trained and perform literally thousands of these search warrants occur every year without this sort of incident occurring. Moreover, the majority of them do the job of maintaining order and enforcing the laws that you through your elected officials enact.
I love the USMC and am saddened by a veteran falling during such an ordeal, but will also withhold judgement until all of the facts are known. If he was involved in drug dealing, then I’ll have difficulty sympathizing a great deal.
Last, if you truly desire to disarm our police of body armor and shoulder-fired weapons when faced with some of the scoundrels (often armed with shoulder-fired weapons) that plague many communities, especially the inner cities, then I say you truly have a perverse view.
Even a drug dealer deserves his day in court. Why did it take a swat team to serve a warrant to a man with no criminal record? We’re supposed to condemn a two tour marine for having a flac jacket and a rifle? No medical attention? Why do we keep seeing cases where the police withhold medical attention until the perp is dead? Why are the police always allowed to police themselves?
As far as the cops saying they knocked and waited, they said he fired on them also. They also say they spent over an hour securing the area. There’s the problem….they say and say and say and the truth rarely passes their lips. A rap on the door followed by immediate forced entry qualifies as home invasion to me. Most people do not set by the door waiting to open it within 10 or 15 seconds.
These incidents are all attributable to two facts. The authorities have power to confiscate and they have little fear of being punished. They protect each other like
a pack of wolves and the prosecuters will rarely stand up to them.
The war on drugs would not be waged with one tenth the intensity it now is if the authorities weren’t allowed to confiscate damned near anything they ‘suspect’ could have been used for illegal purposes. The more they confiscate the more they recieve from the feds so they can hire more control freaks to confiscate more.
And I personally don’t care if he had 10 pounds of pot or cocaine or dog poo in his house, these types of entries by authorities should be reserved for hostage/kidnap or other ‘person in extreme danger’ situations.
I’m 63 years old and I’ve seen policemen in general evolve from polite and respectful but capable of violence when necessary to rude and antagonistic parsites with a ‘us verus you’ mindset always preferring violence to reason.
You might be surprised how many older folks like myself (veterans for the most part, with no criminal background) shudder with contempt at the sight of a policeman.
Joe,
Well said. I grew up respecting the police as they were in the 50′s and 60′s. I have reached the ‘wouldn’t piss on ‘em if they were on fire’ level of respect for them at this time in my life. My favorite quote about the police; “When seconds count the police are just minutes away”. Others have said, and for the most part are correct, that most police believe they live in their own society separate from us ‘citizens’. I’m betting that Demjanjuk felt the same way. Police seem to act more like prison guards than servants of the people. If this goes on long enough they may experience their own ‘prison riot’. That, they will not like.
Law enforcement peronnel do, indeed, live in a world separate from the rest of “us”. Here are some of the reasons why:
Most of “us” hate cops.
Most of “us” are scofflaws, stealing, doping, cheating, driving wrongly anytime we think we can get away with it.
Almost all of “us” are cowards, afraid to confront the evil or to protect the innocent.
Most of “us” are lazy and self-indulgent.
Almost all of “us” are selfish and uncaring.
A good Cop can’t be “any of the above”. And we hate him because he isn’t the depraved critters we are. Just as we can see that he is not at all like us, so he can affirm the same.But, because it is the right thing to do, he pins on the tin target and lays his all on the line daily so that we don’t have to live in a jungle of Zeta-like predators.
Unfortunately, there are some cops who are not Good Cops.Cowardly, malicious, lazy, ignorant, stupid, venal, they are better qualified to be contemporary congressmen.Dupnik is such. If he is croatian his name says so.
Finally, before making any final judgments on a case we should have all the facts. But there are many things we do not know. The US Supreme Court recently held, 8-1, that a citizen may not defend against unidentified armed intruders if they happen to be police acting illegally. That decision qualifies as judicial feces. If awakened by a group of men bursting into your home , you have a duty; not just a right, to shoot them. Otherwise, while you are demanding it, they will be killing you.
“Most of “us” are scofflaws, stealing, doping, cheating, driving wrongly anytime we think we can get away with it.”
Oh, come on, Tiger! Where do you live and who do you hang out with? Most of my co-workers, parish members, and neighbors are good people and don’t fit your description. It’s not that hard to be a “good” cop, and it shouldn’t be that hard for them to identify with the majority of us law-abiding citizens.
Unfortunately, many cops spend their day dealing with the worst segment of society and can’t re-calibrate their mode of behavior to appropriately deal with the polite and the law-abiding. See the incident in Philadelphia ( http://bit.ly/l2Qm0d ) where the patrolman cursed at, humiliated, and pointed a gun at “one of us”. A law-abiding, licensed gun owner.
I’m with you, Joe. I grew up in a nice, mostly blue collar, suburban town of around 50,000 people. When I was a kid, there was always a cop stationed at the main intersection in the center of town, directing traffic, chatting with people, assisting pedestrians, etc. Always in a neatly pressed uniform; navy trousers, light blue shirt, standard issue police hat. The kind of guy that makes you feel safe and that you feel comfortable approaching and asking for help/advice. Someone you look up to. Kind of an Andy Griffith vibe, but with different uniform colors.
I recently returned to that town. Demographically, not much has changed; it’s still a nice, mostly blue collar suburban town of around 50,000 people. There is still a cop at that intersection. I did a double take at the “modern” cop’s uniform: black tactical pants (cargo style) tucked into black, combat boots, a black shirt with what looked like body armor under it, and a black field cap (baseball style). What the hell?? Everything about this cop said “stay away!” and “danger!” Why are these guys on routine duty — PR jobs as much as anything else — dressed like paramilitary goons instead of cops??
Something is seriously wrong here.
EXCELLENT OBSERVATION
Actually, judges issue them quite frequently in many jurisdictions. It’s also very common for witnesses and targets to claim that the police failed to make their presence known properly. Given all of the money they save from having the Pentagon be their sugar daddy, the least they could do is buy their own megaphones to announce their presence.
Let me ask you this. If someone comes up to your door, starts pounding the door in and yells “police” once or twice while you’re on the other side of the house, how likely do you think it is that you’ll hear them say “police?” Not very likely indeed. In fact, one of the things that police are notorious for doing is breaking in at 2AM, while the people are asleep and then claiming that they should have understood “police, police!” while they’re in a half-awake stupor. (Do you know why the police often do no-knocks early in the morning? Because they claim that it catches the target while they’re asleep and they’re less likely to be at sufficient level of alertness to be effective at resisting)
Listen, I am reserving final judgement on this, but c’mon: They pulled into the driveway, activated an audible siren and non-chalantly approached the door. This occurred during broad daylight. For those of you there who really wanna call this a “no-knock” I would simply submit to you that you are grossly uninformed as to what exactly that is.
It is common practice to perform a risk assessment prior to activating a SWAT team. This is an item that will be subpeona’d during the civil suit that is sure to follow, not to mention the civil rights case that will almost surely be opened by the DOJ.
The standards that will be looked for (in terms of non-criminal impropriety) will be (1) fail to train (2) deliberate indifference (to a problem of almost any sort) (3) fail to supervise.
It has been my experience that the DOJ is typically not light-handed to the local and state law enforcement. They seek out oftentimes fellows to do those investigations that are not overly fond of police as a culture (not altogether different from some of you as I read some posts).
Everything, including the basis for the search warrant itself will be considered.
The standard in civil suits is a preponderance of evidence. If there is a case, and there may well be, then I’m sure the city’s/and county involved will be writing a huge check. Does this bring back a fallen Marine? No. But do not think for a minute that this will be swept under the rug with no consequence either.
For the record, I dislike this Dupnik character as much as anyone else in the conservative realm for his politization of the Giffords shooting.
To the hypothetical of the 0200 hours, kick-the-door-in, and flood the dwelling with guns in every room real “no knock” warrant, in my federal court district they are issued very infrequently, for the obvious reason that a reasonable person might respond in such fashion.
To a deaper issue pertaining to the police culture, it has been my experience that most veteran officers have found themselves in one or more situations where deadly force could have been justified, but did not elect to do so. This is because the vast majority of officers not only make good decisions usually, but do find ways to solve the problem without deadly force, oftentimes at greater personal risk to themselves. I find this to be true for those in high crime areas but also in affluent areas as well. No one hears about the situations that are resolved without discharging a firearm.
There are still officers who do their job with honor and distinction, who respect your rights, and do so inspite of the lack of accolades, as it used to be said, “if you desire respect and appreciation, become a fireman or join the peace corp, but don’t become a cop.”
It doesn’t matter how terrible the crime, there’s always someone like ausonius around to blame the victim, and excuse the perpetrators.
I never once stated this Marine was to be blamed, only that more information is needed to pass judgement.
I never stated that this SWAT team acted properly, only that more information is needed to pass judgement.
I do hope, for your sake, should someone accuse you of something, that you will receive an objective and complete review prior to the erecting of the gallows.
It took over an hour to clear the house as safe? It took 40 minutes for the SEALS to fly into BLS compound, search the place, shoot a less than ten, search the place for intel and leave. And it takes these idiots over an hour to search one small house? Major WTF? moment.
Really, 71 rounds fired? WTH? How did they even do that? Assuming 20-round clips on full auto, that would be four guys unloading simultaneously on this young Marine. They obviously were jonesing for some blood. And how the hell did 4+ stooges avoid shooting each other in a small hallway while shooting at one man? This whole thing stinks to high heaven.
They shot through the outside walls in the general direction of him, his wife and his kid. Clearly carefully aimed fire, fully in keeping with good law enforcement practice. They then “found themselves compelled” to break down all the doors in the neighborhood and search all the houses (without any warrants) after Dupnik’s boys shot up the neighboring houses due to their uncontrolled shooting.
Let us not forget the other culprits. A fawning media who eagerly await their government master’s press releases to be able to “report” the facts.
The black robed pirate who signed the no knock warrant for ALL of these families. The blood thirsty thugs did have a warrant didn’t they?
Well, I guess it really isn’t needed — these days the 4th Amendment is trumped by the good intentions of the officers after all sent to do the King’s bidding. And Guereña or in this case, his wife, is free to put in a complaint with the presiding court. The court is satisfied. All is well and noble in Amerika.
Now would be a good time to watch the movie Brazil again. Sadly, Terry Gilliam’s vision has been manifested in reality by the police.
The perverse cop shows glorifying this violence brainwash a gullible public into accepting this behavior as normal. God help us all.
The unfortunate part is that incidents like this, and L.E. leaders like
Dupnik besmerch the truelly brave and mostly competent officers who make
up the majority of law enforcement.
Its a dangerous job. And largly thankless (remember your last ticket?).
UNTIL YOU NEED THEM.
Until we NEED them…
As if!
“when seconds count, the police are only minutes away”
I’m responsible for my own safety, and my families.
If we get jacked in the middle of the night by some knife wielding Manson followers or gun toting gangbangers, we’ll have to fight them off ourselves or be killed. Period.
911 is a conversation I WONT have time for.
And when I DO finish off the bad guys, the ONLY thing any cops can do is second guess my decisions, and run my life through the mill.
They are useless to me.
First of all, it does NOT in any way shape or form take an hour and 14 minutes to clear a home. A half decent at best tactical team should be able to clear a 4 bedroom house in less than 2 minutes. tops. So yes, this does stink to high Heaven. And 71 shots fired for chrissake. Based on just what is out there right now, sounds like that team was out to kill. At any rate, Pima County’s story is adding 2+2 and not getting 4. Finally this story is getting some traction. Head over to http://www.thisainthell.us for all the details and great commentary.
Dupnick has made a fool of himself before, and will continue to do so as long as he lives. Here’s hoping the residents of Pima County will fire him in the next election. On another note, however: I personally have never known a police officer who was not a bully or thug at his core, and who did not over-react when things got hot. I’m sure there are exceptions to my experience, but I’ve not seen them.
All honor to Jose Guerena and his family.
I’m extremely heartbroken for this family. This brave young man fought for America. He served two tours of duty in Iraq, and is ruthlessly shot down whilst his wife and child hide in terror. An ambulance arrived in a few minutes, but medical personnel were not allowed inside to see Mr Guerena for an hour and 14 minutes. This is UNFORGIVABLE.
Apparently, the SWAT team wanted to make sure he would die a long, slow death in terrible agony and NEVER be able to protest his INNOCENCE. Guerena, an American hero, was surrounded by cruel, cold-blooded killers as he lay in agony with no one to help or comfort him. Rest in peace, dear Mr. Guerena. We will not forget your suffering.
What has happened to our country? This is very frightening. How many more innocents and heroes will be be shot to death? Is the America we knew and loved gone forever?
Nonsense. There are tens of thousands of police officers who have no interest in “bullying” anyone. A police officer, contacting a civilian, whether speaking to that civilian as a perp or witness or victim, MUST make certain that everyone understands that HE (or she) is in control of the situation. If some officers do this arrogantly, then that’s a problem with their training…not necessarily an indication that they’re bullies.
You’re a cop, right? Most people who are into fantasies such as yours are, or are married to one. The reality is that cops are thugs who think they can get away with anything, including murder, with impunity. Thank God the public is finally waking up. I can’t wait to hear people like you screaming in outrage when justice is finally done!
Apparently the obvious irony in this poorly-thought comment escapes you. Likewise, I’m so encouraged that tens of thousands of cops are, on your word, perhaps professionals.
Out of millions.
In point of fact, I don’t think there are millions. In ’94 there were only about 600,000 nationwide. I doubt seriously that number has nearly quadrupled since.
Actually SWAT teams got started after Charles Whitman took the tower on the campus of UT Austin, murdered 16 people, and wounded 32 others in August 1966.
Unfortunately, the situations the cops run into more and more in this country require heavily-armed units. If you doubt this watch the videos from the North Hollywood bank robbery of February 1997 some time. A couple guys with AK-47′s , 9mm’s, and body armor turned part of LA into a shooting gallery and this even was only unusual in the effective body armor of the robbers that allowed them to be hit so many times and still keep shooting.
The biggest issue I have with this story is that it is obvious that the cops wanted this guy dead the second they realized they screwed up – which explains why they denied him medical care. It may also be that this guy already had a past with the cops as well – a liberal loon like the Pima county scumbag Sheriff Dumdik might have had words with the Marine before and the home crash-entry episode may have been intended as a warning about how Dumdik viewed anyone disrespecting him. That Dumdik’s SWAT team was a bunch of clowns who accidentally murdered a guy after one of them tripped discharging a weapon in their universal incompetence and then let him die to cover it up should surprise no one.
Sure, occasionally (very rarely) there is a need for SWAT. I used to do entry training with a team.
But, since the city / county / state spent all this money on them, let’s just find other ways to use them all the time. For instance, serving no-knock warrants that provoke gunfights with homeowners.
Back when police acted like police, they would follow a suspect and arrest him or her on the street with a minimum of fuss and risk. With the suspect in custody, they could then search his house – dressed like police officers instead of Rangers.
Now? Why wait? Lets storm his house like it’s Falluja! Hell, let’s get sloppy open-ended warrants and randomly terrorize a neighborhood!
Maybe this will stop someday when they arrive at the wrong address and a Vet puts 3 or 4 of them down hard before he even realizes they are supposedely cops. After this case, I would certainly be able to claim it was self-protection.
Superb point, Old Soldier.
Why didn’t they arrest him at work? (he had apparently just finished a night shift at a copper mine) Then execute a peaceful, routine search warrant on his home with only wife and child home? There was no need for this SWAT tactic at all.
The Sheriff and the commander of the SWAT team should be charged with premeditated murder. Every member of the SWAT Team should be fired and barred from ever owning a firearm.
Remember – Dupnik and his minions are the same idiots that are trying to create a new state, Baja Arizona, by Pima County seceding from the rest of Arizona……….Just another example of leadership from the liberal left……..
Thank God he was buried with full military honors. May God bless and care for his loved one. I’m still wondering though about the SF Captain that was gunned down in front of Lowes while standing next to his wife in Nevada a few months ago. That was a cover up from hell also. Has anybody heard anything about that case since?
Dear SFC Ret. Dave:
I co-blog with Bob at Confederate Yankee. I’ve been covering the Erik Scott case since last August. He’s the former Army Armor officer killed by the Las Vegas Metro Police about which you inquired. We have an archive dedicated to just that case. You’ll find it in the right hand margin of the site home page. Here’s a link to the most recent post: http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/#316521.
You’ll find the entire case in great detail in the archive. Thanks!
An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure!
A couple hours of competent intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance could have saved a life…
Using thermal imaging, it’s easy to count the number of people in a modern stucco and wood frame home. It’s usually possible to discern children from adults. A search of records or a bit of surveillance would have revealed this particular suspect held a full time job at a copper mine.
If you want to search his home and strongly suspect the only other residents are his young wife and two small children you have a detective and his partner and a uniformed unit wait out of sight until it’s time for the man to go to work. You then approach him as he leaves his residence and present him with the warrant and detain him. You then send your uniformed officer around to the back to cover any possible runners and ring the front doorbell, identify yourselves and present the warrant to the women of the house. You then conduct you search. No one hurt, one suspect late for work, or in jail if the warrant pans out, and no young mother or children who will have nightmares for the rest of their lives from seeing their father / husband gunned down like a dog, sixty times over!
What happened to common sense in this country? What was the entry team leader thinking? Why isn’t the Pima County Grand Jury all over this like white on rice?
Armageddon Rex
That sounds like a long boring night! It’s much more fun to just shoot up the neighborhood and manufacture justification later.
It’s to bad the Marine did not speed load his seven clips(one in the mag, six extra on the H-harness)while assualting though the jack booted ambush.
A lesson for me.
Platoon Sgt. USMC
Yep.
Murder plain and simple. The entire swat team should be jailed forever.
You have to admit being in a 3rd world country is a little different than being in a world super power. Jose Guerena was a better man and better trained than any of the sheriffs swat team. Two tours in Iraq and he is gunned down by a bunch of scared trigger happy mourns, in his own home. There can be no EXCUSE for this indecent and the sheriff and his swat team should be fired and put on trial. My CONDOLENCES to his wife and family. Jose will be missed a lot more than he`ll ever know
sheriff dipstick and every one of those lousy frakkin cops should fry for murder.
They deserve to die. Every one of them deserve to die.
Same as the waco and ruby ridge clowns
Union Bums with Guns..
But until we do, and in LARGE NUMBERS, nothing will change.
But who wants to be John Brown on a Tuesday morning
After reading theses comments, it would come as no suprise if police did view things as “us vs. them” as a number of those commenting have nothing but contempt for the police.
Just for the record, the cases of police making above national averages in terms of wages and benefits prior to the current recession were relatively few indeed. Most are not in it for the money.
Since nobody seems to like them unless they are in imminent danger, they surely are not motivated by the royal treatment.
I’m sure some of you would like to be treated as individuals and not as groups, so why exactly does that not also extend to the police. Some of you, it is quite clear, cannot stand them, any of them.
Treat them as other than a group when they totally act only as a group? When was the last time you heard of a whistleblowing cop, huh? They know this goes on, and they say nothing. This is a crime, and they are required to enforce the law, but they do not. There is always a whitewash after such an incident. It takes many layers and departments to make the whitewash happen. This makes them all thoroughly complicit.
Again, there is no such thing as a whistleblowing cop!
Most of my contempt goes to the politicians and upper echelons of the police departments – like this fool Sheriff Dupnik. They decided to use SWAT as the first option – not the last in their law enforcement. They also seem perfectly comfortable with this and Eric Scott’s assassination and ensuing cover-ups.
I also despise the holier-than-thou big-brother attitude that city cops in general seem to have assumed during my lifetime. Their “do-what-I-say or else” attitude even towards people not breaking the law is grating. I expect far better from people I am employing.
There are good cops out there, they are just getting harder to find.
True professionals tapped Osama twice, these wannabes take 60+ rounds?
Someone is headed to another battle of Athens.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_%281946%29
I have no words for this. I only have anger and hatred and the desire to see those responsible for this massacre put to death in the most brutal and painful fashion possible. I don’t just want them dead, I want them to suffer unimaginably, and to beg and pray for an end to their suffering long before the mercy of death is delivered. I want them to have a small taste of hell before they arrive there.
Cases like this one prove the wisdom of our founders when they crafted the 2nd Amendment. Resistance of tyranny is a lot more effective when that resistance is armed.
I have to sign up with Lee as to disposition of the murderers, here. Let them get some idea what the man they killed felt, too disciplined and honest to return fire on friendlies. This is not benign incompetence.
The Chinese say a fish rots from the head down.
I don’t think any of them know Dupnik, except by the empirical proof of the saying.
Don’t hold your breath waiting for Bruce Springsteen to write any sort of protest anthem in support of Guereña’s murder. Dupnik’s prior acts in service to the leftist cause have granted him immunity from any such expressions of opprobrium.
Pretest anthem about Guereña’s murder…
PIMF
I grew up in NYC and and now am in my 60′s. Cops use to walk a beat, now they drive a good speed talking on their cell phone and going thru red lights so they never have to stop.
Cops giving tickets use to be polite now they are nasty, abusive and looking for a fight. The courts in most local areas are just a way of gaining income for the town.
A few weeks ago I was on Rt 23 in NJ about 7:30 in the morning on a Saturday. I was going to work and traffic was backed up like crazy. I was waiting for it to be a bad accident but what it was was a bunch of Wayne cops blocking the 4 lanes of the road forcing everyone off onto a side service road. There they had 11 police cars, 3 unmarked, two supervisor SUV’s and a a couple of emergency trucks all lined up as they looked at everyone’s windshield. Took me 30 minutes to go 2 miles and the only reason it was that short is they all of a sudden directed us back on the highway before we got down to the blockade.
Tell me that had some legitimate law enforcement reason.
Yeah right!
Perhaps the Wayne police were looking for a perp who had taken one of their bullets through his windshield? Of course, in that case they should have had the vehicle description. Once driving on Rt. 22, I and a bunch of other motorists had rocks pelted at us from an overpass (I was quite sure a bullet had come through my windshield). Perhaps something to do with an incident like that? I dunno, I’m stumped.
This wasn’t a mistake. This was murder.
I agree. This is murder. Tyranny at the cold-blooded hands of the state.
Dupnik’s not a fool. He is a totalitarian terrorist who runs roughshod over the Constitution and the basic principle of “innocent until proven guilty.”
Please let Pima pull out of Arizona, but as an independent country, not a state. Good riddance.
The SWAT team unloaded upon Guereña on sight.
So they did not order him to drop his weapon before unloading on him. Which would be procedure only if he was shooting at them first. Which he wasn’t. FUBAR
The part I really can’t get my brain wrapped around is the no medical attention for over an hour. That one’s liable to hang everybody.
Dupnik’s a fool. But then we all knew that.
Not quite correct. If a suspect points a gun at you, you should kill him.
Warning shouts or shots are not appropriate in such a situation.
Define suspect.
That’s kinda the problem, isn’t it? The suspect-assumed-perp is to be killed before he can legally defend himself. Welcome to the USSA, only worse.
“Not quite correct. If a suspect points a gun at you, you should kill him.”
Not quite correct. If a cop points a gun at you, you should kill him.
There, fixed that for ya.
“Not quite correct. If a suspect points a gun at you, you should kill him.”
Agreed. And someone who breaks down my door in the middle of the night without having reasonably presented a warrant for my inspection is a suspect.
No protests, no La Raza marches, no cries for civil oversight. Dupnik is a prog, lib, beloved by the open boarders nuts.
I’m sick to death of hearing about these sort of stories. I no longer trust our police force. I feel like they are our enemies and I have to worry about being shot in my own home. I have grown up trusting them – if the military are the same our country is surely lost and we are under certain terrany.
A hero was murdered in his home. clarence (goober) dupniks’ incompetence can no longer be tolerated. He needs to be charged, and prosecuted for, first degree murder. The intent is evident. As sheriff, he is responsible for the atrocious and barbaric conduct of his subordinates. Make an example out of this disgusting, cowardly buffoon.
It also seems to me, my brother Marine was denied his due process by da damn gummint. Words cannot adequately express the cold outrage and merciless attitude I now have toward ‘law’ enforcement in Pima County.
May clarence dupnik ROT IN HELL. And if confronted by yahoos in Pima county ‘law’ enforcement, I will ‘fire for effect’, offensively.
And the other bumbling incompetent, o’connor, should be drummed out directly into the general population of the AZ state penitentiary’s toughest unit. I imagine this ‘officer’ is about 40-50 lbs overweight and a laughable excuse for a police officer. And he’s also a LIAR. I hope Mrs. Guerena gets to put the needle in the arm of disgusting abomination.
RIP and Semper Fidelis, DevilDog
Let me first start by saying that I am a veteran of not only the military but also law enforcement. I am also a woman who lives and served in the South, specifically Georgia. With that being said I am once again ashamed to be associated with L.E.I certainly don’t want to go off on a rant here or climb a soap box because it is easy to do. I always favored myself to be a fair, professional, respectful, competent, dedicated and honorable officer. However, L.E. has increasingly decreased their ability to be categorized under any of these titles. Either they are fat slobs in wrinkled uniforms and dirty boots or they are extreme hot headed traffic Nazi types. If we are going to have these types as our local L.E. dressed like they are on an elite military strike force then why don’t we simply trade them all in and use the National Guard instead?
It was not long ago that Atlanta P.D. effected a warrant on a so-called drug home. They did this on vague and minimal information from a C.I. which was anything but valid. As a result the elderly woman who lived at the address was shot several times and killed as she tried to defend herself against what she thought was a criminal attempt to rob her. She was in her 90′s. The officers were charged with various crimes, found guilty and sent to prison. So much for the higher standard we expect right?
My thoughts and sorrow goes out to the Guerena family. May he rest in peace and justice rain down upon the heads of those who caused his death because believe it or not we are not all like them.
This was murder one. Why was he not picked up outside the home on the way to or from work? You mean the intel that had this guy, in this house as a suspected dealer yet didn’t know he had a job he went to or his other comings and goings? They could have isolated the guy away from home then gone to the home and issued the warrant to the wife. Two teams in simultaneous communication could have done this so easily. The facts before us at this point, the options not taken, the no-knock and 71 shots, the delayed entry of the paramedics put me firmly for a mass indictment for murder one.
These aren’t police officers;these are statist gun thugs, led by would-be KGB commissar (Dupnik) looking for a job in Obama’s Department of homeland Security,where ex-servicemen are considered terrorists. It’s time to start disarming these SWAT teams where the word T stands not for tactics, but for terror.
Wow. This is the first time I have heard anything about this case.
The mainstream media certainly ensured we all saw Dupnik making his pathetic claims about racism on national television; it is frightening that the same “mainstream” media at best ignored this story, or at worst intentionally suppressed this story.
How many outrages will occur before this totalitarian incompetant boob, Sherriff Dumass (oh sorry, Dupnic), is finally run out of office. When will the people in that county finally wake up.
Interesting isn’t it that totalitarian outrages like this routinely seem to occur under leftists. So much for their concern abut defendents rights.
One quibble with this article. You discussed the possibility of a DOJ civil rights investigation. Are you kidding? Holders DOJ investigate a leftist hero like Dupnic. So what if the victim is a hispanic Iraq war veteran, and no evidence of any criminal wrongdoing on his part was found. The left always protects one of their own, and any investigation of this will rebound on their hero, Dupnic. Obamas DOJ, and his entire administration is rife with leftist cronyism and corruption, any investigation that might harm Dupnic will be spiked.
It is long past the point, for people like this dupnic to be charged and tried.
Only a violent response will do. He must be executed immedietly, along with as many of the murderers who took part in this.
Not a single one of those cops should be left alive.
Only a violent revolution will fix this problem. American blood must flow, inorder for freedom to retake the land.
And remember everyone, keep your hands in the vehicle at all times, roll up the windows, and at all costs, do NOT feed the troll.
This has been a friendly service reminder.
i.e., take your violence elsewhere, and let the grownups talk, mmmm-k? There are serious points being made about improper procedure, use of a swat when detectives would likely have done the job without violence, undertraining (a swat team taking 60+ rounds to down ONE suspect???? Really? Their training staff needs to be fired), and the rights of individuals with respect to also maintaining the law. This is a sad, horrible incident, and needs attention, as do all the issues it brings up, but it also can’t be a battle cry for ‘kill the pigs’. That’s dumb, anarchistic and juvenile, and not at all helpful, unless you’re just trolling for reactions…
Damn. I just fed the troll. sigh…
Yeah, go back to sleep, Gramps. Heard your crap all my life. Your way = MORE OF THE SAME.
If it were up to you, we would still be arguing about King George, and whether or not to write him a firm letter. which he will surely listen to THIS TIME!!
Your children will learn to despise wht you let happen on your watch.
Speaking of those who actually broke away from King George, one of which was John Adams, who might take issue with your desire for the lynch mob.
Adams actually defended, as their lawyer, the British soldiers who stood accused of the killings which we remember as The Boston Masacre.
He thought they deserved their day in court, because, most of the Founding Fathers were zealots with respect to the rule of law.
Are we to suppose that John Adams was carrying water for the redcoats?
John Adams supported tha American Revolution, part of which, we may recall, involved grabbing guns and shooting people to death, without a trial.
Your analogy is weak, and does not hold. Where is the trial, for the man gunned down by the “police”?
You seem to me, a Tory at heart. Blathering on, about the Kings justice, while justice disappears around you. At some point, you got to grow a pair.
This was preventable. Dupnik is a glory hound nothing more. He wants to be famous and popular. thats why he jumped on the shooting of gifford so quickly. nothing to do with justice just wanting to posture. same here. while mistakes can happen I want to know what the prob cause of them busting in 4 houses was? I want to know why they stopped paramedics from going in for almost 2 hrs? There is NO logical cause for that. even if he was a drug dealer. even if he shot first. once he was down he was down and the house can be cleared in min by most standard police, not to mention a properly trained SWAT team. So there can be no other explination as far as i can tell to do that except to kill the witness
Is this not the same Pima county that put down a GI’s dog, brought back from Iraq, and now puts this Vet to death. And could not incarcerate the Gifford meet up shooter?
“The War On Drugs” is actually a war on the citizens of the United States, prohibition is a tax paid by the US taxpayer to the DNC via the trial lawyers’ association and police unions, and other elements of organized crime.
With a little research I suppose we could tally up how many Americans have been killed to assuage the moral outrage some feel about drugs, and we could add many more Mexicans killed for the same excuse. But it doesn’t take much research to know that no one’s life has been made better by getting shot, getting imprisoned, or getting their property confiscated, much like this poor man’s family.
DEA has a budget of roughly $2.5B, which doesn’t include the money spent by other agencies and the courts to enforce some notion of “morality” that drinking is fine but other forms of recreational drugs are not.
True conservatives value liberty over security and smug self righteousness.
God’s speed to you Marine, thank you for your service, may you forgive us for desecrating the country you fought and ultimately died for.
A modest proposal: Let’s legalize claymore mines for domestic use,putting one on a house’s entry points, set for triggering by homeowners when menaced by this type of Stalinist/Nazi KGB/Gestapo murderers.They could be sold and installed by Brinks, or even the Home Depot,and would reduce instances of police terror.
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Justice must be served. People must be fired or even go to jail for murder. This must be fully investigated to the letter. Semper Fi brother, rip.
Nothing will be done.
There will be an “official investigation.” That investigation will mealy mouth some sort of “irregularities” by the police. Then it will be swept under the rug. In in 2 or 3 years, after the CIVIL process has fully burped its way through the system, the county will pay a million or so of tax money to settle the issue.
No police officer will be punished. No criminal indictments handed down. No independent investigation made. No change in the shoot to kill policies. The sheriff will eventually retire with a fat pension, and be mostly forgotten.
It’s just another innocent man gunned down in front of his family.
Welcome to hell, everyone. It’s only going to get worse.
This was Ruby Ridge on a county level!!! What do you want to bet that this “Warrant” was issued based on the word of some low level drug dealer who was tiring to get a deal and that No One in Law Enforcement had any direct evidence of Mr. Guerena or his family doing anything illegal or his home being used for any illegal propose.
WTF is going on with the Police there now a days? They really need to stop killing Innocent PPl. Especially our soldiers.. These ppl need to be put up against the wall, and have our Armed Forces come home and take care of them the way that they Killed this man.. Mr. Guerena Served our country and was Proud of it i’m sure. I hope the family sues the county and the police dept. for everything they can get. But no matter what it won’t bring back a man that was a loving husband and father.. God Bless His family.. May Mr. Guerena Rest in Peace!!
Who are those that see to it that this type of incident (HORROR STORY) is kept from being featured on the major networks?…..Hours and hours of coverage of the most trivial and even boring subjects and this story is not even mentioned…..This is beyond strange. Who are these people and who controls them?
Perhaps this was a case of pure karma at work. How many lives did the ex-marine take during his 2 tours in Iraq? And no, killing because the politicians give you a green light to do so doesn’t absolve you from that cosmic debt.
Quite simply, you are a moron.
Perhaps though, your theory on cosmic justice should be of concern for you for besmirching soldiers in such fashion.
“People sleep safely because rough men are ready to do violence on there behalf.” (forgive me, I do not have Orwell’s quote in front of me to cite it verbatim).
Paul,
Seriously? That has to be one of the most ignorant things I have read in a while. Just curious? Did you answer the call? Were you one of the 1% of Americans whom sign that dotted line with terms that ultimately meant “up to and including my life?” Somehow, I doubt that very much. If not, then STFU. Period. You have no clue as to what it takes or what it’s like to serve in that capacity.
As has been said, Marines stress weapons control at all times, and fire discipline as well – that was why Mr. G. did not shoot back – effective USMC training. SD = authority and Marines are trained to obey it instinctively – that’s why he didn’t shoot. The man’s wife and child were in the home. How does the PCSD justify the volume of fire directed into this home with innocents known – or at least suspected – to be on site? Or rather, any fire at all? How about bystanders? Why do this in a residential area, given the open spaces around Tucson? Why didn’t they try to detain/question/arrest in an isolated area? Surely our subject passed through open areas or sometimes visited them – he must have. What was the evidence cited to obtain the warrant? Who was the source and what was their credibility? How much experience did the investigator have who requested the warrant? How badly did he/she want a promotion? Were they a fair-haired child within the department whom management wanted to see promoted and were willing to tolerate such slipshod work on a warrant to allow the promotion to happen? 77 rounds fired? If the SWAT team was stacked that means they fired past each other in the same direction, at the same time – extremely dangerous! If they entered the residence from more than one location, that is extremely dangerous as well. From personal LE experience SWAT team membership is a definite bragging point among the boys, lots of cowboys apply for it. Our family has had a brush with LE stonewalling at the county, state and Federal level following a death as well as an unwarranted search and harassment case involving another family member – and a serving military member as well. Can’t wait to get my PI’s license so I can start tracking these things and offering assistance to the aggrieved party.
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