Alan Dershowitz and Norwegian Anti-Semitism
On March 29, the internationally renowned lawyer, Harvard law professor, and supporter of Israel Alan M. Dershowitz published an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal about his recent experience in Norway. A Norwegian organization, he explained, had invited him to the frozen North and “offered to have me lecture without any charge to the three major universities” in the country. Now, in these days when lecture fees for high-profile figures like Dershowitz can be outrageously steep, one might expect that any institution of higher education would jump at the prospect of a free lecture by someone of his stature. Yet Norway’s universities turned down Dershowitz’s proposed talk on the Israel-Palestine conflict.
Why? The University of Oslo offered no reason for its decision; the University of Trondheim’s excuse was that the topic was “controversial.” (As if one of the major purposes of a serious university weren’t to discuss controversial ideas!) The law dean at the University of Bergen suggested that Dershowitz serve up a lecture on the O.J. Simpson case (in which Dershowitz served as an advisor to the defense team), “as long as I was willing to promise not to mention Israel.” Dershowitz noted that after decades of holding forth around the world, the only country in which he’d previously been denied a university lecture platform was South Africa during the apartheid era. (At the time, he was representing Nelson Mandela.) Dershowitz ended up giving lectures in Norway under the auspices of student groups.
To anyone familiar with the recent history of Norway, the shabby treatment of Dershowitz by the academic establishment should come as no surprise. The Norwegian cultural elite prides itself on its supposed love of dialogue, and its political leaders are quite self-righteous about their willingness to sit down and talk with the likes of Hamas. But that love of dialogue always seems to evaporate when the potential dialogue partner is a supporter of Israel or a proud, unapologetic, un-self-hating Jew.
Norwegian Israel-haters routinely insist, of course, that their hatred of the Jewish state is not an expression of anti-Semitism. But the record strongly suggests otherwise — and it’s a record that goes back a long way. Every May 17th, Norwegians cram the streets of their cities, wearing quaint native costumes and waving Norwegian flags to mark the day in 1814 when their nation’s constitution was signed. One fact that has long since been dropped down the memory hole is that the second article of that constitution banned Jews from the country. (The exact sentence, in the quaint Dano-Norwegian of the day, is: “Jøder ere fremdeles udelukkede fra Adgang til Riget.” Translation: Jews are still excluded from admission to the Kingdom.)
To be sure, the ban on Jews was lifted in 1851 (only to be reinstated by Quisling in 1942, and again lifted in 1945). But a significant difference between the U.S. and Norwegian constitutions is that while the text of the former remains intact, with its embarrassing old passages retained in the official document (as they should be) and with all changes registered in amendments that appear in chronological order following the original text, the memory of the so-called “Jewish article” has been neatly erased from Norway’s founding document. Though the English-language pages on the Norwegian government’s official website include what is identified as the “complete text” of the country’s constitution; it isn’t complete at all. Not only is the notorious sentence about Jews missing; there’s no indication that it ever was there. But never mind: if the “Jewish article” is gone, the sentiment behind it is alive and well. Indeed, in recent years, the eagerness of bien pensant Norwegians to appease their Muslim countrymen — and, indeed, the entire Islamic world — has helped fuel an increase in public expressions of anti-Semitism, especially by the people who are supposed to be Norway’s best and brightest.
It’s important to note here that Norway’s current Jewish population is tiny — at most about 2,000. In the entire country there are only two synagogues. One of them is in Oslo, a couple of blocks from where I live. In September 2006 four men were arrested for shooting at it. There’s now a guardhouse out front, with an armed guard inside. Along with the Israeli and American embassies, the synagogue would appear to be the most carefully guarded building in Oslo. By contrast, there’s no sign of an armed presence anywhere in the vicinity of the Royal Palace, the Parliament, or any of the major government office buildings.
If the synagogue is a target for assault, it’s hardly because it’s been a center of controversy. On the contrary, as Oslo’s Muslim population has grown, and as anti-Semitic rhetoric by Norwegian Muslim leaders and their cultural-elite allies has escalated, Oslo’s Jews have striven to maintain a low profile. If Norway’s most prominent Muslims have routinely savaged Western values and haven’t hesitated to make it clear that they identify more with their native cultures and with the Islamic umma than with Norway, Norwegian Jews, in the face of ubiquitous Israel-bashing, have gone to extraordinary lengths to assert their Norwegian identity and to distance themselves from Israel.
Indeed, even as life has become more difficult for Jews in Oslo – to the extent that children have been advised not to wear Stars of David or yarmulkes in order to avoid harassment – Norwegian Jews have refrained from complaining, and have instead continually asserted that they’re doing just fine, thank you. No wonder, then, that when Dershowitz met with leaders of Oslo’s Jewish community, he observed that “all they would say is that ‘things are wonderful,’ before falling silent.” But how, he asked, can things be so wonderful for Jews in a country where, for example, kosher butchering is illegal? To which an audience member “quietly replied: ‘We don’t talk about certain things.’”
No, they don’t talk about certain things. Things like these:
- On April 8, 2002, Ingmar Tveitt, a friend of a member of the Norwegian Parliament, walked into the Parliament’s restaurant wearing a jacket with an Israeli flag pin on the chest pocket. After he’d spoken briefly with other diners, two security guards approached him and asked him to come with them “because they had received reactions” to his flag pin. “I asked who had reacted, and what they had reacted to, but got no answer,” Tveitt told Dagbladet. The guards escorted him to the wardrobe, where he was made to hang up his jacket. As Tveitt noted, “People walk around [in Parliament] with Palestinian scarves and other pro-Palestinian symbols without any reaction.” But Israel, of course, is a different matter.
- Of all living Norwegian writers, Jostein Gaarder is probably the one whose work has sold the most copies around the world. His best-known book is Sophie’s World (1991), in which a teenage girl learns the history of philosophy from a mysterious older man. It’s a widely beloved book, and a fond reader might easily picture Gaarder as a gentle, contemplative sort. Nope. In 2006, he published a vicious j’accuse of an op-ed in Aftenposten that read like something out of Der Stürmer. In it, Gaarder read the riot act to Israel: through its actions, he argued, it had entirely lost its right to exist. But Gaarder’s larger subject wasn’t Israel but the Jewish people — or, as he put it sarcatically in the piece’s title, “God’s Chosen People.” Gaarder’s sheer cruelty and nastiness were breathtaking. “We do not believe in the concept of God’s chosen people,” he wrote. “We laugh at this people’s caprices and weep over their misdeeds.” He suggested that many Israelis celebrate the deaths of Lebanese children just “as they once cheered the plagues of the Lord as ‘fitting punishment’ for the Egyptian people.” And he envisioned “little Israeli girls writing hateful greetings on the bombs to be dropped on civilian populations in Lebanon and Palestine” and “strut[ting] with glee over the death and torment.” As if it were Israelis who were putting guns into the hands of children!
I’ve never seen any indication that Gaarder’s op-ed dented his domestic reputation in the slightest. On the contrary, a year after it appeared, bus shelters all over Oslo featured giant pictures of a grinning Gaarder, promoting a book club for children.
- Former Norwegian Prime Minister Kåre Willoch is consistently treated as a sage — a man of deep wisdom and insight about international affairs. He enjoys profound respect, even deference, in almost every corner of the Norwegian establishment. He’s also a virulent anti-Semite. The examples are many, but one will suffice. In 2009, when Obama appointed Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff, Willoch assailed him for picking a Jew. Emanuel’s selection, Willoch argued, augered a pro-Israel policy on Obama’s part. Author and journalist Mona Levin, one of the more prominent members of Norway’s Jewish community, called Willoch “a racist and anti-Semite…the hatred shines in his eyes when he talks about Israel…. There’s not one Jew in Norway who doesn’t feel the same way [I do].”
- On two nights in January 2009, the downtown area of Oslo, normally one of Europe’s sleepiest capitals, turned into a vision of Sarajevo or Gaza at their most violent. Hundreds of young Muslim men committed acts of vandalism that filled block after block of the city with broken window glass. Police turned out in full force, but seemed feeble and pathetic in the face of this massive provocation. The purported reason for the demonstration was anger over Israel’s actions against Hamas. In fact the whole thing was nothing but an explosion of passionate Jew-hatred. Indeed, a short book (which I have not seen) about these days of fury is entitled The Anti-Jewish Riots in Oslo. The scariest thing about the riots is that, although they revealed that a growing minority in Oslo is infected with virulent anti-Western and anti-Semitic sentiment, and though they clearly presaged far worse things to come, they were very quickly dropped down the nation’s memory hole. Nobody ever talks about them.
- In May 2010, as if to compete with Jostein Gaarder, another bestselling Norwegian novelist, Erlend Loe, gave a speech to several hundred demonstrators outside the Israeli Embassy in Oslo in which he expressed his “disgust” with Israel. The demo was in response to Israel’s attack on a supposedly “humanitarian” convoy headed toward Gaza. “Shame on you, Israel!” Loe shouted. “Shame on you!”
- Last month, Norway’s Socialist Left Party, a member of the current governing coalition, said that it was open to the idea of Norwegian military action against Israel: “The international community’s credibility in the confrontation with the Qaddafi regime is weakened when there is no reaction against other states in the region that commit assaults on civilians.”
There’s plenty more, of course, where that came from.
The upside of the Dershowitz story is that his anger over Norway’s shabby treatment of him – and of Jews generally – seems to have awakened at least some members of Oslo’s Jewish community. Baila Odidort, a reporter for a Jewish website, attended a breakfast at Chabad House in Oslo at which Dershowitz met with Jewish leaders. “For local Jews who have grown accustomed to keeping a low profile,” wrote Odidort, “Dershowitz’s fearlessness was a stunning eye-opener.” Odidort provided a vibrant example:
“After so many years of living here and hearing people tell me that day is night and night is day, I’ve stopped screaming that it’s not true,” one of the guests at the Chabad House breakfast who preferred to remain anonymous told Rabbi Wilhelm after the meeting.“Mr. Dershowitz comes along and opens the window and says it’s a beautiful day!”
The rabbi himself made it clear that this guest’s reaction was far from unique: “I received calls and texts from people who finally realized that it’s time to speak up. One woman called me and said ‘we finally have to be vocal about who we are.’ Another said she took the courage to make a statement on Facebook and wrote ‘I am a Jew and I am sticking up for Israel.’”
In the U.S., that Facebook posting might not seem too radical. In Norway – well, it’s a start, anyway. One can only hope that it’s the start of something big. Otherwise Jews in Norway might as well pack up and get out while the getting’s good, and raise their kids in some place where anti-Semitism, sharia, and the rank appeasement of the religion of peace aren’t quite so nakedly on the march. Because unless Norway’s Jews do start speaking up – and doing so as loudly and firmly as those who despise them – the conditions under which they live will only go from bad to worse. And if modern European history proves anything, it’s that there are times when the only thing more dangerous than being a conspicuous and obstreperous Jew is being a meek and compliant one.






“But how, he asked, can things be so wonderful for Jews in a country where, for example, kosher butchering is illegal? ”
Kosher, and its inbred cousin Halal, should be banned in every civilised country.
I’m not even Jewish, but I’ll ask. Ed H., exactly what the devil is your problem? No one is asking you to eat Kosher. No one is demanding Kosher products be included on the menus of every restaurant (as Muslims are demanding for their food laws). And that crack about civilized countries…bugger you mate. My country is far more civilized than whatever rock YOU crawled out from under. If you don’t like it, DON’T BLOODY EAT IT. It’s simple, ya cretin.
Let me play devil’s advocate here – Is the banning of kosher meat related to animal welfare (i.e. humane slaughter) laws? I don’t think I’m getting all the info here.
No, it clearly isn’t about animal welfare. The same Norwegians trying to ban kosher slaughter seem to have no problem beating seals for their fur or harpooning whales.
s the banning of kosher meat related to animal welfare (i.e. humane slaughter) laws?
Yes. European countries are supposed to stun animals before killing them as is the norm in all civilized Western societies. So kosher and halal are not supposed to be allowed. Unfortunately Muslims (and possibly Jews) have chipped away at these laws designed to spare unnecessary animal suffering in most European countries or have received exemptions. (Creeping halal and kosher to be followed by creeping sharia?)
Kosher slaughtering is actually more humane because when done properly the animal is killed instantly. But then coisty has a long record here as a nitwit Jew-baiter.
Pay no attention to gary Rosen; he’s the local jewish bully, the likes of which give Jews a bad name.
So, do you wear the bedsheet or are you just another Bircher?
Such reckless disregard for the First Amendment imperils us all.
A State powerful enough to ban Kosher distinctions can just as easily go after Communion wine…
I’m more surprised that they can ban kosher butchering but not halal – if the kosher procedure violates some animal-welfare regulation, surely halal-style does too.
Actually, the law in question, “Lov om dyrevelferd” (1) (translates to “law on animal welfare”) makes no mention of kosher or halal. The law concerns itself with the welfare of animals, dealing with a wide array of issues concering animals such as medical testing, the use of barbed wire, violent or sexual abuse of animals and of course, slaughter.
What it does say about slaughter is that when an animal is killed, it must be sedated to the point of unconsciousness and remain so from before the killing starts until the animal is dead. (1, §12)
As a consequence of this law about animal welfare, traditional halal and kosher slaughtering is illegal in Norway, as they both prohibit sedating the animal before slaughter. (2)
However, the Islamic council in Norway have given non-traditional halal slaughter methods which include sedating the animals as well as the other restrictions given in the law on animal welfare their blessing. Thus meat from sedated, legally slaughtered animals are sold in Norway as halal meat. (3)
1) http://www.lovdata.no/all/tl-20090619-097-001.html#12
2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhabihah
3) http://www.nortura.no/nyhetsarkiv-2008/historisk-avtale-om-halal-slakting-article21128-13689.html
There’s another recent example of Norwegian hostility to Jews.
A Norwegian comedian named Otto Jespersen made this remark around 2008: ”I would also like to take the opportunity to remember all the billions of fleas and lice that lost their lives in German gas chambers, without having done anything wrong other than settling on persons of Jewish background.”
This is out of context. To be fair, this was an attempt of Jespersens to illustrate how absurd was the Norwegian medias focus on the tragic fate of a kid giraff in a world where human chioldren starve to death every day. It was sarcasm intended to target the media, not Jews, i.e. “This giraff focus is as absurd as if …”. (Nevertheless, a tasteless joke by someone who specializes in provocative “humor”.)
The same man has had horrible jokes about gays, working moms, politicians etc. It is just his sick sense of humour.
I am a Norwegian and I feel very close to the jewish culture. The examples that are mentioned here are bad ones for sure and definitaly our culture is not free of anti semitism – but there are many positive points of Norways relationship with the jewish people as well.
Could you be more specific about the positive aspects of the relationship between non-Jewish Norwegians and Jewish Norwegians? And, can you give details of how and where non-Jewish Norwegians come to the defense of their Jewish population now under siege? Who is openly standing with the Jews in Norway? Please lillemo, tell us?
This sounds to me like the quality of a joke Maher, Letterman or Stewart (aka Leibowitz) would crack.
In a few decades Norway and the rest of the Scandinavian countries will no longer be part of the West, they will be part of Islam. Norway, like the rest of Europe, tried to murder all the Jews living there, and while they failed in that, they managed to drive practically all the Jews out of Europe.
They then replaced their vibrant, productive, educated, hard working, and peaceful Jewish Community which had produced hundreds of Nobel Prize winners with a violent, hatefilled, ignorant, and impoverished Islamic community which despises them and everything that Norway and Europe holds dear.
Indeed, the non Moslems of the Scandinavian countries already live in fear of their Moslems but they no longer have the guts or the will to stand up for themselves even though they know that the Moslems are going to send them back to the Dark Ages.
the day a majority of us accept the truth that the “truly enlightened countries of europe” are some of the most racist corners of the globe (no wonder all our american statists love europe) will be a good day
Agreed. Truth is always good.
Actually, I think America overall is the least racist country. Europeans & Asians routinely make ethnic and racial distinctions that would be completely unacceptable in mainstream America.
Yes, we do have our racists, but they are a tiny minority.
Well said….but let’s see what the Israelis will do to the Moslems in their midst who butcher women and children. The wimps who have sat in the Knesset for the past 20 years do bubkus to protect Jewish Israelis. Acquiesce, appease, apologize…the three A’s that seem to permeate from the State of Israel since Sharon left office.
I’m sorry, Toronto Girl, but you do not seem to know the situation in Israel at all. It was Sharon who forced out the Jewish communities of Gaza which allowed Hamas to take over.
I’m not sure what you would like the Government here to do, but if God forbid, we should become brutal like our enemies are we would lose our belief in the justice of our position. It is that deeply held belief, even among our leftists I might add, which sustains us against the kind of hatred now raging in Norway.
Today in Scandinavia those of us who would like to fight for western Judea Christians values, are getting ostracised if we try, there is to many who close their eyes and pretend everything is like the good old days and react aggressively if their believe is disturbed, Then there is the socialist/islam alliance who make sure that collective guilt of everything western is upheld so they thereby can rule by the guilt tool. The only “comfort” we have is that we are going the same way as the rest of Europe.
Don’t forget that Denmark also is a scandivavian country. And probably the most islam-bashing one in all of europe. And, by the way, they saved all of their jews during the war.
I was in Ireland last year at this time and I was shocked by the wide spread Anti-Semitism and acceptance from all around the subcontinent of Europe. And that it is without condemnation almost exclusively.
After spending 6 months there I came away in disbelief that such hate actually is being fomented for Jews, while islam is being promoted.
once again, the explanation is simple. The bonding that occurs among different antisemetic groups is stronger than the repulsion of cultural differences especially in europe.
I’m looking to purchase a house in the North Atlanta area; looks like I will have to buy a larger house so I can be prepared to take in the Norwegian Jews before the pogroms begin in earnest. America will get the scholars and scientists, while Norway will keep the thugs and terrorists.
Jews will always be welcome in my home. Anyone who doesn’t like it is welcome to kiss (as Hawkeye Pierce so eloquently put it in an episode of M*A*S*H) the back of my front–the fleshy part.
America will get the scholars and scientists,
And the doctors, philosophers, philanthropists, and Nobel prize winners.
We can always use more Jews
As someone who lives in the north Atlanta suburbs, the good news is the cost of homes here are much more affordable than most other large cities. You can actually buy the larger home for the price of a bungalow in LA.
Bring them over…we sure could use ‘em!
Ah yes, the morally superior Scandinavians! I wouldn’t be surprised if they soon reformed those Nordic SS divisions that the National Socialists used in WWII to go down and join up with Hamas and Hezbollah to fight Israel (I would then like to see the IDF annihilate them on the battlefield).
I suspect that the Norwegian anti-Semitism problem comes not from Nazism, but from a resurgence of their old heathen polytheistic religion. Either or, it’s still Gog and Magog at work. The IDF will not have to deal with them, fire from heaven will do nicely.
FULL POINT!!!
What a story. I did not know about this in Norway and I am surprised by it. How can anyone make much sense of this?
So the people would choose ignorance over education, turmoil over stability, chaos over peace and poverty over prosperity?
And if I understand this article correctly, they are walking this path smiling all the way. Maybe it is early fluff headness setting in.
I would suggest that people who would consider their money look to countries that have a lot more smarts than Norway to invest in. Because she has open the door to her own disaster. It will come right on in.
“So the people would choose ignorance over education, turmoil over stability, chaos over peace and poverty over prosperity?”
Not to mention when Muslims force Norway to go the way of sharia, Norwegian women wont’t be putting a lot of kilometers on the family car.
The shame is that besides you an American by birth it appears no one else will speak up for the Jews in Norway. Once again you are a hero to me.
It seems to me, it is time for those 2,000 Jews to leave Norway, not out of fear, but out of disgust. Why hitch your future to a state and a culture like that! The more things change, the more they remain the same.
Could you give me some examples of change? I believe I missed that part!
If Norway ever carried out the Socialist Left Party’s wet dream of military action against Israel, know that those Norwegian forces wouldn’t last an hour.
But don’t think the security needed by Jewish institutions in Norway are unlike those found elsewhere in Europe. They are not. In both Rome and Prague I had to show my passport to attend the synagogues. In Berlin not just the synagogue but a small Jewish eatery had a police guard out front. In Frankfurt the Jewish Community Center sits behind a tall gate, with police guards at the two ends of the blocked off street.
This trend is only partially attributable to Europe’s growing, and blatantly anti-Semitic, Muslim populations. It also reflects the hostility of much of its chattering class – its “intellectuals”, its media, and its feckless politicians. It started with the abject appeasement following the October, 1973 war when much of Europe had its oil cut off and the resulting “tilt” toward the Arabs. It’s only gotten steadily worse since.
All Hebrews should be proud of their heritage. To be ashamed, quiet, ands fearful is a rebuke to the Lord God Almighty. God chose them and they should celebrate that choice. To do otherwise is a sin against God.
“it was open to the idea of Norwegian military action against Israel”
At least they are funny. I would like to see that, Norway would be crushed.
Nostalgia for the Norwegian homeland (that is, nationalism). Socialist. Anti-Semitic. Draw your own conclusions.
You can’t have tribalism and socialism without anti-semtism. And you can’t keep EUropeans from being EUropeans. These things are who they are.
Why do Jews stay in such a despicable and insane country? Israel could absorb 2,000 immigrants in one hour. Being loyal to one’s country of birth is commendable, but it is not worth the price of security, freedom and respect.
Norway, enjoy your freedom while you can. You will all be living in an Islamic hell in another generation.
Europe is done and the Jews need to leave there as soon as possible. Let the antisemeitic Europe become enslaved to their muslim overlords. They deserve it!
As my surname implies, my great-great-grandad was born on a farm outside Oslo.
Norway was once homeland to the berserkers, who fathered children all over Europe having unseamed the wretched.
Now the debased, degenerate rump left residing there in ignominy hoard seeds and award subhumans, strapping bombs to their young, honor as humanitarians.
Elegant article! Full of facts! Draws logical conclusions! Thank you PJM!
Don’t kid yourself, antisemitism runs deep in Norwegian-Americans as well. How do I know? Personal exposure, which I’ll take any day over studies by “distinguished” organizations.
Living in New York I’ve probably encountered many Norwegian-Americans without knowing it. The only certainly Norwegian American who immediately springs to mind–since you raise the subject –is Victor Davis Hanson who is a national treasure and very far from anti-Semitic.
Hanson sounds more swedish.
Yes, yes, what would we do if the world lost Norway? Itis indeed curious that the Eurotrash crap in their pants at the thought of riling North Korea. On the other hand, they have little compunction in trashing Israel despite its sophisticated nuclear arsenal. Perhaps they believe that the Israelis are too polite, to humane, too westernized to consider employing their weapos? Perhaps. But I would’nt bet the farm on it. Keep pushing, world. Armageddon is not a delusion.
“Armageddon is not a delusion.’
Yes – and every indication is that it is going on as scheduled. You don’t think this is all an accident do you?
Not meaning to throw water on your camp fire, however, as I recall Armageddon is a Christian proficiency. That said it would appear that time is may be increasingly near.
“Itis indeed curious that the Eurotrash crap in their pants at the thought of riling North Korea. On the other hand, they have little compunction in trashing Israel despite its sophisticated nuclear arsenal. Perhaps they believe that the Israelis are too polite, to humane, too westernized to consider employing their weapons?”
Actually, that is precisely why. You are right. By and large, people don’t hate what they truly fear, they hate what it is safe to hate, which explains the constant targetting of the U.S. and Israel for the slightest reason, real or invented. There’s no risk involved. Bullies count on that human trait, and generally, they are right to do so. That’s why the bien pensant line up to side with the thugs of this world. It’s so much safer.
Absolutely correct. But the world is deluded if it believes that the Israelis will quietly accept extinction. Having approached extermination once before, having been abandoned by the ‘good people’ of the world once before, I have no doubt that they will employ nukes when faced with elimination. I do not anticipate that the Jews will permit the world to commit that crime again.
No, Israelis will not accept extinction. And American Jews are finally waking up too. The lines are being drawn in a war of ideas among American Jews. The future is going to be more interesting than anyone can imagine. Scary, yes, but interesting.
I am not ooptimistic re an American Jewish awakening. Let’s see who foots the bill for Obama’s reelection campaign. Upper middle class American Jews are disconnected from Israel. Their major concern is maintaining their comfortable lifestyle. Further, their social conscience pose is an attempt to be ‘loved’ and accepted by the majority. They fear rejection or worse, and are unwilling to stick out their collective necks defending Israel. That won’t save them. Goldstone is a perfect example of the mind set that they share: a rejection of their roots bordering on self-hatred. Since its inception, Israel has been held to a higher standard than the rest of the world and criticized for failing to live up to that requirement. Israeli Jews are nothing if not realists. American Jews, in the main, are plain dumb.
Israel was built physically and culturally by E.European survivors of the Holocaust and other Jewish refugees from Arab countries.
These traumatic experiences formed their minds and daily existences.
American Jewry composed of second, third, forth generation immigrants from Eastern Europe -Russia – with strong intellectual ties to the Bolshevik revolution of 1917.
They amassed money, power, unmatched influence and their Leftist leaning passed from father to son…Red Diaper Babies as we call them.
They were saved from the Holocaust, very few if any worked in the nascent Israel to drain the swamps.
They remained at the Wall Street, counted their dividends and nurtured their Marxist Utopia with the N.Y. Times.
They have no connection to Israel as ethnic block: they financing Marxist Utopia with Obamao and any nation-state is anathema for the Leftist, including Israel.
The majority will side with the Kenyan against Israel.
On the money, Prologue. Weakness attracts predators. It is vast quantitative inferiority combined with vast qualitative superiority that makes the Jews an endangered species.
The Norwegian cultural elite prides itself on its supposed love of dialogue, and its political leaders are quite self-righteous about their willingness to sit down and talk with the likes of Hamas. But that love of dialogue always seems to evaporate when the potential dialogue partner is a supporter of Israel or a proud, unapologetic, un-self-hating Jew.
I don’t understand this ongoing targeting of Jews & Israel.
Is antisemitism (closet or otherwise) fashionable amongst the self-anointed cultural élite?
Are Jewish/Israel detractors jealous of success ?
Is the Muslim world embarrassed at the existence of one small entity in its midst that isn’t a failed state with a Quaddafi or some other vicious, slaughtering moron at the helm ?
I read something in the Jewish World Review this morning that made some sense.
The lopsidedness of the voting in international institutions speaks neither to the alleged depravity of Israel nor to the justice of the immoveable ultimata made by the Abbas regime. It reflects a widespread contempt in the world for the Jews—for their intrinsic peoplehood and their achievements, embodied in the State of Israel, in modern nation-building and daring renewal.
As recently as 21st February this year the Oslo municipality demanded that Israel relocate its embassy to a suburban area citing “security considerations.” Plainly it’s an embarrassment to the municipality which bends over backward to appease its Muslim masses who riot at the drop of a hat when they don’t get what they demand. Things can only get worse for Norway’s Jewish community as the growing number of Muslims and Norway’s traditional Jew-hatred fuse into one and a tragedy may well be in the offing. Norwegion Jews should quietly begin to make arrangements to get out now and not ‘wait and see’ by which time it may well be too late. And don’t think of Sweden, things are not a lot better there!
My family is from Norway and my father still lives there part time. He doesn’t even recognize the country that he grew up in. He has no respect for the Norwegian people anymore. They are so liberal and self-righteous and lack any backbone. 25% of the popoulation is on some form of “disability” and nobody wants to work. He says it won’t be long now before Norway is an Islamic nation. They are a small population and lack any will power to resist. Sad state of affairs for the descendants of the Vikings.
The descendents of the Vikings are doing well – in Normandy, England, Scotland, Ireland, Russia, Canada and the United States.
Reading stories such as this one, brings pain in me. Many non Jews in the West, especially in America sympathize with Jews and Israel, and they’re hurt when a Jew is singled out and harrassed simply because (s)he is a Jew; or when Israel, our ONLY real friend and democracy in the troubled Middle East is attacked; and we strongly react, when islam attacks the West, Israel and the Jews.
Many among us will wholeheartedly agree that there isn’t any excuse for such behavior by the Norwegian academy towards Dershovitz. As a former academic I find the three Norwegian Universities’ response to Dershovitz indefensible.
However, let me point out what is currently (I don’t know much about the early 1800s Norway to address the now errased Article of the Norwegian Constitution, and in my humble view any way) at issue here in America and in Europe and it isn’t just political correctness and Western islamophilia. Even though academics recognize that blanket statements are vacuous and morally wrong, whether addressing Jews, Norwegian or Germans or any other social, ethnic, religious (with the possible exception of islam – due to its own unique internal structure) or any other group, they also recognize that many individuals who have written and/or acted in World affairs and brought significant costs to societies, happened to be Jews. I won’t give an extensive list of names, but individuals such as Lenin, Trotsky, Maddoff can serve the purpose at hand. Now, there have been other Jews (Einstein, Spinoza, Wiesel for example) who have brought considerable benefits to humanity, too. And there of course have been other non-Jews who have brought great misery to the World as well (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot are examples in that).
Here’s my point: It would be helpful to the Jewish cause if Jews would do two things: first, drop the use of the term “anti-Semitism” and “anti-Semitic” when criticizing others’s views of certain Jewish or Israeli actions. Second, show some self-criticism, and above all have the Jews take ownership of actions/writings by Jews that have caused grief to this World – Karl Marx (and please, don’t tell me he was a “Lutheran”) his work and his ideology come to mind among some Jewish luminaries who have caused a lot of trouble.
Such actions will take the Jewish cause a long way towards a mutual understanding between Jews and non-Jews in this troubled World. Just my two cents.
Nope – they’ve already done that (nobody can beat themselves up and be self-loathing like a Jew) and nobody cares.
People are anti-semitic simply because they are.
“Painfully said” wrote, “Karl Marx (and please, don’t tell me he was a “Lutheran””
Yes, I will tell you that Marx was Lutheran, because that was his father’s religion. What you are suggesting is that no matter how far a Jew has traveled from his roots, you would continue to consider him a Jew. That is a prejudice that you must overcome, not dissimilar to the Nazi notion. It was quite common for real Lutherans and Catholics to refuse to pray in a particular church because it had too many Jews. This phenomenon was common in Spain after the Jews left and the Conversos stayed behind. Conversos were always suspect. The same occurred in Germany, Austria, etc. when assimilation became a common means to rid oneself of the burden of Judaism. It was a burden only because of such horrific discrimination that rational people unaware of the profundity of their own culture felt justified in their abandonment of it.
Lenin was not a Jew.
Here’s the documentation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Lenin#Early_life_and_background
about Lenin’s family background.
Kate,
When someone uses Wikipedia as their information source to prove something, that person telegraphs to the world that they are not very serious about getting accurate facts.
Oh yeah, I forgot; the arbiter of truth is you and your ilk; stupid me, I didn’t check with you first to get the green light to the Avenue of Truth.
…and above all have the Jews take ownership of actions/writings by Jews that have caused grief to this World –
In real time, I hope the Jews never take ownership of the destructive, self-serving and probably paranoid schizophrenic George Soros.
Who seems rather proud of helping out with the destruction of his people under Hitler.
I have never thought of Karl Marx in terms of Jewishness, only in terms of his personal isolation, anger and the philosophical meanderings that poured out of that. I’ve never thought of Einstein in terms of his Jewishness, only his down home humor, his not wearing socks when he showed up to give a big, important speech to some prestigious audience, or, very affectionately, in terms of his profound aphorisms about God and science.
And I was glad when I finally grokked (more or less) the whole curvature of space/time relativity thing.
I find your thesis, naming good/bad Jews and something about Jews in the here and now taking “ownership” to be ridiculous.
You said:
“In real time, I hope the Jews never take ownership of the destructive, self-serving and probably paranoid schizophrenic George Soros.
Your hope has been dashed. This is from the mouth of the horse, from Media Matters:
“Anti-Defamation League Director Abe Foxman: Beck’s Soros smear is “totally off limits and over the top.”
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201011110003
“some Jewish luminaries who have caused a lot of trouble”
But there have been so many more NON-JEWISH luminaries who have caused a lot of trouble! The fact that you tell only the Jews that we must acknowledge our bad apples and change our ways, while not making the same request of non-Jews, indicates your own prejudice. It is YOU who must overcome your own affliction. The millions of ordinary Jews in the world who are NOT luminaries and are NOT making any trouble owe you absolutely NOTHING. The very real problem of antisemitism is a disease of non-Jews and it is up to non-Jews to cure themselves. Expecting Jews to cure you of this disease is a further indication that you suffer from it.
Caligula, Nero, Attila the Hun, Mohammad, Torquemada, Ivan the Terrible, Lenin, Stalin, Mussolini, Pavelic, Hitler, Himmler, Eichmann, Mengele, Franco, Mao, Russian Czars, Pol Pot, Quisling, Al Capone, Ceausescu, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, Kim Jong Il…
Considering all the beasts from history who weren’t Jewish, please put your mark of Cain on someone else’s forehead.
Quite disproportionally so, given their relative population size.
Huh? If you would write a complete sentence, perhaps your meaning would be more easily understood.
Are you suggesting that Jews are disproportionately evil? That Jews have contributed a higher proportion of trouble-makers?
In fact, Jews have contributed POSITIVELY to the world FAR out of proportion to their small numbers. THAT is the most notable disproportion where Jews are concerned.
It’s the envy that fact elicits which compels people to conclude the opposite, as you seem to be doing now.
When a benefit-cost analysis is to be carried out, it would be hardly reasonable to ask only those who cause these benefits and costs and exclude those who incurred the alleged benefits and costs from testifying about them. In a Western setting, one is conditioned to think so; in a Middle Eastern setting, well it’s another matter.
The moral of the story? You are hardly the one to pass final judgement on these ‘benefits’ and ‘costs’ – capiche?
Both Lenin and Hitler had Jewish blood in them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Lenin#Early_life_and_background
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler#Ancestry
not overwhelmingly so, but significant to some extent.
The long list of history’s monsters contains almost no Jews. I suppose this fact drives Jew-haters to spread the fiction that a few of the monsters might have had some drops of Jewish blood in them.
And how guilty should Jews feel if one or two monsters among so many non-Jewish ones might have had a distant Jewish ancestor?
Painfully Stupid said:
“Lenin”
Of course he wasn’t Jewish. No better marker of antisemitism (sorry LOL) than “accusing” someone of being Jewish when they aren’t. Like Jesse Jackson saying Nixon aides Haldeman and Ehrlichman were Jewish.
…moronic rosen. Facts don’t lie humans like you do.
Yeah, that’s real convincing evidence pal, “some say” in Wikipedia. “Some” can say anything. Some say you couldn’t find your butt with both hands, a flashlight and a GPS. But maybe I’m wrong.
Norway has all that North Sea oil. Maybe that helps explain their anti-Israel/Jewish attitudes. “Follow the money!”
Toronto girl:As a Norwegian I should be angry with your calling my country insane – but in the case of our authorized anti-semitism I will have to agree! This is what happens when much of the government – and ALL of the press – has been brainwashed into defying the history of Israel – authored by e.g. Mr Dershowitz about whom Bruce was speaking in the article.. I came very late to acknowledging the grave harm done to people’s mind on this subject, but have been fortunate to avoid the vacuousness of students ‘schooled’ in the fifteen-year period between 1967 and 1982 – thank God! We – the conscious rear guard of Norwegian Enlightenment – are establishing groups called MIFF=Med Israel For Fred*, thus hoping to recruit minds not clogged up by ignorance on this conflict..
*With Israel For Peace
The behaviour of the anti-Jewish, Moslem-loving sanctioned Norwegian government is INSANITY. They are embracing darkness over light. How else shall I describe it? I am sure there are many Norwegian people who hate what is happening to their country, but if so, why do we not hear of them taking to the streets in protest?
ok, that was funny. what’s your fark handle?
Soldier on! God speed!!!
Norway has cheapened the Nobel Prize by making it a leftist toy trinket.
They want to give a “kick in the shin” to non-leftists, this is a country that has lost its soul.
The only appropriate Jewish person, is a J Street liar, who hides his traitorous stance against Israel out in the open. Soros would make a good Norwegian. So would Chomsky.
But do not believe for one moment that this nasty bit is only served with lutefisk and lefse…it is served up in heaping mouthfuls by the BBC, in France, in Germany, and all across the leftist glens and dales of pastoral Europe.
So that one does not think that our own leftists are slackers, our lapdog media fuels much of this and has for over four decades and the wire services are infamous for throwing logs on this fire. Leftism despises Israel’s very existence. The irony of Jewish participation in leftism with one eye on being accepted as “one of the leftists” and the other eye on not getting ground beneath its jackboots is this millenium’s greatest unsolved riddle.
Hateful Leftism is a pernicious disease. And it seems to attract itself to Jewish genes with remarkable ease, even as Jews are a target for its most horrifying effects. And from there, it is able to eat away at the very flesh of its host. I am saddened by all the horrors that it brings and by what I see as its inexorable march toward the destruction of America and Israel. I fear it will not be stopped. Norway be damned, it’s America I’m worried about…and our national soul, which may be next.
“The irony of Jewish participation in leftism with one eye on being accepted as “one of the leftists” and the other eye on not getting ground beneath its jackboots is this millenium’s greatest unsolved riddle.”
Boy, have you nailed it! I can attest to that. I also don’t get it, but it’s true. I have concluded a significant percentage of my family and friends have taken complete leave of their senses.
“Norway be damned, it’s America I’m worried about…and our national soul, which may be next.”
And I worry about that too!
“The irony of Jewish participation in leftism with one eye on being accepted as “one of the leftists” and the other eye on not getting ground beneath its jackboots is this millenium’s greatest unsolved riddle.”
I think there is a recent book or two written on that conundrum.
“An appeaser feeds a crocodile hoping it will eat him last.”
(W. Churchill)
Appeasers are just fresh meat to Islamists bent on the destruction of Israel and the eradication of the People of the Book.
I’m sure that if Yasser Arafat were alive today, he’d be treated like a king in Norway and would be allowed to speak wherever he wanted. And this is a NATO country that supposedly shares our democratic beliefs and our views on free speech? How pathetic.
Is it a surprise that ‘Quisling’ is the only Norwegian contribution to the English language?
A lot of them are still Fascist collaborators with Nazi sympathies.
The only reason they prosecuted the Quislings after the war was because they aided the German occupation force. There were (And still are) a lot of them that agree with the fascist Nazi ideology, including their hatred of the Jews.
And I used to be proud of my (small) Scandinavian ancestry.
I’ve just read a biography of Roald Dahl. He said he was not anti-Semitic: he just hated Israel. Though he was British by birth, both his parents were Norwegian. This seems to explain a lot. ’Not cricket, as far as I’m concerned.
Yes, what’s happening in the West—appeasement of all sorts of base (as in ignoble) forces at home and creeping (moving fast towards a gallop) dhimmitude from without—is dispiriting, to say the least. The psalmist’s “My bones are out of joint” exactly describes my feeling about a society—the post-Christian West—which is committing suicide with gay abandon. (Re “gay”: both its original and pun meanings work here.)
Kyrie eleison, and Shalom to my Jewish brothers and sisters everywhere.
For the wider world Jews represent Judaism. Even when an individual Jew has abandoned every speck of Jewish identity or practice. Judaism is hated because it proves that G-d exists. That He is real and that ultimately there are consequences for behavior. Human beings bridle at rules and regulations that are imposed upon them. That is natural and in some cases good and can lead to a better world. Yet when people ignore the rules for life given by the Almighty the outcome is always the same- disaster.
Those of the left or the right share one trait in common- their desire to impose their will on others. These leftists or rightists are challenged by the reality that a G-d exists whose rules for mankind are beyond their manipulation. Try as they can neither leftists or rightists can fully impose themselves on others as long as Judaism proclaims, Jewish existence proves and the state of Israel confirms that there is a Judge beyond their influence and control. That is why Judaism, the Jews, and now Israel, are hated, because we represent a Truth that can not be overcome.
Israel is hated because it represents the Truth of Judaism.
” The most significant aspect of the establishment of the state of Israel is the fact that Jews through the ages knew it was to come. ”
Rabbi Eliezer Berkovits, Faith after the Holocaust
“Those of the left or the right share one trait in common- their desire to impose their will on others.” You make so much sense most of the time. So it surprises that you would make a statement like this. Being on the right means imposing only one thing on anyone else: leave me the hell alone. If the imposition of will is to force others not to force their will, then by all means, let’s have more of it. It’s called….freedom. So I guess you can conclude that we on the right wish to impose freedom on all. Pretty raw deal, huh?
When I said ” the right ” I was not speaking about the conservative movement. I was speaking about totalitarianism from the right. I consider myself a proud conservative. You jumped the gun.
NAME ONE TOTALITARIAN MOVEMENT OF THE RIGHT. A totalitarian movement of the right would demand that everyone have no..totalitarianism. You are certainly confused about right vs. left. The further right, the more freedom. I jumped the gun? You’re shooting blanks bro’.
Naziism and Islamism come to mind.
“some Jewish luminaries who have caused a lot of trouble”
But there have been so many more NON-JEWISH luminaries who have caused a lot of trouble! The fact that you tell only the Jews that we must acknowledge our bad apples and change our ways, while not making the same request of non-Jews, indicates your own prejudice. It is YOU who must overcome your own affliction.
The millions of ordinary Jews in the world who are NOT luminaries and are NOT making any trouble owe you absolutely NOTHING. The very real problem of antisemitism is a disease of non-Jews and it is up to non-Jews to cure themselves. Expecting Jews to cure you of this disease is a further indication that you suffer from it.
Caligula, Nero, Attila the Hun, Mohammad, Torquemada, Ivan the Terrible, Lenin, Stalin, Mussolini, Pavelic, Hitler, Himmler, Eichmann, Mengele, Franco, Mao, Russian Czars, Pol Pot, Quisling, Al Capone, Ceausescu, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, Kim Jong Il…
Considering all the beasts from history who were NOT Jewish, please put your mark of Cain on someone else’s forehead.
You said, “The very real problem of antisemitism is a disease of non-Jews and it is up to non-Jews to cure themselves” well, islam says the same thing about Jews and Christians that criticize islam (they call it “islamophobia”).
I take it then, you don’t wish as a group to claim ownership of the acts by such ‘renegates’ (for a lack of a better term, one could also refer to them as “extremists” I suppose) of Judaism; then don’t complain about the treatment the likes of Dershovitz receive around the world. At the end, the Western World will never be Middle East and will never succumb to a Middle East mentality, and both islam and Judaism might discover this in a painful way, I’m afraid.
Dershowitz, Norwegians the Israeli Press and ObamaJews.
The connection between the four is not physical but intellectual.
The online English language Israeli news website of Yedioth Ahronoth, Israel’s most-read newspaper published an article yesterday titled The anti-Israel Jews which is well worth to read.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4052646,00.html
It lists by name the most vile Jewish Israel haters by name and one will notice that all to a man are radical Marxist, Communist.
The Soros and Jstreet-Obamabots types.
With all sadness I am compelled to conclude that Mr. Dershowitz – a devoted Marxist – belongs to the same group with his sympathy for Israel notwithstanding.
Just like Ed Koch of N.Y.C. who voted for the Kenyan and complained about him afterward.
My point is that these people moral outrage is questionable if not outright dubious; – or let’s use the “broken clock” aphorism to describe them.
And now the Norwegians…what do you expect from Hitler’s allies – including the “neutral” Swedes?
“It lists by name the most vile Jewish Israel haters by name and one will notice that all to a man are radical Marxist, Communist.
The Soros and Jstreet-Obamabots types.”
European, you make an excellent point. Unfortunately there are plenty of Israel-hating/Jew-hating Jews, their professed love of Israel not withstanding. They are trying to square the circle, and they can’t. It is getting increasingly difficult to have one foot in each camp. The time is coming when people will have to decide who they are. I am still confident. I live with hope.
Poor Alan. He was treated the way many of us are treated by his cohorts on the left. Maybe the scales will fall from his blinkered eyes? Nah. Old habits die hard.
This has nothing to do with that man but the question I have is that can someone be anti-Israel or criticize Israel without being anti-Semitic?
I know my older brother is anti-Israel because of various domestic and trade policies they have however no one outside of our families knows that because hes afraid of coming off as anti-Semitic Jew hater.
Sure, you can criticize Israel and not be anti-Semitic, I do it all the time. I criticize Israel when the Orthodox don’t let Reform or Conservative Jews marry, or make them go to Cyprus to do so, or even interfaith weddings. Or idiot Haredim (ultra-Orthodox) throwing stones at drivers on Saturday (Shabbat) and the government not do too much to stop them. Those are bad policies and can be criticized.
You can criticize their foreign policy at how appeasement oriented they are, still wedded to Oslo and can’t see the forest through the trees. That’s not anti-Semitic. You can criticize their unwillingness to confront the Waqf, the Muslim authority who controls the Temple Mount, for digging and trashing thousands of years of Jewish artifacts under the Mount. There’s lots to criticize Israel for that’s not anti-Semitic, it happens all the time. Just read the newspapers there. Two Jews…three arguments, right?
Where it turns into anti-Semitism is when it follows Sharansky’s Three D’s: Demonization, Double Standards, Delegitimization.
Hope that helps.
The “three D’s” are good, especially the Double Standard. Israel is not perfect (no human institution is) and yes, they have sometimes treated the Palestinians harshly. But by any remotely objective measure Israel is a shining beacon of liberty, democracy and human rights compared to the rest of the Middle East, most of which is a bloody abominable human rights hellhole as we are now having so vividly displayed for us by the many revolts and uprisings taking place.
“Two jews three arguements” Hehe!Indeed.Israelis are quite fiery in debates that ive seen.Heck even in Canada ,jews can get into it when they are passionate about something.But not once here in my country have i seen jews call for the death of someone who disagrees with them.Not once in my personal experience.
I am an anti-Semitic Jew hater.
Why do they always have to bring guitars and boom boxes every time they climb up volcanos which is not the eco-experience I crave? Why do they always wear black AC/DC t-shirts and have these weird layered mullet/lesbian haircuts and would it kill them to sit in a chair instead of squatting all the time?
Oh, sorry. That’s Indonesians.
Never mind.
You’re a weird guy, James, but you’re occasionaly amusing.
There were two American Pentecostal Christians on opposite sides of the Suez Canal. One American Pentecostal Christian said to the other American Pentecostal Christian, “How can I get to the other side?”
The other American Pentecostal Christian said, “You ARE on the other side.”
- Book of Ecclesiastes (2007 Edition)
To criticize Israel does not make one an anti-semite. To attack Israel does.
Is your brother as vociferously anti-Hamas? anti-Sudan? anti-Syria? anti-Iran? …. etc., etc.,…. Hmmm?
chris,
Is there something unique about Israeli trade policies that are different and more unfair than any other country in the world? Does he vent about European Union trade practices? How about China? What about Argentina? Your brother is an anti-semite because he has focused his anger on the trade practice of one tiny country, that just happens to be the only Jewish majority country in the world.
The Norwegian author in question published a letter in WSJ yesterday refuting the allegations and showing how his words were distorted and taken completely out of context.
The desperate PR propaganda trying to equate anti-settlerism with antisemitism has been a complete fail and is now counterproductive.
Best advice- Stop Digging.
Norway is a committed member of the new NATO strategy for the next decade–which is in complete alignment with fundamental American interests.
Just as a point of reference, “Victor” is a proven liar, a malevolent antisemite and a paid propagandist for the Islamist Turkish government.
NATO is an anachronism and almost as corrupt as the UN. The inclusion of Turkey in NATO despite its genocidal campaigns against the Armenians and Kurds certain proof of the point.
Norway is a committed member of the new NATO strategy for the next decade–which is in complete alignment with fundamental American interests.
Somehow I doubt the US (or anyone else for that matter) will ever need to rely on Norwegian armed force. As for NATO, the Cold War is over. Time to wrap it up before its members drag the US and Canada into another unnecessary war like Serbia or Libya.
I too have been thinking about the value of NATO in light of European anti-semetism which appears to remain and Europeans havent learn a thing since WW2.Maybe its time we save what jewish people are left in Europe ,and spend our money more wisely in the West.
Form a new alliance of republics and democracies starting with North America and expand our membership from there.Islamists and dictatorships need not apply.
The issue about jewish settlements in the West bank is a wedge issue for Islamists.If Israel gives on it,then it will be something else like pre-67 borders or the Golan heights.Humanity has a terrible record for discriminating against those of jewish faith for a very long time.
If these people arent anti-semites then they should be encouraging palestinians to accept jews in the west bank as neighbours, like Canada does for most israelis who come here.We also accept persians,saudis,and palestinians who are willing to follow our way of life.
Palestinians are immature as a people and cannot provide the basic protection of other humans they live with.Israel on the other hand can.Defense of the West bank is critical for Israelis regardless of who lives there.
NATO is an anachronism. America’s future lies with the capitalist East. Suicidal and socialist, Europe needs to be left behind.
I think the Norwegians and the Swedes (but perhaps not yet the Danes) long for the simplicity and moral certitude that comes from submitting their necks to the slavers’ yoke. The slavers–this time around–being the Islamists. There will be no more environmental law, there will be no more labor law, no civil rights law, tax law, constitutional law, not even any maritime law: there will only be sharia.
I have relatives buried in Malmo; I fear that their graves are already being desecrated. My only consolation is that the political and moral descendants of Vidkun Quisling will get exactly what they deserve: eternal slavery to Islam.
“then don’t complain about the treatment the likes of Dershovitz receive around the world.”
The likes of Dershowitz? What is he guilty of? Defending Israel with brains and passion? Shouldn’t a university be open to dissenting views like his? Or does one earn disdain and opprobrium if one opposes the anti-Israel groupthink on campus? You dismiss him like he’s a know-nothing lowlife. Perhaps you’re simply AFRAID of the ideas he would put forward, and how persuasively he would make his case. Therefore, he must be silenced!
“At the end, the Western World will never be Middle East and will never succumb to a Middle East mentality”
There’s no such thing as a “Middle East mentality”. The mentality of Jews in Israel is rather different than the mentality of Arab Muslim zealots who blow themselves up.
But you’re kidding yourself if you think the West bears no resemblence to the Middle East, the birthplace of the Bible which still profoundly influences millions of Westerners.
There are many historical, mostly negative examples of the “dershowitz-s” type individuals whose name is not palatable to mention here.
The gist of the matter is that he is a militant member of the radical Marxist group which targets Israel destruction.
Israel is his only positive obsession – a laudable stand – but his wholehearted support of the Kenyan and his policies renders his argument moot.
You ought evaluate the lifetime actions of an individual not just pluck out one thing you agree with. If the Kenyan succeeds to cause harm to Israel then all his supporters are even more guilty for their choice.
Sweden declared neutrality during WWII, not Norway. Norway was not an ally of Nazi Germany during WWII. Norway was attacked and conquered by Nazi Germany in 1940. Quisling was Adolf Hitler’s puppet from 1942 to 1945. After the war ended he was tried, convicted and executed. Quisling was a traitor to Norway.
Perhaps some people (e.g. Norwegians) or European countries (such as Norway) would feel more favorable toward Israel (and Israelis) if the Israelis stopped building settlements in Palestinian territory. But I have noticed that as soon as one says that, one is immediately labeled anti-semitic.
I’m Jewish and I wouldn’t label you antisemitic for objecting to the settlements. Most Israelis don’t support the settlements either. But it’s important to remember that settlements are NOT the root cause of the conflict, which started long before the first settlements appeared.
It’s more likely that people are called antisemitic when they show a contemptuous disregard for the arguments put forward by anyone who defends the right of settlers to live there.
I didn’t show a contemptuous disregard for the right of Israelis to occupy Palestinian territory. If one ascribes to the belief that ‘to the victor goes the spoils’, then one must acknowledge that the Israelis kicked a## in 1967 and should be entitled to occupy all conquered land. But the same is not true for the 1973 conflict, when the Israeli miltary proved somewhat less than invincible and the US intervened.
I am also very much aware that Hamas (in Gaza) and Hezbollah (in Lebanon) continue to fire rockets into Israel and kill innocent Israeli citizens. But are you also willing to acknowledge that Israeli soldiers continue to kill innocent Palestinians?
The Jewish argument for the establishment of Israel as their homeland is based on the fact that Jewish people occupied Israel for thousands of years up to about 700 AD. I also know that many Jewish citizens of Arab and European nations were forcibly evicted from their homes/lands and ‘resettled’ in Israel.
But Muslims occupied the land from about 700 AD up until creation of the Jewish state of Israel. Are you willing to acknowledge that many non-Jewish Palestinians were forcibly evicted from their homes in Israel and ‘resettled’ in Lebanon, Jordan and elsewhere? Are you willing to grant these Palestinians (and their descendants) the right of return to their homeland? Israel sure won’t because to do so would create an Israeli state with a Jewish minority, and that would be the end of their theocracy. On top of that, Israelis continue building settlements in the West Bank. Why?
It seems to me that BOTH sides go back in time and select a date (any convenient date) when their people ‘ruled’ the land and use that date as a justification for why their ‘tribe’ is entitled to ALL the land. If they can’t get what they want, then they resort to military aggression and terrorism.
I thought (hoped) as people of the world we had evolved beyond the mentality of ‘to the victor goes the spoils’. But I see no evidence that either the Palestinians or the Israelis have given up that notion. Until BOTH sides do, there will continue to be conflict.
I find the whole thing absurd. Both ‘tribes’ claim to be direct descendants of Abraham. But the Jewish people claim Judaism predates Islam by many thousand of years (which is true). Some religious scholars, however, think the term ‘Abraham’ is derived from the Hindu God, Brahma. Hinduism predates Judaism by thousands of years. Using the tortured logic used by others, then does that mean Israel should be designated a Hindu state and we should ‘resettle’ Hindus in India to Israel?
But most of all – as a US taxpayer worried about the ballooning deficit – I question why billions of US taxpayers dollars are spent every year on this ridiculous tribal warfare.
‘But Muslims occupied the land from about 700 AD up until creation of the Jewish state of Israel. ‘
And so did Jews. There has been CONTINUOS settlement of Jewish people in the Holy Land, even after the Muslims came in to rape and pillage their way into ‘civilization’. This did not give them ‘ownership’ of the country.
It has not escaped my attention that you are all dodging the most relevant question – why must I pay to support this theocracy?
” Perhaps some people (e.g. Norwegians) or European countries (such as Norway) would feel more favorable toward Israel (and Israelis) if the Israelis stopped building settlements in Palestinian territory. But I have noticed that as soon as one says that, one is immediately labeled anti-semitic. ”
Perhaps we Israelis would feel that the Norwegians and other European countries were not ant-semitic if they acknowledged that we Israelis DID dismantle twenty five settlements and DID force ten thousand Israelis from their homes to turn over territory to the Palestinians and in return have more rocket and terror attacks on our women and children and a terror state as a neighbor.
Asking us to make the same mistake twice, to commit national suicide, is indeed anti-semitic.
Israel is already committing national suicide by refusing to cut a deal with the Palestinians before they outnumber the Jewish population in Israel. The demographics are not on your side.
Not at all. They simply need to become Jordanian citizens. Then, as long as they obey the law, they are free to remain in The Jewish State. If they wish to live in an Islamic country in ” Palestine ” they are a twenty mile bus ride from Amman.
Yeah, Tijuana is a 20 mi bus ride from San Diego; Ciudad Juaraz a 20 mi bus ride from El Paso. Denying citizenship to those born in the country to parents born in the country (to grandparents, great grandparents ad infinitum) ON THE BASIS OF RELIGION IS A HALLMARK OF A THEOCRACY! It is unconstitutional in the US. You do not a God given right to my hard earned tax dollars to pay to defend YOUR THEOCRATIC STATE! Your belief that you do simply indicates that you are suffering from a narcissistic sense of entitlement and explains why you accuse any who do not share your delusions of grandeur as being anti-semitic.
You are rewriting history.
Let’s go step by step. The settlement movement – something you vehemently oppose – was the result of the ’67 Arab-Israeli war.
Did the Europeans support the settlement less Israel prior to the war?
No they did not. The French even refused to deliver some warships already paid. Not a single European country came to the aid of Israel.
I am European, you cannot fool me; – the guilt for the Holocaust wearing off so the 2000 years Jew hatred emerging again.
Europeans did not tolerate the Jews in their midst in the European continent. Now they are coming after them to Asia while conjuring up inane pretexts.
Concern for Palestinians…yeah, my foot…
Please drop the crap the fake love for the Palestinians.
Have the Euros protested the Jordanian massacre of the Palis? No.
The long history of Norwegian antisemitism is described here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Norway
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You are either ignoring or are completely oblivious to history. See above.
To IMG29: “Perhaps people will be more favorable to Israel if Israelis stopped building settlements in Palestinian territory”. I don’t believe this statement is anti-semitic by itself, but it contains so many wrong assumptions for which the truth is easily available on the web that I have to conclude:
1. You really are as naive as you sound, but probably not anti-semitic. 2. YOu have heard the opposing arguments but dismiss them as they are made by Jews/ Zionists/ Israel supporters who you regard as liars – that sounds slightly anti-Semitic to me.
3. YOu know the truth but prefer to keep throwing wool in people’s eyes – maybe there are other really naive readers out there who you can draw into the anti-Israel camp – that sounds very anti-semitic to me.
So which is it?
Robert, concerning Armageddon. What the heck is a “Christian proficiency” ??
Do you mean “Christian prophecy” ?
Propensity? Propinquity?
The root cause of the ME problem is exactly the same root cause for all of the western world. Is it to be Islam or as muslims like to think, or nothing else?
However the person who will observe can take a look for themself and judge.
Was not Pakistan and Israel born at about the same time as countries? It is not a question of money. Because no matter how much money is thrown at either one, they are what they are.
But which will Europe choose to follow as their own personal fate and destiny? Do they aspire to the rule of Islam or the rule of the Almighty?
Because the choice has plain, open and obvious results for all to see.
The world is at a crossroads in time and they will definitely receive in full measure the choices that they make.
It will not be a long, drawn out process. It will be swift, decisive and pretty close to immediate. It only takes about the same amount of time it took Israel and Pakistain to take ‘root’.
Thing is where are Norwegian Jews supposed to go to? Sweden?! Denmark? It’s not so great there either (I mention these two countries because they are the easiest to adapt to for Norwegian Jews). The whole of Europe and the UK is basically unpleasant at best, dangerous at worst. The whole of Europe is hostile to Jewry, and it’s just getting worse and worse.. Things are getting worse even in North America, but still much better than in Europe (in the US and Canada Jewry there has its collective head up its collective ass, excuse my crudity. Notable exceptions of course – Dershowitz is a stand-out example – including posters here naturally), that however is no cause for comfort.
Seriously where can they go? I mean other than Israel, which ain’t no picnic..
Australia? (where all the South African Jews have emigrated). It’s okaaay, like Canada I reckon. New Zealand? The last outpost of the British Empire, with all the good and bad that implies (the bad – there is considerable anti-Semitism there).
Japan? I’m not even kidding, culture shock and you need to learn Japanese, but then Japan isn’t really taking immigrants in (maybe they can make an exception for a mere two thousand Jews).
What in the world are you going on about?
Have you lost your marbles?
Its a shame Bawer is an outright liar.
“On two nights in January 2009, the downtown area of Oslo, normally one of Europe’s sleepiest capitals, turned into a vision of Sarajevo or Gaza at their most violent. Hundreds of young Muslim men committed acts of vandalism that filled block after block of the city with broken window glass.”
Exactly 5 windows got broken, 2 at Mc Donalds and some in the local freemasons temple. Nobody got hurt, except for a pro-Israeli who got a beating on the first day. 100s of norwegian non-muslims participated in the riot.
His claim that there are no armed guards at the royal palace is a lie too. We have the Norwegian royal guard there 24/7, fully armed.
And its the same for Dershowitz: He was on a trip to visit an extreme-right christian network, and invited himself to various universities. He even demanded to meet our foreign minister, and complains in norwegian press that his failure to comply is a result of anti-semittism. Its a act of cutzpah that has very few paralels.
#37 hit the nail on the head. These elitist snob Eurotrash socialists seem to be relishing their role as bootlickers of the new global caliphate. If you are a native European, anything you say critical of women, homosexuality or Islamism can have you hauled before a judge and fined, but if you are a Muslim, you can spout the vilest genocidal hate speech against Jews, gays and Westerners and no one will lift a finger against you. You can rape Westernized women with impunity, and the victim will be blamed for being provocatively dressed. Yet the native Europeans find in their hearts the most extreme hatred for Jews and Israel. In a sense, it is poetic justice that the Europeans, who ethnically cleansed a well-assimilated peaceful minority that contributed something to Western culture, and allow the skeletal remnants of said population to be terrorized daily, will become dhimmis and fearful outsiders in their own countries. Soon, the Europeans will be ethnically cleansed from their own lands by the 7th century tribal primitive religious fanatics they so love and support. What comes around goes around. They have sowed the wind and will reap the whirlwind.
On another note, Jews should stop using the word “anti-semitism” to denote hatred of Jews. Use the favored derivative of liberals, “Judeophobia”. There is a lot more irrationality in Judeophobia than there is in that made-up term “Islamophobia” (it is not Islamophobia if they really ARE trying to kill you)
Well, now that we’ve established the Pentacostal bigots in Norway are lost to humanity because they can’t stop thinking of people whose great numbers they could fit into a high school gym who’s next on the list?
Portugal? Greece? How about Poland, that’s always a good one.
How about America? We had legal slavery in the mid-19th century and Jim Crow in 1942 and no need for occupying German armies to convince us to do so. Maybe we really are sullied by our history or maybe it’s just in our blood.
Certainly many think so or they wouldn’t be on this multicultural kick in America that will dilute hateful Europeans to the point where their innate racism and Imperial ways will give way to a peaceful society. Putting Norwegians in re-education camps sounds like a good start. I’m boycotting “The Mighty Thor” and putting my old Marvel Comics into a fried bacon Koran sandwich and burning the lot.
What about Sweden? Is there any word from Malmo since the Martian landings cut off all communication?
,,Putting Norwegians in re-education camps sounds like a good start”
_________________________________________
Sure, just that the Gulag invention of yours already happened. Not original anymore. Try something else, you are the intelligent ones, please come up with something new and fresh!
You, unlike the barbaric Nordic people~ you are the smartest in the Universe. Re- education camps, phe- old idea!
James May,
Who is next? Where there is Islam is where these choices have to be made.
If the people would return to their Christian roots and reject the following of Islam, they would not have to endure the misery, poverty and ignorance of Islam. They should remember that they are also making this decision for future generations who may despise the lack of freedom and prosperity.
But as they say….horse….water?
it not his fault and that is right and deal with it
I don’t believe a word what that Dershowitz guy says.
The lefty communist Jews are ruining USA, and it is obvious to anyone who cares to look. They don’t like Israel, they don’t like any country without the infection and a plague of communism.
Obama is Jewish?
Gobbo:
,,The long list of history’s monsters contains almost no Jews.”
__________________________________________________________
Leon Bronstein (Trotsky) : supreme commander of the Soviet Red Army.
Grigory Apfelbaum (Zinoviev) : executive, Soviet Secret Police.
Solomon Lozovsky : deputy Soviet foreign minister.
Maxim Wallach (Litvinov) : Soviet foreign minister.
Yuri Andropov: director, Soviet KGB, later supreme dictator of the Soviet Union.
Jacob Sverdlov : first president of the Soviet Union. Sverdlov ordered the massacre of the Czar’s family–women and children–in the town named after Catherine the Great, Yekaterinburg, (renamed Sverdlovsk in 1924 in honor of the murderer).
Jacob Yurovsky : commander, Soviet Secret Police. Yurovsky led the death squad which carried out Sverdlov’s order for the murder of the Czar’s family.
Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich : chief mass murderer for Stalin, ordered the deaths of millions and the wholesale destruction of Christian monuments and churches, including the great Cathedral of Christ the Savior.
Mikhail Kaganovich : deputy commissar of heavy industry, supervisor of slave labor, brother of Lazar.
Rosa Kaganovich : Stalin’s mistress; sister of Lazar.
Paulina Zhemchuzina: member of the Central Committee and wife of Soviet Foreign Minister Molotov.
Olga Bronstein : officer, Soviet Cheka Secret Police, sister of Trotsky, wife of Kamenev.
Lavrenti Beria. Beria was Stalin’s party associate and confidante from their native Georgia. In 1938 he was put in charge of the dreaded NKVD. Beria was responsible for the infamous Katyn massacre of captive Polish soldiers and intellectuals. Beria was also in charge of the Gulag prison system that sent millions to oblivion. Beria was noted for having his bodyguards kidnap young schoolgirls so that he could rape them in his Lubyanka office, which doubled as a torture chamber.
Genrikh Yagoda : chief of Soviet Secret Police, mass murderer extraordinaire.
Matvei Berman and Naftaly Frenkel : founders, the Gulag death camp system.
Lev Inzhir, commissar for Soviet death camp transit and administration.
Boris Berman : executive officer of the Soviet Secret Police and brother of Matvei.
K.V. Pauker : chief of operations, Soviet NKVD Secret Police.
Firin, Rappoport, Kogan, Zhuk : commissars of death camps and slave labour, supervised the mass deaths of labourers during the construction of the White Sea-Baltic Canal.
Leiba Lazarevich Feldbin (Aleksandr Orlov): commander, Soviet Red Army; officer, Soviet Secret Police. Feldbin was chief of Soviet Security in the Spanish Civil War. He supervised the massacre of Catholic priests and peasants in Spain.
Yona Yakir : general, Soviet Red Army, member of the Central Committee.
At least one hundred Soviet generals were Jewish (cf. Canadian Jewish News, April 19, 1989).
Generals who were not themselves Jewish often had Jewish wives. Among these were Marshal Voroshilov, Marshal Bulganin, Marshal Peresypkin and General Pavel Sudoplatov (Sudoplatov assassinated hundreds of Christian leaders including Ukranian Catholic Archbishop Teodor Romzha). This Jewish wife “insurance policy” extended to Politburo members such as Andrei Andreyev and Leonoid Brezhnev.
Sergei Eisenstein: director of communist propaganda films which depicted Christian peasants as hideous, money-grabbing parasites.
KOMZET : commission for the settlement of Jewish Communists on land seized from murdered Christians in Ukraine; funded by Jewish-American financier Julius Rosenwald.
Ilya Ehrenburg , Minister of Soviet Propaganda and disseminator of anti-German hate material dating from the 1930s. Ehrenburg instigated the Soviet Red Army rape and murder of German civilians. Referring to German women, Ehrenburg gloated to the advancing Red Army troops, “that blonde hag is in for a bad time.”
The Soviet leadership acknowledged that Ehrenburg sought the extermination of the entire German people (cf. Pravda, April 14, 1945. [Pravda was also published in a Yiddish edition, Einikeyt). Ehrenburg won the Order of Lenin and the Stalin Prize. He willed his papers to the Israeli Yad Vashem ‘Holocaust’ Museum.
Solomon Mikhoels : commissar of Soviet propaganda.
Soviet film propagandists: Mark Donsky, Leonid Lukov, Yuli Reisman, Vasily Grossman,Yevgeny Gabrilovich, Boris Volchok and Lillian Hellman (old movies written by her continue to be broadcast on American telelvision).
Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee (JAC): new form of the Bolshevik YEVKOM, Stalin’s recruiting conduit for funding money, supplies and political influence for Soviet Russia from world Jewry as well as the dissemination of gas chamber atrocity propaganda (cf. The Black Book).
Nikolai Bukharin: Lenin’s chief theorist
Nikolai Bukharin: Lenin’s chief theorist.
Samuel Agursky : commissar.
Karl Radek : member, Central Committee.
Mikhail Gruzenberg (Borodin): commissar.
A.A. Yoffe : commissar.
David Ryazanov : advisor to Lenin.
Lev Grigorievich Levin : physician, poisoner of Stalin’s enemies.
Lev Rosenfeld (Kamenev): member of the Central Committee.
Ivan Maisky : Soviet Ambassador to Britain.
Bela Kun (Kohen) : supreme dictator of Hungary in 1919. Kun was later Stalin’s chief terrorist in the Crimea. Kun’s eventual successor was Matyas Rakosi, Jewish Communist mass murderer of Christians in Hungary. According to the Jewish Telegraph Agency of May 14, 1997, Jews “…played key roles in ushering Communist rule into Hungary. In fact, during the brutal oppression of the early 1950s, the regime’s top five leaders were Jews. ”
Moshe Pijade (sometimes spelled Piade): commander, Yugoslav Communist People’s Army. Tito’s top butcher of hundreds of thousands of Croatian Christians. Pijade later served as president of the Yugoslav Communist Parliament. At least eighteen generals in the Yugoslav Communist People’s Army were Jewish. The Yugoslavian communist party sent massive arms shipments to Jewish fighters in Palestine in the 1940s.
In post-war Poland that nation was completely dominated by Jewish communists: the torturer Jacek Rozanski, head of the Secret Police; the Politboro commander Jacob Berman and commissars Minc, Specht (Olszewski) and Spychalski . These men murdered or deported to Kolyma and the other Arctic death camps, tens of thousands of Catholic Poles.
As Piotr S. Wandycz of Yale University observes, “The average Pole could not but notice in the Stalinist era that the two most powerful men in the country – Berman and Minc – were both Jewish as was the dreaded security official Rozanski .” (N.Y. Review of Books, Aug. 18, 1983, p. 51).
Wow. Talk about obsession.
We meet, the world wide Jewish conspiracy, on my living room evert Tuesday at 8PM. Consider yourself invited. I’ll get the pretzels. You bring the beer.
Menachem Ben Yakov:
,,Wow. Talk about obsession.
We meet, the world wide Jewish conspiracy, on my living room evert Tuesday at 8PM. Consider yourself invited. I’ll get the pretzels.You bring the beer.”
___________________________________________
Obsession? Really? Read the names of these people- they were bloodthirsty monsters and murderers, and you would like to salute them with a drink of beer?
You think everyone has forgotten everything?
Drink your piss-beer yourself.
Wow. This guy obvously has way way way too much idle time on his hands. Instead of identifying every bad Jew in the world, why don’t you do something useful like… find a cure for cancer… or empty the garbage.
steve from boston:
,,identifying every bad Jew in the world”
_______________________________________
not even close to that- just some monsters about and around Russia.
Here you are, trashing Norway, as if they were the monsters, murderers and traitors, like they are same as the above mentioned scum. Traitors to every country they have ever lived. Even their own country- Israel, they would betray it and trash it.
,,Instead of identifying every bad Jew in the world, why don’t you do something useful like”
_______________________________
the list is large, too large!
But if you wish for one more name, not one of the murderers above, but not less ugly:
how about that most ugly Je-ess from hell- Sandra Bernhard threatening to rape the honorable and virtuous Christian woman Sarah Palin? Do you really think that any Christian in this country will ever forget it?
I thought Sandra Bernhard was deported for singing.
No, that horribly ugly Medusa Gorgon lives quite well in NYC imagining herself of being a ,,great j-ish actress”.
The Latin saying goes “Sine ira et studio” (Tacitus) meaning, “without hate and zealousness”…
so let’s go to the Ynetnews which is the online English language Israeli news website of Yedioth Ahronoth, Israel’s most-read newspaper.
Article by Sever Plocker staff writer.
“Stalin’s Jews”
We mustn’t forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish
Published:12.21.06, / Israel Opinion
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html
Very interesting and informative to read all the 348 Talk-back post by overwhelmingly Jewish people from all over the world.
Thanks European, yes, I was reading it- a very soft article, but at least something has been said. And you are right- the amount of the denials in the comments are amazing! People, who would be totally outraged by the Holocaust denial, without any shame would deny the historical truth. Shameless!
biruta,
All that and a dime won’t buy you a cup of coffee. There is no such thing as any group of people who can claim 100% squeaky clean. Your ancestors and mine; all generations. None exist that are much of an ideal.
Nor does it do much to solve the problems of today with murderous monsters.
Without present focus and future purpose, it is the people of today that are at risk of torture, murder and senselss war. And as they are still living we need to make decisions now.
Menachem Ben Yakov: ,,Obama is Jewish?”
____________________________
Who knows who his mother amd grandma were, but surely,
he sits with the ,,right” people in the WH.
One went back to Chicago, but plenty of them still left there.
waterwillows:
,,All that and a dime won’t buy you a cup of coffee. There is no such thing as any group of people who can claim 100% squeaky clean. Your ancestors and mine; all generations.”
________________________________
My ancestors certainly did not kill the Czar of Russia and his innocent children and wife, and all the nation of Russia. Vicious murderers and bandits. Yours did. Never admitting to their crimes. And after that, sobbing as being the victims for years and years.
Enough already.
Last time I saw such nonsense it was written in crayon on a bathroom wall. What a sad little life you must have.
,,Last time I saw such nonsense it was written in crayon on a bathroom wall. What a sad little life you must have.”
_______________________________________________
Perhaps, when the truth is nowhere to be written and told, the bathroom wall would do as well.
Just try to deny it, one single name of the above list- just try to tell us it wasn’t so- the names of the most horrible murderers? Who are you trying to fool here? The ones who were ready to kiss the J-ish shoes after what this shyster commy lawyer had spewed about Norway? Oh, poor things, they don’t have the kosher meet, what a tragedy! After the ideological followers of Karl Marx and that monster Leo Trotsky made the mothers and fathers of Ukraine, the most bountiful and plentiful land, to eat their own children from starvation. Oh, cry me river for the kosher meat!
When they’re confronted with the extensive list(s) of Jews who have brought untold misery to this world, through either thought (Karl Marx, aka Mordechai) or action (Trotsky, aka Bronstein) the Jews try to make fun of it or treat it like a joke.
Like this attempt at humor about the fraud in the WH – he might not be a Jew (who really knows who his mother/father really are?) but he for sure has surrounded himslef with a bunch of them. The most prominent of course being the Emanuels, Axelrod, Geithner, Bernanky, The Goldman Sachs boys and girls, Kegan, and Cass Sunstein (among the numerous others).
And America is paying the costs of these fine peoples’ actions.
Indeed,Historian~ they are laughing at us at every turn, and everywhere you look. One MUST take that ugly toad Steven Spielberg as a great genius, and the rest of them Hollywood red clowns and commie scam artists.If not, we would be declared anti-Semites. The Bolshevik Jewry rules.
And they laugh and they laugh,- every TV j-ish comedian laughs at the Christians, the Jon ,,Stewart” a.k. Leibovitz, every NYT or what have you, the J-ish owned newspapers laugh at Christians. That is the reason I don’t believe their tears.
“Obama is Jewish”
Yeah, that’s why he’s so pro-Israel LOL. You can always count on antisemites to show their true colors as nitwits and born losers.
Gary Rosen- enough of that anti- semitism crap already. Just as the racism card it has been played far too long, same as with the anti- semitism.
Every commie/ Jew is anti-Israel, unlike us, the stupid Christians, your last best friends, but whom you treat like sh-t anyways.
Biruta, Where are you from? You are obviously not an American.
Yes, I am a proud American.
God bless America!
He is,by his own admission, a latvian, who emigrated to US. I am not sure if he is a neo-nazi or actual one.
A word of caution to you and your ilk. You keep that vulgar bullying up against Christians and its side effects won’t be pleasant to all of you. What you do is counterproductive, and I sincerely hope the level headed among you bring you back to your senses, for everyone’s benefit.
The fight for Iwo Jima in 1945 was one of the bloodiest of World War II. A tiny island in the Pacific dominated by a volcanic mountain and pockmarked with caves, Iwo Jima was the setting for a five-week, non-stop battle between 70,000 American Marines and an unknown number of deeply entrenched Japanese defenders. The courage and gallantry of the American forces, climaxed by the dramatic raising of the American flag over Mt. Suribachi, is memorialized in the Marine Corps monument in Washington, DC. Less remembered, however, is that the battle occasioned an eloquent eulogy by a Marine Corps rabbi that has become an American classic.
Rabbi Roland B. Gittelsohn (1910-1995), assigned to the Fifth Marine Division, was the first Jewish chaplain the Marine Corps ever appointed. The American invading force at Iwo Jima included approximately 1,500 Jewish Marines. Rabbi Gittelsohn was in the thick of the fray, ministering to Marines of all faiths in the combat zone. He shared the fear, horror and despair of the fighting men, each of whom knew that each day might be his last. Roland Gittelsohn’s tireless efforts to comfort the wounded and encourage the fearful won him three service ribbons.
When the fighting was over, Division Chaplain Warren Cuthriell, a Protestant minister, asked Rabbi Gittelsohn to deliver the memorial sermon at a combined religious service dedicating the Marine Cemetery. Cuthriell wanted all the fallen Marines – black and white, Protestant, Catholic and Jewish – honored in a single, nondenominational ceremony. Unfortunately, racial and religious prejudice was strong in the Marine Corps, as it was then throughout America. According to Rabbi Gittelsohn, the majority of Christian chaplains objected to having a rabbi preach over predominantly Christian graves. The Catholic chaplains, in keeping with church doctrine, opposed any form of joint religious service.
To his credit, Cuthriell refused to alter his plans. Gittelsohn, on the other hand, wanted to save his friend Cuthriell further embarrassment and so decided it was best not to deliver his sermon. Instead, three separate religious services were held. At the Jewish service, to a congregation of 70 or so who attended, Rabbi Gittelsohn delivered the powerful eulogy he originally wrote for the combined service:
Here lie men who loved America because their ancestors generations ago helped in her founding, and other men who loved her with equal passion because they themselves or their own fathers escaped from oppression to her blessed shores. Here lie officers and men, Negroes and whites, rich men and poor . . . together. Here are Protestants, Catholics and Jews together. Here no man prefers another because of his faith or despises him because of his color. Here there are no quotas of how many from each group are admitted or allowed. Among these men, there is no discrimination. No prejudices. No hatred. Theirs is the highest and purest democracy …
Whosoever of us lifts his hand in hate against a brother, or who thinks himself superior to those who happen to be in the minority, makes of this ceremony and the bloody sacrifice it commemorates, an empty, hollow mockery. To this, then, as our solemn duty, sacred duty do we the living now dedicate ourselves: to the right of Protestants, Catholics, and Jews, of white men and Negroes alike, to enjoy the democracy for which all of them have here paid the price …
We here solemnly swear that this shall not be in vain. Out of this and from the suffering and sorrow of those who mourn this will come, we promise, the birth of a new freedom for the sons of men everywhere.
Among Gittelsohn’s listeners were three Protestant chaplains so incensed by the prejudice voiced by their colleagues that they boycotted their own service to attend Gittelsohn’s. One of them borrowed the manuscript and, unknown to Gittelsohn, circulated several thousand copies to his regiment. Some Marines enclosed the copies in letters to their families. An avalanche of coverage resulted. Time magazine published excerpts, which wire services spread even further. The entire sermon was inserted into the Congressional Record, the Army released the eulogy for short-wave broadcast to American troops throughout the world and radio commentator Robert St. John read it on his program and on many succeeding Memorial Days.
In 1995, in his last major public appearance before his death, Gittelsohn re-read a portion of the eulogy at the fiftieth commemoration ceremony at the Iwo Jima statue in Washington, D.C. In his autobiography, Gittelsohn reflected, “I have often wondered whether anyone would ever have heard of my Iwo Jima sermon had it not been for the bigoted attempt to ban it.”
Thanks for sharing this moving story. It has already pointed out here on this thread, by non-Jews, that Jews have made many positive contributions to America and the West.
What is being contested, to the extent I’m able to sum up, is the need by Jews to acknowledge that negative things have been committed by Jews too, and to dis-associate themselves from them explicitly.
briuta,
You know nothing personal about my ancestors. Do not speak as if you do.
And it matters not what you say; everyone’s ancestors and all people are less than squeaky clean.
Get over it. You are not perfect and no one in your line ever has been. And it is a good thing to admit to this fact because if people do not admit or owe up to their OWN less than perfect status; things do not go well for them.
And no one cares how long someone spends in denial; they never let up until you face humility. Fools can spend centuries.
,,everyone’s ancestors and all people are less than squeaky clean.”
________________________________________
Squeaky clean? As opposed to what? Opposed to all covered in blood?
Get over it, you say? Why don’t you get over the Holocaust, if that would be a proper thing to do?
Assuming everything you say is true (a stretch because antisemites are always liars) how many of the above claimed to be acting on behalf of Jews? And how “prosemitic” did the Russian Commies turn out to be (Doctor’s plot, severe persecution of Soviet Jews by the ’70s)? Oh I’m sure you’ll have an answer, don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story.
,,Assuming everything you say is true (a stretch because antisemites are always liars) how many of the above claimed to be acting on behalf of Jews? And how “prosemitic” did the Russian Commies turn out to be (Doctor’s plot, severe persecution of Soviet Jews by the ’70s)? Oh I’m sure you’ll have an answer, don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story.”
___________________________
Assuming? Assuming the testimony of the countless victims as being liars? So there was no Holocaust either, was there? The antisemites are liars, but the murderous J-ws are the truth tellers, isnt that the lovely picture you have been painting for ever! Look what they did to the Russian Army officers in Odessa, Simforopole in 1920-22, all of Crimea, heartless bandits!
Doctors plot my a-sss, of course the Bolshevik revolution ate the most faithful of its children- karma was a b-ch then as it is now.
~~Russian Commies~~~ you are a laughable joke indeed!
Jews were and still are among the biggest promoters of mass immigration into Europe, including muslim immigration. So how you can *solely* blame Europeans for the consequences of muslim immigration is quite mad.
briuta,
Yes, of course all covered in blood. Did you think otherwise? It would be hard to find a patch of earth that has not been soaked in blood.
Be it at a personal level, tribal, village, city, country or global. The land is most certainly soaked in blood. The land we stand on, get it?
And if it wasn’t you or I; then problably the guy next to you, or the ones who came before you and probably the ones who will come after you.
You don’t have to be black to know the world is not fair and you don’t have to be Jewish to know about grief. I am neither, but know both.
Certainly the holocaust is a tradgey. Who could deny that?
But know this: there is Justice. I keep that in mind in all of my doings and in all of my words. People will usually get what they ask for.
Order! Order Please,
Let’s treat our discussion with more factuality and less generalization: my message targets both parties warring on this issue.
My starting point is the “Yevsektsiya” and the explanation comes from the Wiki.
Yevsektsiya was the Jewish section of the Soviet Communist party. Yevsektsiya was established to popularize Marxism and encourage loyalty to the Soviet regime among Russian Jews.
Yevsektsiya members were people of Jewish origin, but they were hostile to traditional Jewish culture and instead sought to assimilate Jews into the new Soviet society. In line with official Soviet doctrine, Yevsektsiya was deeply opposed to Zionism, labeling them forms of “bourgeois nationalism”.
We ought to differentiate between the anti-Israeli Bolshevik Jews the Obamao supporters and the Nationalist, (Zionist) anti-Communist Jews.
The Communist Jews deported the Zionist to an artificial “Jewish Homeland” – called Birobidjan – in Eastern Siberia.
Zionists are the Israelis and the “Internationalists” are the Bolsheviks who run the US. One is our friend the other is our enemy; – don’t conflate the two.
Order? What order? The vulgar insults by some Jews here must be curtailed, and they should be called to order (for example, the likes of Rosen).
You point out one difference among Jews – well with them there’re far more than just one, and each has many nuances. So much so, that one can no longer classify Jews into neatly defined categories. Like everything Middle Eastern, semitic, Judaic, arabic, islamist – they all share in obscure ever changing, each bitterly and to the very end hating all other classifications of people. Ideological, ethnic, political, religious, regional, cultist disaggregation of Judaism into a set of analyzable entities is totally futile. So much so, that many non semitic (arab, jewish) Westerners just have simply given up on them.
European~ it is indeed a narrow view. We know all of that, and more. We know there have been and still are Jews who have not lost their love of God and faith, but something has gone very wrong with the Jewry. And it isn’t hard to figure out the difference between the commie/ Bolshevik J-s and the Jews of faith. Still, it does not help the matters one bit. If not for the sakes of Israel, I would have given up on J-s entirely.
The European,
Thanks for the information. I did not know that. But I am trying to point out that Jews do not have the cornor on the market of evil.
Everytime someone does not like something, we get a list of Jewish offensives as if there were no other offense being done in the world. They always get singled out and all others ignored.
But the bloody earth tells a different story. We all have had a hand in our own errors. Time to quit picking on Jews.
Absolutely, they don’t have a monopoly on evil – but they disproportionally share in it.
They have had simply too much of an influence in World affairs, and to a very large extent it has been negative, the Soviet Union, marxism, and the current day US economic/social mess are simply examples, bright examples of them having failed humanity.
The problem with Europe is that while Germany have passed the denazification,the other countries like Italy,Slovakia,Austria and all others allys did not pass it and Austria has been recognized as the nazies`victim! Though the nazi` ideas where wide spread in pre-war Europe.Nazies where national socialists, their antisemitism had (and have today)the socialist lining.
The Jew-hate is the unifying factor of right and left extremists.But today`s European liberals appear in their company.
,,Nazies where national socialists, their antisemitism had (and have today)the socialist lining.”
So- nazie socialists hated the J-s, but the commie J-es hated the Christians- tell me the difference
,,Germany have passed the denazification,”- did the J-s pass
the de-comunisation? Never! Still going on in full speed in USA!
Wow, I’ve never seen such anti-Semetic posting on PJM before. To biruta, Russia had a long history of Jewish massacres before there was a Bolshevik Jewish presence. You can go back to the massacres of the Jews by Chemelsky as a start. Pre WWI the good innocent Czar Nickolas, in the 1890′s, allowed the forced dislocation of the Jews from the Jewish belt. This caused a string of pogroms in which thousands of Jews were killed, raped and dispossessed of their property. You mention post WWII Poland where the pogroms continued unabated after WWII. My wife’s family left Poland after a handgrenade was tossed into their home after WWII. If you are looking for Jews to fault, you can find them everywhere. We are all over the place. However, what you are is a pure poison pill of unabashed anti-Semetism. You would have made a good gas chamber operator. Now let me quote you something, he who curses my people will be cursed. And, so it has been and so it will be. You are the slime of a viper’s poison.
Andy Gump:
,,Wow, I’ve never seen such anti-Semetic posting on PJM before. To biruta, Russia had a long history of Jewish massacres before there was a Bolshevik Jewish presence. You can go back to the massacres of the Jews by Chemelsky as a start. Pre WWI the good innocent Czar Nickolas, in the 1890′s, allowed the forced dislocation of the Jews from the Jewish belt. This caused a string of pogroms in which thousands of Jews were killed, raped and dispossessed of their property. You mention post WWII Poland where the pogroms continued unabated after WWII. My wife’s family left Poland after a handgrenade was tossed into their home after WWII. If you are looking for Jews to fault, you can find them everywhere. We are all over the place. However, what you are is a pure poison pill of unabashed anti-Semetism. You would have made a good gas chamber operator. Now let me quote you something, he who curses my people will be cursed. And, so it has been and so it will be. You are the slime of a viper’s poison.”
________________________________________
How interesting- why didn’t you notice the posts of the Norway and Christian bashing? Someone even suggested that Norwegians ought to be sent to the re- education camps! But it’s alright, isn’t it? As soon as one isn’t kissing your J-sh a-sss, they become totally unacceptable anti- Semites?
It is amazing to me, that you still are holding a view, that lies have any worth at all. You could lie and lie for ever, and that would make it truth? Really, typical J-sh wisdom. How many J-s died in the ,,massacres and pogroms” ? 100- 2000 ? And Czar Nicolas II was your enemy? If he were such, Lenin and other Bolsheviks had been rotting in jails never seeing a day light again, but they were free to study, to travel and all that,- rights which J-s denied to every citizen of Russia. And what business did you have in murdering a God’s anointed Czar of another nation, murdering his innocent children and an honorable Christian woman- Czarina Alexandra? Was it revenge for your misfortunes? ,,unabashed anti-Semitism” right- NOT! Define the anti- Semitism to me, please! ,,You would have made a good gas chamber operator.”- you have enough chamber operators of your own people, no need for me. They operated very well in the Gulag system. Just that there are no holocaust ”museums” , and no reparations in billions paid to those Christian victims of your cruelty and viciousness.
,,viper’s poison” – surely, you know what you are talking about. You have been using it for thousands of years- it is coming from Lucifer.
I was joking about the re-education camps. I find it at once amusing and deplorable how easily one can single out a few incidents and then demonize 5 million people and that’s okay but if you apply the exact same scrutiny to Israel then you are a racist bigot.
Of course the people doing it always say that the facts make the distinction but to me it’s just hatred and bigotry.
I am dismayed because we are all human but we don’t all act like it. We should be finding ways to like each other but many people have no interest in exploring such avenues. Instead they prefer to make lists that show how much worse or better people are by blood. It’s really sickening and so is this article.
You are always going to see problems when you look at the world through a very narrow lens by which you define yourself and the world. Take something as innocuous as a major league baseball player who lives, eats and sleeps baseball all year long. A major league baseball player doesn’t have a balanced view of the world but a rather peculiar one.
This is not important because people know this and it’s just baseball. But when you apply this to an arena where people are unaware of this distinction because they are living a cultural life style they think of as having no particularly peculiar views then projecting onto the world the specific obsessions of that culture and life style are a big, big problem.
Projecting onto others normal human traits we all have is one thing, but making ethnic lists of Nobel winners or criminals and then saying people are superior or not superior smacks of Nazi notions of superiority.
James May- so you were joking?
I am afraid, that your moral relativism is out of place here. It might sound as an expression of humanism what you have been preaching here- to you, but your ignorance on the subject matter is no helpful at all.
One thing I could agree with you though, the article above is simply awful.
#57 waterwillows
#58 Ben
I am going to present two individuals of Jewish ethnicity.
Both immigrated from the same country and from the same city: Budapest, Hungary.
One contributed immensely to the wealth of America, he was a friend of Pres. Reagan, while the other created no wealth but destroyed it and working on the destruction of the US.
One was Edward Teller, H-bomb scientist, Manhattan Project.
The other is the Marxist Soros (Schwartz) who created nothing but misery worldwide and Obama-Soetero.
Teller, Leo Szilard (Manhattan P.) and the Jewish scientific establishment are of very low profile individuals, devoted to their profession.
Did you know that John von Neumann -Budapest, Hungary -was one of the founders of the computer science? (Google)
However…
Whom you see and hear 24/7 in the media?
The Marxist political Jewish establishment promoting their newest pet project like PolCorr. (ACLU), open border advocacy, “Multikultism” (sic)
you can see Obama tawdry coterie making war on a cross in the remote California Desert…for the Southern Poverty L. Center everybody is fascist, racist and bigot…
Do you understand now?
Nobody hates Teller or Andy Grove of Intel (Grove was born to a middle-class Jewish family in Budapest, Hungary – Wiki) but most people get pissed off when Andy Stern of SEIU or the Hollywood Reds open their mouth.
We Jews have the heritage of the Amalek. The Amalekites were a tribe formed from the line of Ishmuale and Aesore. They were born and bred to be Jew haters. Moses orders them destroyed but fails to completely wipe them out. “Kill even their sheep, keep nothing of their’s.” The next run in with them is when king Saul, after defeating them in battle, has mercy on the Amalekite King and his daughter. This was the reason that Saul was rejected as the Jewish king in favor of David. The Amalekite lineage spauned Haman in Persia who wanted to kill all the Jews in the realm. By not obeying G-d, the Amalekites were to be forever a needle in our eye. Those that exist today that have an unexplained hate for Jews are said to have Amalekite blood in their veins.
To lmg29 and biruta we know your lineage, we also know your fate.
Andy, They are sad little people with sad little lives. They look for a bogeyman to blame their failures upon. Their hatred of Jews makes them fee like men when everything else in their lives proves them to be lesser than normal. They sit at their computers , typing with one hand and every time the word Jew arises, they become aroused. Something missing from their lives of solitude and boozy breath . Little pig- faced scribblers who dream of living as kings in a mediocre world devoid of their betters. Let them rant at their betters. With each intellectual fart they shout. ” I am Shakespeare “. ” I am Tolstoy “. Rest assured that neither has library card.
The gutless wonders who would crap their pants should they ever come face to face me.
Menachem Ben Yakov~
yes, yes, comfort yourself with that nonsense. What else is there left for you to munch on? Nothing else just repetition of your routine lines of lies and insults.
About the crap in the pants, we’ve seen how that happens.
Our ‘betters’? Who exactly are our ‘betters’ and why? Let’s hear it.
That’s what the Jews think: they’re better and smarter than anyone else. They think that they’re truly Yahueh’s ‘chosen’ people and superior to the rest of us.
Sounds to me like a flip side to the crazy notions of a Jewish conspiracy that controls finances, gov’t, media, etc.
Only in this positive conspiracy, superior beings walk among us, catching the lion’s share of Nobel’s as evidence of it, working tirelessly in small numbers which have provided the crucial cornerstones of achievement in art and science without which we second class people wouldn’t have what it is we have. It reminds me of Obama’s argument that Islam was the true cornerstone of civilization or Afro-centrist’s who claim Europe stole ideas from a black Egypt.
What a burden it must be to be so lonely and so few in a world of apes.
I reject both conspiracies as the notions of retarded racists and I say again, what a shock it must be to have such notions and then have American gum chewing yahoos in cultural and intellectual short pants coming all the way to Europe to open up concentration camps. To some, this must be like having monkeys open your cage.
Yeah, your welcome.
You may not have noticed this but Americans are the best friends Israel has on this planet. Too bad we don’t measure up to your rather high expectations but if you look around we’ll have to do til someone more fully human comes along.
Everybody can make their own individual lists of inventions and then I’ll make another listing the workshops the inventions were made in and we’ll see what can be accomplished in a vacuum.
Here’s a clue: skin color, race and ethnicity bestow nothing and take nothing away. My legacy is a human one and I take credit for all of it; the pyramids, Gothic cathedrals and Mayan temples – all of it – jazz, klezmer and fado – all of it.
It doesn’t take much to be better than you Jimmy.
It’s true I am a one-man underclass but I meant besides that.
,,To lmg29 and biruta we know your lineage, we also know your fate.”
______________________________________________
Christ is my Savior , and He knows your fate.
You idiot. Your Christ was a Jew, he died as a Jew, was buried as a Jew. His last words were a prayer to his Jewish G-d. All early Christians had to be Jewish to be a Christian. It was Paul of Tarsus who changed it all. He threw out the torah, circumcision, and the dietary laws. He also threw out the concept of one G-d, adopted the Greek trinity, and substituted the name Jesus for G-d. After that the Greeks rewrote history, rewrote the bible and made the Jews the sacrificial goat. I would love to see you meet your Jesus and find the Jewish Jesus. If you want to see Lucifer’s face, look in the mirror.
Yes, Andy- you Genius- what a revelation- Christ was a Jew!!!
Who knew? Now, since you have educated me so well, I must tell that to all others, what I’ve just heard. Everyone will be quite surprised, perhaps they will ask for more wisdom which like a fountain has been coming out of the bottomless snake pit, which is your soul.
Worry about your own soul not mine.
This type of rhetoric will not take you far with Christians, Grumpy. Stop offending Christ and the Christian God to us. Jews live on Christian lands with their tolerance. Words like these aren’t very helpful to your cause. Isreal exists because Christians support it. Don’t stretch your luck too much. There’s a fine line between being a welcome guest and one who has overstayed their welcome. Don’t seek trouble. Just some advice, as many in this thread (friendly to the Jews) have volunteered in good faith.
Paul
Sorry you took it that way. It wasn’t intended to offend you. As for biruta, its another story. I’ve endured enough of this type of anti-Semetism in my life and when I see it I react viscerolly. It has to be met and addressed for what it is. Nothing will ever change that type of person.
On the other hand, what I said about Christ is true. If its offensive to you, you might ask yourself why and investigate it. We have lived at the mercy of the Christian world for two thousand years. If you investigate that history, you’ll find out that there was little mercy toward us. We were expelled from England, from France twice, from Spain or forced to convert, force to convert in Portugal. Massacred during the Crusades by Crusaders in Germany and in the Holy Land. Faced countless pogroms in Eastern Europe, and the Chemelsky massacre. And still, I haven’t approached the Holacast.
Personally I’ve been called Jewboy, kike, Christ killer by Christians. At this point in my life, I would rather shoot my offenders than put up with this garbage.
,,Personally I’ve been called Jewboy, kike, Christ killer by Christians. At this point in my life, I would rather shoot my offenders”
_______________________________
Oh- what an immeasurable suffering, what a horrible offence- calling a
J-sh boy a Jew boy! Yes, dear, go ahead and get revenge on your enemies! Don’t put up with these unspeakable offenses.
Do you have to believe in hell before you can go to it or is it an actual place like maybe in the Crab Nebula?
Which one of these were the last words?
1. Father forgive them, for they know not what they do (Luke 23:34).
2. Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise (Luke 23:43).
3. Woman, behold your son: behold your mother (John 19:26-27).
4. My God, My God, why have you forsaken me, (Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34).
5. I thirst (John 19:28).
6. It is finished (John 19:30).
7. Father, into your hands I commit my spirit (Luke 23:46).
You seem to know a lot about Jews. I’ve seen a lot on TV and they seem to be like anyone else. Are they actually shape shifting alien overlords or what’s the deal?
Funny think about the Andy boy: he feels entitled of dashing out insults, calling names and labeling anyone who dares saying a word against J-s. More accurately, not saying anything against J-s, just stating the simple facts of history. At that point, everything becomes a garbage to him. And he is sooo offended, and he is so righteous in his anger, even before anybody had sent a slightest insult personally to him, or his God, religion or nation. But still> he is a victim again, in a need of retaliation! Perhaps even compensation? Isn’t that a pure Genius? Absolutely genius!
Bravo, Andy boy, or whatever your name is!
James May,
Don’t you be bothering to take credit for all of the human race. Be content with any credit you yourself have. The spirtual powers that be can have a different sense of ‘gifting’ you with just what portion of credit you will get. It might not be the kind of portion you want.
Naturally there are betters among us. Thank heaven for that because there are plenty of things I would rightly want no part of.
And it is not bragging or lack of humility to align oneself with the betters as a part of it. It is merely facing the facts.
And the facts in this world do include the barbaric, the cruel and the base. Better to be on the side of better any day.
This PC garbage about all things being revelvant is nothing more than lies to deceive and drag you into their cesspool.
It is a great gift to be one of the betters. Be thankful for it.
This is ugliest hatefest I have ever witnessed on PJM. BiRuta you and Img 29 are the instigators. Get the hell out of here. Crawl back into your holes. YOur creeepy mentalities have been given way too much air time here. Biruta you are accusing Andy of dishing out insults, you have got to be kidding. You have been a vile presence on this blog.Disappear please.
reggie, and who are you, if you don’t mind me asking?
A new sheriff in town?
And were is that hole of yours you were coming from?
,,Disappear please”<<<<- feel free of doing so! On your way out-
advise that grumpy hampy to tell elsewhere his mythological stories. I know, his parents didn't encourage him to learn much of history, just the repetition of the victim- mythology, but still- it's about time to grow up and face the truth!
Birutta I have an assignment for you since you refuse to crawl back into your hole. Get busy making another list of murderets and perps who were not of Jewish ancestry. Make sure the list includes all others and dont just pick on Christians. That should keep you busy until you suck your last breath. Oh and just because Lillian Hellman was a commie, who made lots of money, does not mean she belongs on your list of Jewish luminaries. Can you work on a list of Jews prior to the Bolsheviks era or even post communist era. I am curious what you will find. Be careful who you put on it. Having a Jewish name is not enough to qualify. Yes I am the new sherriff in town. Now hop to.
“Kosher, and its inbred cousin Halal, should be banned in every civilised country.”
O.k., that takes care of civilized countries.
What about European countries?
Every discussion of this sort has the potential to descend into superior versus inferior people and equally ludicrous exchanges.
I prefer sane versus insane, and Israel beats out her neighbors (in particular her immediate neighbors) for sanity on all counts.
Instigators and the agitators have organized another flotilla action to get in Israel’s face. Billy Ayers and the wacky wife Bernardine are involved (again), but certainly not courageous enough to put their own bodies on that ship.
But then putting their money or their own lives where their mouths were was never their strong suit, even in the 70′s.
Dave Surls,
“What about European countries?”
Well, I would say this is their time to choose whether they will follow Islam or return and follow the Almighty.
There is a world of difference between kosher and halal. One might seem right but the end leads to death.
We shall see what they will choose to do.
I have read the article and all comments thus far and a counter-intuitive thought crossed my mind. Believe it or not they all seem to be quite cathartic and may serve a good purpose. It’s a release of inner fears and desires that all these sentiments and thoughts are out in the open and are discussed without the facade of political correctness, no matter at times their obvious lack of civility. It’s good for all parties involved to air out grievances – people do that all the time with shrinks, and no matter the monetary cost, it’s good for their psychological wellbeing.
May I add my spin on the whole debate here? Playing victim isn’t a winning strategy. Jews can always point to instances when/where they were victimized, but so can Christians in fact, the Greek Orthodox Byzantine Empire is an example. Ultimately, such posturing doesn’t advance the debate, not here not any debate no matter where it takes place. Answering specific charges though, it will.
If I were to summarize the debate, at least on the non Jewish side here, I would say that the Jews hold inheritance to the liberal or progressive or marxist or communist, however one wishes to call it, legacy left over on human societies by Jews and the heavy burden and dire consequences this holds for Western Civilization. I wish to know more in detail as to how the Jewish side specifically repudiates this charge. A second point of contention here is the creation and survival of the State of Israel. I would have liked to have more specific discussions, and a more clear statement from the non Jewish side, on this issue. Do they want the State of Israel to exist or not at the end?
I place myself among those Westerners, in America to be exact, who pride themselves in being mild mannered, cool and detached as possible from the emotional issues surrounding any discussion. Within such a framework, I would welcome any reaction to the two implicit claims made in this blog that first, the Jews must admit ownership and in fact denounce this liberal-communist legacy; and second, that the State of Israel must be defended by the West, as its existence serves their own self-interest, at least.
You put forth this invitation:
“I would welcome any reaction to the two implicit claims made in this blog that first, the Jews must admit ownership and in fact denounce this liberal-communist legacy;”
Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the noted author on Communism wrote a monumental work titled “Two Hundred Years Together” – a historical account of the Jewish life in Russia from the earliest time onward.
In the subsequent chapters he deals with the Jewish individuals’ role in the Bolshevik revolution of 1905-1917.
The book is published in French: “Deux Siecles Ensemble” and in German: Zweihundert Jahre zusammen” along with the Russian edition.
There is no English language translation in existence
I read it in French.
In the US any reference – however mild it might be – to the Jewish role in spawning Marxism is strictly prohibited.
Hence the answer to your question: they deny it or they start spinning and changing subject.
I recommend a superbly done 3 hour movie by a Hungarian director with Western cast titled “Sunshine”. An epic saga of 3 generation Jewish family in the Austro-Hungarian territory from 1889 through WWI, WWII, Holocaust, Communism until present days.
With Ralph Fiennes as protagonist.
Its available on DVD from Netflix
Thank you for your response and suggestions, I’ll look into them.
But your statement:
“In the US any reference – however mild it might be – to the Jewish role in spawning Marxism is strictly prohibited.”
simply isn’t true. Just look at this US-based blog.
I appeal to you intelligence to comprehend the difference between an obscure private blog and the mainstream public sphere like the publishing business.
On a private blog you may – depending on censorship – or may not write whatever you want but the same is not permitted in the mainstream media.
I am surprised that you did not come to the same conclusion on your own.
Do you live in the US? Don’t you know that violation of the PolCorr. rules entails retribution?
Negative labeling of the J-people by “Whities” is cardinal sin from which only Black Muslims are absolved like Farrakhan.
You don’t seem to know the US very well; PC is far more pronounced in the EU, btw. As for the US mainstream media and publishing Houses, this is a big subject and too far off topic for here to address.
true->>>that, very true!
even the BigHollywood or any other of the Breibarts Big blogs would not permit this to be posted.
Andrew Breibart [ a J-sh guy) claims to be a conservative, but still it is a big question ???? if he really is one?
Any question about the Jews is out and off limits- always- on the Big blogs.
birooter,
I stopped being a victim a long time ago. That was the day I decided to face up to a**holes like you. I know you wouldn’t say anything like you have to my face. You need this blog to hide behind like some little girl. Here is what I surmise about you: You are Eastern European…..Ukrainian, Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Don Cossack or Pole. Your family was one of those that joined the Nazi and help them do the unspeakable: Einsatzcommandos, camp guards or actively fighting for the Germans. While Communists were in power you had to keep a low profile. Since the Communists are not in power any more, you can now vent your venom. Where ever you are, when you see a Jew, he seems more successful than you and that sticks in your craw. To you all Jews are still the Bolsheviks who probably did some horrible thing to your family. By the way, not all Bolsheviks were Jews. Why don’t you mention them? I’m sure some of them were from your region and maybe your relatives. You suffer from some really great inferiority complex ;therefore, your answer is “them Jews”. Go ahead and blame us, its not going to make your life any better. I think I’ve covered most of the points that I surmize. Yes there’s one more thing, our women are more beautiful than yours, if you have one.
I think Andy is right in pointing out the lack of ‘owning the responsiblility’ on others besides Jews. Yes, Jews had a part of the marxist movement but they also played a major part in the forming of America’s freedom.
Jews are individual people, just like everyone else. Some of the Jews will choose one thing, while others will not. This is normal behaviour for any people, country, race or culture. It is not a call to hate the fact that they do not behave like zombies and ALL do exactly the same thing. That is an unreasonable arguement.
Back to Birutta’s list of very bad Jews and the justification of all past and present and future persecution of Jews throughout world. I do have a life and limited time, but decided to look at just one name on his list, Nikolai Bukharin. Not a particularly bad guy though Birutta put him on the murderers list with polit bureau members, central committee members, ambasadors of Soviet Union, foreign ministers. Nikolai was very excited about the New York Public library as am I. He disagreed with Lenin and then eventually was tortured and executed under Stalin. He started to believe in a bit of capitalism here and there. He worried that the peasant farmers would not prosper with a strictly communist system. If this is just one example of Biruta’s list ,so beware of Biruta as a minister of anti Jewish propaganda.
“I would say that the Jews hold inheritance to the liberal or progressive or marxist or communist, however one wishes to call it, legacy…”
You mean Jews are responsible for what nice Christian boys like Vlad Lenin or Joe Stalin did???
How do you figure?
Why don’t you just take ownership of and then denounce the work by Karl Mordechai (aka Marx), Rosalia Luxemburg, Lev Davidovich Bronshtein (aka Leo Trotsky) and others? This would move your cause considerably, instead of passing the buck by accusing Christians (!) for the communist atrocities? Lenin (one with some Jewish blood in him, as pointed out here on this thread by a number of posters and is well documented) and Stalin were NOT Christians – Mordechaism had them converted to atheism long before their participation in the communist atrocities of the former Soviet Union.
What about the role of the Jewish handlers of the fraud in the WH? Why don’t you disavow those?
Once you do that, then you can turn around and ask others to also acknowledge their share in evil, You’ll have more credibility by doing so.
As it was pointed out earlier, no one single group has a monopoly on atrocities. The case of islam comes immediately to mind.
Gee, Lenin had some Jewish blood in him, that makes him a Jew. Great logic! Here’s a better one Karl Marx was a Jew………………? His father was a convert to Christianity and raised his son as such…………is he still a Jew?
Is a Christian who converts to Islam still a Christian? NO! Why then are we held to a different standard? A Jew who converts to Christianity is still considered a Jew. A Jew who becomes an atheist is still a Jew. Marxism disavowed religion……..yet every Jew who took on this new “religion”, was still a Jew. That rings loudly familiar with what the Nazis considered to be a Jew and that was anyone who was one eighth Jewish by blood line, not by religion. You want us to disavow something we never accepted. You’re a real pig!
Hello,
I desperately trying not to get into argument with you all I want is to demonstrate the “double-thinking” in your narrative.
“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”
You said Marx converted to Christianity (or whatever) hence he stopped to be Jewish. But if his (or anybody’s) mother was Jewish then her offspring also considered to be Jewish.
Is Jewishness an ethnicity or just mere a religion?
If a Chinese converts to Judaism he will be Jewish overnight- even with two Taoist parents?
An atheist Jew like Soros can he assign new ethnicity to himself by himself?
Can anybody just walk away from inherited mental, physical, sensual, cultural etc. characteristics and traits of his/her “tribe”?
And assume something new he/she never was?
Can I consider myself a Black Man from tomorrow because I got pissed off at my white people?
Why not?
Are There Any Jewish Mitochondrial DNA Markers?
You are now walking on slippery roads. For you everything is that simple: bad Jews are “no-Jews” and who contradict it is a bastard.
“Why don’t you just take ownership of and then denounce the work by Karl Mordechai (aka Marx), Rosalia Luxemburg, Lev Davidovich Bronshtein (aka Leo Trotsky) and others?”
Why should I? I’m not responsible for what they did.
Besides, if I “took ownership” of Das Kapital, people would accuse me of plagiarism…and rightly so.
I’m also not “taking ownership” for what Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Francisco Franco, Stalin, Lenin, Tito, Mao, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro or Natalie Portman (I just threw her in there, ’cause she’s so cute) said or did either.
“Lenin (one with some Jewish blood in him, as pointed out here on this thread by a number of posters and is well documented) and Stalin were NOT Christians – Mordechaism had them converted to atheism long before their participation in the communist atrocities of the former Soviet Union.”
Well, how convenient. If you’re born a Jew (by your definition), then you’re always a Jew (even if you attend the Lutheran Church, like Karl Marx did in his younger days), but if you just act a certain way, then you automatically aren’t a Christian any more, even if you attended the Orthodox Seminary (as Joseph Stalin did in his younger days), and “blood” doesn’t count.
That sounds to me like how the Nazis figured it. The old taint of Jewish “blood” routine.
Too funny.
I don’t have the temerity to contest anybody educational level but any intelligent discussion predicates on a certain degree of scholarly knowledge of the subject dissected.
Please forgive me if I question your erudition concerning the History of Marxism, its origin and its practitioners, The Second International (1889–1916), the Spartacist Movement with Rosa Luxemburg….etc.
A vast amount of literature available on this subject out there:- have you ever heard of Leon Trotsky (a.k.a. Bronstein)?
How about Saul Alinsky or Emma Goldman?
Never give up learning!
,,You mean Jews are responsible for what nice Christian boys like Vlad Lenin or Joe Stalin did???”
____________________________
Indeed, hilarious! Just 2 of them bandits did it all, oh~ that’s right!!! The Uljanov family didn’t have a one bit of Christianity in them, terrorists almost all of them, >>> Vladimir’s brother a terrorist and murderer, who was later executed.
As for Joseph Stalin, whose mother indeed was a Christian,( and Joseph called her ,,the whore”) he himself was a criminal and a bandit/ bank robber from the start- you mean those>>> ,,nice” [Christian boys]?
,,Ultimately, such posturing doesn’t advance the debate, not here not any debate no matter where it takes place. Answering specific charges though, it will.
If I were to summarize the debate, at least on the non Jewish side here, I would say that the Jews hold inheritance to the liberal or progressive or marxist or communist, however one wishes to call it, legacy left over on human societies by Jews and the heavy burden and dire consequences this holds for Western Civilization. I wish to know more in detail as to how the Jewish side specifically repudiates this charge. A second point of contention here is the creation and survival of the State of Israel. I would have liked to have more specific discussions, and a more clear statement from the non Jewish side, on this issue. Do they want the State of Israel to exist or not at the end?”
___________________________________________________________
Thank you for your most reasonable post.
In short answer to your question- Yes, I stand 100% and more for the State of Israel, as a powerful and independent State, and for its rights of self defense. Israel is one civilized and democratic Sate in that region. Every normal Christian understands that Israel has a special place and importance in the history of humankind.
As for the second: ,,I wish to know more in detail as to how the Jewish side specifically repudiates this charge.”
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Exactly and precisely!
Instead of attacking me, calling names, labeling, trying to intimidate me, then laughing at me, then proceeding to psychoanalyze me, then again trying to write a fantasy life story of me- just say what you have to say on the subject! It has nothing to do with me personally.
And there one could observe the typical communist tactics, which is so amazing as they themselves are completely oblivious of this fact.
The list I posted is well known to millions of people- they know the truth! The books had been written- just a small example- the British historian Simon Sebag Montefiore, a Jew himself has written a book :
Stalin: ,,The Court of the Red Tsar ” which is a rather mild book, but still, fully based on documents and factual events. Even that book would make your hair stand up, but still- there is no word as of : ,,we are so sorry this happened.” They would just say- NO, it didn’t happen, and you are the anti- Semite.
Just pathetic!
You are an anti-Semite. Why should I say sorry for something I didn’t do, wasn’t involved in, made my own family suffer. That long list which you like to wave, how many of them survived the Stalin purges? I’ll bet none of them made it past 1950. But, still they were Jews! Right? By what, by blood? Do you think that one of them ever went into a synagogue once he/she became a Marxist. Oh, yes Marx was a Jew………..not Karl but his grandfather was. His father was a Christian convert. Yes that still makes him a Jew. You’re also a pig. Let me cite you why. 95% of your DNA matches that of a pig, that makes you a pig. Right? The Nazis only needed you to be one eighth Jewish to be a Jew. That’s 12.5%. Since your DNA matches up to 95% of that of a pig, that makes you more of a pig than somebody who is just 12.5% matched as a Jew.
Please don’t patronize us by supporting Israel. We don’t want your or need your kind of support.
I have yet to find the blogging site that would put up the list of Jewish acomplishments and achievements. Which I can assure your are numerous and ongoing. But it is a common thing to always find the list of what ever would shed a bad light on the Jewish people. I have simply noticed this as some kind of usual or normal thing these days.
But I have learned something and it is important enough to pass it along. If one had two grams of common sense, one would make it their business to be on the side of what pleases the Lord. Now, what pleases the Lord may not always be to our understanding or liking. That is something one runs up against frequently.
But for myself, I made the commitment early on that I would persue what is was that would please the Lord, come what may. And I found out that what pleases the Lord the most, is His own decisions. So I wisely decided to make those decsions the same ones as my own. For quite a long time there was so much I did not understand. It ‘seemed’ unworkable but I was determined to persist and I did.
The reward is the getting of understanding His decisions. Once you have that it makes perfect sense.
So while you may not like or agree with what He has chosen, it is far wiser to accept His decisions over your own. The payoff is big-time.
Don’t waste your time trying to ‘re-structure’ His decisions. They are meant to stand permanently and nothing in the universe can reverse them.
The only thing we can actually change is ourselves. I suggest we do so.
waterwillows- what would please the Lord most likely
would be: that you stop posting, because you make no sense what so ever
in any of your posts,
sorry for telling you that.
Winston Churchill in 1920 wrote an article in the Illustrated Sunday Herald, in which he stated under the heading “International Jews”:
“…This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany) and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. …”
Your quotation from Churchill – the way you did is misleading and doesn’t convey correctly his full set of thought.
Taken out of the context it can be interpreted as antisemitism and then you are loosing the argument.
In that missive Churchill broke up the Jewish people to different and hostile to each other groups:
Zionism versus Bolshevism
A Struggle for the Soul of the Jewish People
By the Rt. Hon. Winston S. Churchill
You quoted the International Jews only but you omitted his praise for the Zionist:
“A Home for the Jews: Zionism offers the third sphere to the political conceptions of the Jewish race. In violent contrast to international communism.”
Yes, you are right, but it was not intentionally, pardon my mistake.
,,His father was a convert to Christianity and raised his son as such…………is he still a Jew?”’
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Oh, boy, you are delusional! The father of Karl converted to Christianity for the sakes of better business opportunities, and he raised little Karl as a Christian?!
,,Please don’t patronize us by supporting Israel. We don’t want your or need your kind of support.”
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You,little nasty grumpy boy, you are not the Israel!
As somebody already told you- without our Christian support, there would be no Israel, don’t you ever forget it!
You are still 95% pig! Let’s get this straight, I might not talk for Israel but you don’t speak for Christians either. My insults are still directed at you personally, nowhere else. You quoted Churchill, now let me quote a Jewish man on the way to the gas chamber, “Who the f**k is this goy?” To answer that man, I can’t tell who this goy is but I can for sure tell you that he is 95% pig.
,,You are still 95% pig! Let’s get this straight, I might not talk for Israel but you don’t speak for Christians either. My insults are still directed at you personally, nowhere else. You quoted Churchill, now let me quote a Jewish man on the way to the gas chamber, “Who the f**k is this goy?” To answer that man, I can’t tell who this goy is but I can for sure tell you that he is 95% pig.”
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LOL, the problem is- turns out- Churchill had a J-sh mother!
About me being a pig, or a tiger or an elephant is immaterial.
The question was about the J-sh communists- murderers and the murderous philosophy of those J-s, ruining countries and nations. That was the question.
And so are YOU moron. You also share the same DNA with a pig as any other human, including your semitic cousins, the muslims. Since you started calling people around here ‘pigs’ you granted anyone the right to call you something worse than a pig, you’re a vermin; how’s that rubbing you?
Oink, oink! I know you understand that.
And so are YOU moron. You also share the same DNA with a pig as any other human, including your semitic cousins, the muslims. Since you started calling people around here ‘pigs’ you granted anyone the right to call you something worse than a pig, you’re a vermin; how’s that rubbing you?
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indeed, this is what puzzles me- when I hear and read of Moslems calling Jews names, and cursing them as pigs and such, I am outraged and it bothers me to no end.
But here I am being called a pig by a J-sh guy, who just hates me, because I’ve asked inconvenient questions. It has been really a trial to stand for the Jews and Israel. It has become such a trial from the Lord, that I don’t know how that will end. Not good at all.
Israel Lazarevich Gelfand (best remembered by his pseudonym, Alexander Parvus, __________________________________________________________
was born of ethnic Jewish parents on September 8 1867 in the shtetl of Berazino, now part of Belarus. He was raised in Odessa (in today’s Ukraine), where he began associating with the Jewish revolutionary (The Bund) circles.
At age nineteen he left for Basel, where he continued his studies, becoming a doctor of economy in 1891 (his dissertation dealing with “work recovery”). By this time he openly became a Marxist. He moved to Germany, joined the Social Democratic Party and befriended German revolutionary Rosa Luxemburg. In 1900, he met Vladimir Lenin for the first time, in Munich, each admiring the other’s theoretical works. Parvus encouraged Lenin to begin publishing his revolutionary paper Iskra.
Parvus’ attempts to become a German citizen proved fruitless. He once commented in a letter to his German friend Wilhelm Liebknecht that “I am seeking a government where one can inexpensively acquire a fatherland.” Consequently for many years he attempted to immigrate to the United States. His socialist revolutionary compatriots were already busy establishing a network of mostly Jewish revolutionaries in the United States, including Leon Trotsky who briefly moved to New York City.
However, German counter-intelligence had penetrated part of the socialist revolutionary network and upon reading his writing in the socialist press during the Russo-Japanese War, found Parvus had predicted that Russia would lose the war, resulting in unrest and revolution. When this proved to be the case, Parvus’ prestige among his socialist and other German comrades increased. Thus, German intelligence soon estimated he would be useful in efforts against the Russian Empire.
During this time he developed the concept of using a foreign war to provoke an internal revolt within a country. It was at this time that Parvus revived, from Marx, the concept-strategy of “permanent revolution”. He communicated this philosophy to Trotsky who then further expanded and developed it. Through Trotsky, the method was eventually adopted by Lenin and the Bolsheviks in Lenin’s April Theses in 1917.
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Russian Revolution of 1905
In 1905, Parvus arrived in St. Petersburg with false Austro-Hungarian papers. Parvus was regarded among European Marxists of the day as an authority on political and financial questions; consequently when he authored a provocative article In December entitled The Financial Manifesto, which described the Russian economy as being on the verge of collapse it received broad play in the press.
In combination with this propaganda, Parvus coordinated an agitation of locals to feign a run on the banks. As the news of the article and the subsequent “rush” was spread, the consequent hysteria managed to upset the economy and enrage prime minister Sergei Witte, but did not cause a financial collapse.
In connection with this provocation and Parvus’ involvement in the organization of anti-government actions during the 1905 revolution, Parvus (together with other revolutionaries such as Leon Trotsky) was arrested by the Russian police. While in prison he became close with other revolutionaries, and was visited by Rosa Luxemburg. Sentenced to three years exile in Siberia, Parvus escaped and emigrated to Germany, where he published a book about his experiences called In the Russian Bastile during the Revolution.
The Maxim Gorky affair
While in Germany, Parvus struck a deal with Russian author Maxim Gorky to produce his play The Lower Depths. According to the agreement, the majority of the play’s proceeds were to go to the Russian Social Democratic Party (and approximately 25% to Gorky himself). Parvus’ failure to pay (despite the fact that the play had over 500 showings) caused him to be accused of stealing 130,000 German gold marks. Gorky threatened to sue, but Rosa Luxemburg convinced Gorky to keep the quarrel inside the party’s own court. Eventually, Parvus paid back Gorky, but his reputation in party circles was damaged.
Istanbul period
Soon afterwards Parvus moved to Istanbul in Turkey, where he lived for five years.[ There he set up an arms trading company which profited handsomely during the Balkan War. He became the financial and political advisor of the Young Turks. In 1912 he was made editor of Turk Yurdu, their daily newspaper. He worked closely with the triumvirs known as the Three Pashas - Enver, Talat and Cemal - and Finance Minister Djavid Bey. The triumvirs of Three Pashas planned and executed the Armenian Genocide in 1915. His firm dealt with the deliveries of foodstuffs for the Turkish army and he was a business partner of the Krupp concern, of Vickers Limited, and of the famous arms dealer Basil Zaharov.[7] Arms dealings with Vickers Limited at war time gave basis to the theory that Alexander Parvus was also a British intelligence asset.
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briuta,
I could say the same thing to you. I not only make a whole lot more sense, I have a lot more sense than you.
BTW, you are 100% wrong about it being the Christians who have kept Israel alive. The Christians are the ones, a good number of them, who have stood ‘with’ Israel.
There is a world of difference in standing with Jews and the keeping of Jews. At least I can say I know that.
oh, water- oh, the willows- LOL
Don’t know which one pours more over here- the water on the the willows?
or the willows on the water ?:)
Russian Revolution
While in Turkey, Parvus became close with German ambassador Baron Hans Freiherr von Wangenheim who was known to be partial to establishing revolutionary fifth columns among the allies. Consequently, Parvus offered his plan via Baron von Wangenheim to the German General Staff: the paralyzing of Russia via general strike, financed by the German government (which, at the time, was at war with Russia and its allies). Von Wagenheim sent Parvus to Berlin where the latter arrived on the 6 March 1915 and presented a 20 page plan titled A preparation of massive political strikes in Russia to the German government.
Parvus’ detailed plan recommended the division of Russia by sponsoring the Bolshevik faction of the Russian Social Democratic Labor Party, encouraging ethnic separatists in various Russian regions, and supporting various writers whose criticism of Tsarism continued during wartime. Basing himself on his 1905 experiences, Parvus theorised that the division of Russia and its loss in the First World War was the best way to bring about a socialist revolution.
Copenhagen operation
Some accuse Parvus of having funded Lenin while in Switzerland. A biography of Parvus by the authors Scharlau and Zeman have concluded that there was absolute cooperation between the two. It declared that
Austrian intelligence through Parvus gave money to Russian emigre newspapers in Paris. But when the sources of this funding became clear in the beginning of 1915 and more widely understood—Lenin and the emigres in Paris rejected such support. Harold Shukman has concluded, “Funds were plainly not flowing into Lenin’s hands” [10]
Parvus placed his bets on Lenin, as the latter was not only a radical but willing to accept the sponsorship of the Tsar’s wartime enemy, Germany. The two met in Bern in May 1915 and agreed to collaboration through their organizations, though Lenin remained very careful never to get associated with Parvus in public. There is no certain proof that they ever met face to face again, although there are indications that such a meeting may well have occurred on April 13, 1917 during Lenin’s stop-over in Stockholm.[11]
Parvus assiduously worked at keeping Lenin’s confidence, however Lenin kept him at arms length to disguise the changing roles of both men, Parvus involvement with German intelligence and his own liaisons with his old ally, who was not respected anymore among the socialists after his years in Turkey and after becoming a millionaire entrepreneur.[12] German intelligence set up Parvus’ financial network via offshore operations in Copenhagen, setting up relays for German money to get to Russia via fake financial transactions between front organizations. A large part of the transactions of these companies were genuine, but those served to bury the transfer of money to the Bolsheviks, a strategy made feasible by the weak and overburdened fiscal and customs offices in Scandinavia, which were inadequate for the booming black market in these countries during the war.
It is still debated to the present day whether the money with which this financial network operated was actually of German origin. The evidence published by Kerensky’s Government in preparation for a trial scheduled for October (November) 1917 was recently reexamined and found to be either inconclusive or outright forgery. (See also Sisson Documents)
However, setbacks occurred, as Ganetsky’s suspicious arms smuggling activities drew unwanted attention from the British Secret Intelligence Service who now traced Ganetsky to Parvus and hence to Baron von Wangenheim. The Baron had long been under surveillance for his support of the Young Turks’ revolutionary actions against the British. As a result Ganetsky was forced out of Denmark, while attempts were made by the British and Russians to stamp out the Bolshevik’s financial network in Turkey. Additionally, as Lenin became more and more aware of Parvus’ relations with German intelligence their relations became increasingly strained. Losing the confidence and/or control of his agents, Parvus began looking for other avenues of operation.
Parvus’ reputation with the German ministry of foreign affairs came into question when in the winter of 1916 a Parvus planned financial catastrophe in St. Petersburg (akin to Parvus’ provocation against the Russian banks in 1905) failed to produce a massive uprising. As a result, financing for Parvus’ operations were frozen. Parvus went for support to the German Navy, briefly working as their advisor. He managed to help prevent Russian naval admiral Kolchak from taking on his offensive against the Turko-German Fleet in the Bosphorus and Dardanelles by planning the sabotage of a major Russian warship. This success gave him more credibility, once again, in the eyes of the Germans.
In March 1917, in a plan strategized together with Parvus, German intelligence sent Vladimir Lenin and a group of 30 of his revolutionary associates from Switzerland through Germany in a train car under supervision of Swiss socialist Fritz Platten.[14]
Leon Trotsky has responded to these allegations in Volume 2 Chapter 4 of his History of the Russian Revolution.
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Few historians deny the fact and many have documented well that communism wanted to create a global revolution as a part of achieving global dominance and an ideal communist state of affairs where pure and perfect equality among all peoples prevail. That’s in fact, paraphrasing here, their stated objective written in the communist manifesto by their own guru Karl Marx (or as some have been referring to, Mordechai, his real family name).
Now that’s a straight out call for a World takeover, if there has ever been one. It’s equivalent to that by the islamists and the global spread of islam.
What many here are asking is in effect, whether this communist conspiracy to take over the world to achieve this communist nirvana is populated to a considerable extent by individuals that are/have been ethnic Jews and not religious followers of Judaism. And the Jews on this blog are getting irritated because of that. Instead, they should come up straight and say yes, many of my fellow Jews have participated in this global conspiracy, and me as a Jew just denounce their actions are wrong on many fronts. What’s wrong with that?
I assume that’s where you are getting to, too.
Birutta You are definitely obsessed as indicated by the extensive intricate post on Parvus. Now you are implicating a Jew in the horrible Armenian genocide- I presume. Pray, share with us what got you started on this strange odyssey. Track it back to your chilhood, if possible. I’ve accomplished lots of other things today, but you have given your entire day to this. Why?
“Is Jewishness an ethnicity or just mere a religion?”
Well, that’s a matter of opinion, I reckon.
IMO, you’re a Jew if you do what Jews were chosen to do, which is to keep and guard God’s law. If you do that, then you’re a Jew, no matter who your parents were, and no matter what some theologian (or Adolf Hitler) says.
A lot of people who call themselves Jews wouldn’t agree with that, but I don’t much care what they think. I don’t answer to them, only to God.
Same thing for being a Christian. You can be baptized in the Church of St. Nicholas, as Vladimir Lenin was, only that won’t make you a Christian…you actually have to ACT like a Christian and do what Jesus told you to do, in order to be a Christian.
If you ask me, Karl Mark, Leon Trotsky, Vlad Lenin and Joey Stalin were neither Jews nor Christians (I was just yanking some chains when I called Lenin and Stalin nice Christian boys, because they were neither nice nor Christian…too bad the point I was making went right over the heads of the Jew-hater contingent, but, that’s life, I guess). They threw that all away when they became Godless communists. But, that’s just my opinion. You’ll have to ask God to find out for sure, he’s the final authority on these matters.
So, what you’re saying is this: when the nazis sent six million Jews to concentration camps and to their death, this is an incorrect number because among them were Jews who had either converted to Christianity, or to agnosticism, or to atheism, or to communism and thus they were no longer Jews and consequently should not be counted in that total. No?
Final question: when you refer to “God” is that the Jewish G-D or the Christian God? The Christian God is a Trinity which includes Jesus Christ, the Messiah, and the Holly Ghost – not exactly your G-D is it? Don’t give me this deicide thing that someone brought up earlier to someone’s question on the difference between the two, unless you wish to imply that the two can’t coexist, one must give.
I think I already explained what I consider a Jew to be.
And, I don’t have a clue what the precise nature of God is, and I don’t waste a whole lot of time worrying about it.
Maybe you should spend some time thinking about it.
As far as your definition of who’s a real Jew, it brings up an interesting point: you seem willing to denounce those Jews who became commies. But you throw them under the bus AND at the same time wash your hands, by saying “well, they aren’t Jews after all.”
Does this bring something to mind?
“Maybe you should spend some time thinking about it.”
No, it’s a waste of time.
“well, they aren’t Jews after all.”
If you refuse to follow God’s law…then you’re not a Jew…IMO.
“But you throw them under the bus…”
They threw themselves under the bus. Men like Karl Marx, or Adolf Hitler had every chance to hear and heed the word, and to obey God, and they chose not to. Anyone raised in the Judeo-Christian tradition knows what the commandments say. If you choose not to follow them…then you’re throwing yourself under that bus.
God gave you a brain, the word, and also the free will to decide whether you wish to be a good Jew or a good Christian (basically the same thing, 2,000 years of theological bickering about trinities and messiahs and nonsense like that, notwithstanding). If you choose to throw away everything God gave you, in order to be a Nazi or a Communist, it’s you that chose…not me. I didn’t put you under that bus, you did that all by yourself.
Shocking story…but here’s an interesting point to consider – WHO CARES? IT’S NORWAY! WHO GIVES A CRAP ABOUT NORWAY?
On the list of small-countries-that-do-not-matter, Norway is likely somewhere near the top, right between Burkina Faso and Liechtenstein. If a bunch of Quisling wannabee’s demonstrate in Oslo and scream “Death to Israel” at the top of their lungs, the earth does not shake.
Honestly, Dershowitz is probably glad they turned down hiss offer, he likely has better things to do with his time than be insulted by a pack of blond Nordic eunuchs.
,,Honestly, Dershowitz is probably glad they turned down hiss offer, he likely has better things to do with his time than be insulted by a pack of blond Nordic eunuchs.”
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indeed, studs as such>>>, the likes of Dershowitz being compared to the Norwegian sorry blondes is a pure shame and a total disaster.
The mighty duck Dershowitz always wins every time- and in the eyes of the girls, oh mama, no question there! LOL
,,Birutta You are definitely obsessed as indicated by the extensive intricate post on Parvus. Now you are implicating a Jew in the horrible Armenian genocide- I presume. Pray, share with us what got you started on this strange odyssey. Track it back to your chilhood, if possible. I’ve accomplished lots of other things I’ve accomplished lots of other things today, but you have given your entire day to this. Why”
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Poor reggie- there has been an idea around the times and civilizations- called JUSTICE.
And if there is such a most beautiful rule of GOD as JUSTICE, then surely it will come for Parvus, somewhere, sometime, and some people will see to that – that the JUSTICE happens. It has not happened yet so far, but it will- sooner or later.
Don’t follow the footsteps of the silly J-sh scam artist Sigismund/ Ziggi Freud, asking about my childhood, I was fine and still am.
As for your accomplishments, I hope you cleaned your bathroom today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXS4esYOJs4&feature=player_embedded
Wow, that was a wonderful song. Thanks for the link.
WW, Your welcome. MBY
“Norwegian Israel-haters routinely insist that their hatred of the Jewish state is not an expression of anti-Semitism. But the record strongly suggests otherwise.”
I’d say that the Euro’s centuries old habit of carrying out periodic anti-Jewish pogroms definitely makes their record suspect. And, that last one was a real lulu.
“About six million Jews died in the Holocaust. Jewish communities across Europe were shattered. Many of those who survived were determined to leave Europe and start new lives in Israel or the United States. The population shifts brought on by the Holocaust and by Jewish emigration were astounding.”
“According to the American Jewish Yearbook, the Jewish population of Europe was about 9.5 million in 1933. In 1950, the Jewish population of Europe was about 3.5 million. In 1933, 60 percent of all Jews lived in Europe. In 1950, most Jews (51 percent) lived in the Americas (North and South combined), while only a third of the world’s Jewish population lived in Europe…”
“…Before the Nazi takeover of power in 1933, Europe had a vibrant and mature Jewish culture. By 1945, most European Jews–two out of every three–had been killed. Most of the surviving remnant of European Jewry decided to leave Europe. Hundreds of thousands established new lives in Israel, the United States, Canada, Australia, Great Britain, South America, and South Africa.”
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005687
If I’d survived the last anti-Jewish pogrom, I think I’d be tempted to do what a lot of survivors did, which was to get the hell out of Europe for good.
According to the Jewish Virtual Library, Europe’s Jewish population is now less than 1.5 million, which means, if the figures given above are correct, that most Jews have packed their bags and headed elsewhere, since the great anti-Jewish pogrom of the 1940s.
Sounds like a pretty good plan. I doubt if there’s been any real change in the attitude of Euros towards Jews since 1945, the attitude in Norway, which appears to me to be blatantly anti-semitic, being just another example, in a long, long chain of examples.
Funny according to biruta all the Armenian genocide committers were Jewish and the victims were muslims…………..except it was the muslims who orchestrated the genocide.
Biruta your a real jerk.
The muslims you defend were the ones who committed the Armenian genocide.
Chuckie- when and where did I defend any Moslems?
I am not a lib or a crazy J-sh commie liberal to defend the Moslems.
That is what they do.
Crazy commies like Parvus from hell did his evil deed with the Moslems together.
Are you high on something?
Islam, in this case the muslim Turks under both the Ottoman rulers and Kemal Ataturk with German assistance, committed the Armenian genocide along with a number of other genocides in Asia Minor (including that of the Christian Orthodox Greeks of the Southern Black Sea shores – the Pontians, as well the Greeks of the Eastern Aegean coastal area of Asia Minor). And this only takes us about a century ago, with a few more before then and starting with the taking of Constantinople in 1453 AD.
I didn’t get the impression that Biruta was defending the muslims.
Historian, the problem is- they don’t know any history, and they are not capable of any thinking.
By indoctrination they would follow very simplistic schemes such as: any critique of J-s would mean that one must be a Moslem loving fool.
ssssssh maybe Birutta finally went to sleep and we dont have to put up with his amphetamine- inspired rants anymore quiet everyone dont wake him and lets hope he —– in his sleep.
chucie-joke- you fool, there is nothing for you to say on the subject- just attacking the messenger~ as always.
Why don’t you see how obvious it is to everyone who isn’t blinded by your hatred for the truth?
Actually, as I could see it now, you are quite similar in your behavior with your cousins- the Arabs.
There are people who like to think they can bash Jews because they have been made to suffer. Therefore they must deserve it. But they have not given the matter sufficient thought.
Right from the get go, since the days of Eden, it is standard that he who increases knowledge, increases sorrow. But is this ‘curse’ not also a blessing? Who can lead or govern or build without knowledge.
How can one be an eternal people without the increase of knowledge?
My Ways, are not your ways, saith the Lord.
Is it not vital to know and understand the REAL consequences of decisions, choices and actions? And not only the knowledge of immediate results but how they can also, surely affect the long term results.
And to undersand fully, completely that these results are sure and real.
There is much wisdom in the ways of the Lord, for He knows the end of things and prepares us for our own good.
I for one, will accept His decisions, because I know where they will take me. Suffering is not too great a price to pay, for the knowledge of survival into eternity and how to best apply it.
So while some may think that the Jews ‘deserve’ to suffer…..well, you know maybe they do. Because the Lord knows what He is doing.
Having read your comments policy I realize that the criticisms leveled at me on another site could not have been posted here at all.
I had claimed that summarily equating opposition to immigration and immigration mockery with racism and xenophobia was a slander similar to the ad hominem attacks that are so repulsive in much political propaganda.
And I had deplored the wave of European trials of anti-immigration spokesmen for hate speech or other speech or thought crimes.
You would have thought I had stepped on a rabid dog’s sore toe.
Why does the introduction to the article claim 269 comments, yet I can plainly see only 91?
Someone got their counting mixed up?
Because the replays don’t count. You can see, that replays would go without the post number.
Whenever uneducated, anti-intellectual, anti-science, racist, right-wing crazies in America hate on Norway, I feel proud. Because when stupid crazy people tell you that you’re wrong, you must be doing something right.
“I’m looking to purchase a house in the North Atlanta area; looks like I will have to buy a larger house so I can be prepared to take in the Norwegian Jews before the pogroms begin in earnest. America will get the scholars and scientists, while Norway will keep the thugs and terrorists.”
Yes, all jews are scientists and all muslims are thugs and terrorists. In the eyes of a true racist, of course.
It’s amazing to read this much crap in one place. From a crazy article about a deluded, egalomaniac Dershowitz (why on Earth should Norwegian universities and ministers meet with him?), to a huge amount of nutcase commentaries. It seems some jews are obsessed with everything, every statement, every action which it may be possible to twist into being antisemitic.
Of course it is possible, nay a moral necessity, to condemn Israel for so many decades of oppression of the native Palestinians. That is not antisemitic at all! Quite the contrary! Trying to brand all critique of Israel as antisemitism is actally quite disgusting. You just disqualify yourself from the debate and show yourself to be running out of apologies for Israels abhorrent behaviour, when you start to fling the “antisemitism-card” around.
When you start to demand that all jews must comply with your Israel-apologetic stance and that those who doesn’t are “self-hating” jews, thats just crazy!
And when you try to smear one of the most decent and humane contries on Earth with these filthy pieces of gutter-journalism, you just show yourselves as ugly racist bigots.
Crawl back under your rock’s.
To #95 – Norwegian:
There were no “native Palestinians” per se. There were Jews, Christians, Moslems, Greeks, Arabian arabs, Armenians, etc. who lived in the Turkish Ottoman Empire region known as “Palestine”, a former province for many centuries, of the Roman Empire. Before that, there was a Jewish kingdom of Israel and Judea.
There never has been a state of “Palestine” and the term was sparsely used until Arafat and Nasser began to create on artificial entity represented by the Egyptian-created “PLO”. The so-called “Palestinians” who live in Jordan were those living in British-controlled “Transjordan” which was later made into the Hashmenite Kingdon of Jordan, which never existed before in history.
Saudia Arabia wasn’t a nation until the early 20th Century. Yemen had a far longer history and claim to the area than the House of Saud (former nomads).
And what do you call those people who did not leave Israel in 1948? They are called Israelis – Period. They can claim to be Palestinian-Israelis, or Moslem-Israelis, Christian Israelis, etc, but their citizenship is Israeli, the land is Israel, and it is open to all faiths and ethnic people. Try to say that about the Hamas/PLA “Palestine”, or Saudi Arabia, or Lebanon.
Slitting the throat of a 3-month old little girl defines who the “Palestinians” are, Mr. Norwegian. Is this who you are defending?
How do the people on this comment thread feel about Thomas Jefferson’s Declaration of Independence describing native Americans as “merciless Indian savages”?
As a Norwegian I can’t even begin to relate to most of the crazy comments that have been made here.
This must be the same crowd that thinks liberal Jewish-Americans like Matthew Yglesias and Glenn Greenwald are bloodthirsty anti-semites.