In the end it was the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) that made the determination that these toys were analogous to automatic weapons, as explained by ATF Special Agent in Charge (SAC) of the Seattle Field Division Kelven Crenshaw. Crenshaw helpfully displayed his knowledge and expertise with firearms in an interview with Portland’s KOIN6 by attempting to put a magazine into one of the WE Tech CQBR backwards. This is apparently the same Special Agent Kelven Crenshaw that ATF whistleblower site Cleanup ATF says is a former assistant director demoted and moved for incompetence, reprisals against his own employees, and regulation violations.
PJ Media has contacted the CBP and ATF on multiple occasions in the last week, attempting to determine why these and similar Airsoft toys are just now being determined to be machine guns, after thousands have already been imported.
We asked if the ATF determination claimed in this Customs press release would reclassify any or all gas blowback (GBB) firearms with realistic external proportions as firearms, and selective-fire versions of these items as Class III weapons.
We also asked if this determination means that every retail establishment that has sold or will sell this and similar weapons is guilty of committing felonies for violating numerous federal laws including (but not limited to) the National Firearms Act of 1934, the Gun Control Act of 1968, the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 (for those Airsoft dealers that sold handguns to persons under 21 years of age), and the Hughes Amendment of the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act, along with an unknown number of state and local laws.
PJ Media also asked that if this determination stands, will the ATF and Department of Justice call for the immediate suspension of imports of these Airsoft rifles, and begin attempts to confiscate those already imported. We also asked whether owners and sellers of such devices face jail time if they do not turn them in.
And finally, we asked if it could it be possible that the ATF officers who made the determination are incorrect, and suggested that if that were the case, the ATF should return these items to their rightful owner, Airsoft Outlet NW.
To date, Customs and Border Protection officials have referred all questions about the seizure to the ATF. They have refused to respond to specific claims by Airsoft Outlet NW. The Seattle Division of the ATF, which should have immediately recognized these toys as toys, has referred all inquires to ATF Headquarters in Washington, D.C., which has refused to answer any questions.
An incredible $20,000 worth of Airsoft Outlet NW Airsoft guns are presently under threat of destruction because of apparent incompetency in two federal law enforcement agencies, while the exact same toys are available for purchase online, in neighborhood retail shops around the nation, and around the world.
It would seem that the CBP and ATF have painted themselves into a corner.
They either must admit that their officers and agents made a serious mistake after a pattern of serial unprofessional behavior that verged on punitive abuse, or they must attempt to shut down the entire distribution chain of all similar Airsoft products being imported into the country and attempt to confiscate the thousands already on the market.
The latter would come at tremendous taxpayer expense and make these agencies even more of a laughingstock than they are now.
But at least we’ll be safe from toy guns.
Equal protection under and due process of law… I thought those were Constitutional civil rights in this county? Seizing stuff just because authorities feel like it doesn’t violate those, does it? Rule of law? Bah, liberals know better!
America, this is not going to end well is it?
Airsoft Outlet NW should have just paid the bribe and none of this would have happened.
As a former Marine Corps armorer and weapons instructor, in addition to being a private firearms instructor and gunsmith, I have had many interactions with with various departmental entities, Federal State and local, “on the firing line” as classmates and/or students over the years.
I can tell you that “cops”, in general, do not understand two things.
1) Guns
2) The law
They “shoot themselves in the foot” literally and figuratively, in general administration, and, if issued live rounds, with ordnance.
Scan the local papers on police shootings and see the alarming number of incidents where 20, 30, or 50 rounds are fired…then see “perps” struck maybe 3 or 4 times. Innocent bystanders beware, government employees at work.
If they can be expected to miss what they “aim” at 60-80% of the time, why should you expect them to read and understand the law any better?
This whole affair is remarkably similar to the Secret Service raid on Steve Jackson Games in 1990.
http://sjgames.com/SS/
In both cases, ignorant, incompentent, and arrogant federal agents forcibly seized the property of private businesses on the basis of ridiculous claims and no evidence whatsoever. In the SJG case, Secret Service agents claimed that a book of rules for a science fiction roleplaying game was “a manual for computer crime.” In the current case, CBP and ATF agents don’t know the difference between a toy gun and a real weapon.
Steve Jackson Games sued the Secret Service and won. I hope that Airsoft Outlet NW is planning to do likewise.
Maybe they are recruiting from the TSA?
I own a few Airsoft guns myself and I have to admit this story troubles me. It’s bad enough that law enforcment and law makers have trouble with my real firearms but they want to mess up my fakes as well? WTH?!
Damn, there is no way that the authorities cannot be retarded on this one!
Waco, Ruby Ridge…. now toys. I hear that New York wants to go after aSALT weapons at the food joints next. Do you suppose atf will come in and pepper the place for a salty pretzel?
You can’t make this s*** up.
In the SJG case, Secret Service agents claimed that a book of rules for a science fiction roleplaying game was “a manual for computer crime.”
We all know that the government agents are afraid that, after suffering too much abuse, the citizens of this country will rise up, take their airsoft rifles in arm, and march on the establishment. Imagine it from the point of view of the government agents. With all of the airsoft-armed people out there, an agent could lose an eye before they manage to gun down the angry mob of subjects – I mean citizens.
I think it should be pointed out that these guns originate in Japan, a country with some of the most strict gun control laws in the world. It’s about as difficult to get a real gun in Japan as it is to get a fully automatic one here in the US. Yet these toy guns are easily available there to the general public.
What this points out is that the anti-gun movement is not about safety, it’s about hoplophobics fear of guns.
Next, they will go after my Laser Tag pistol. If you increase the power levels, it should be able to destroy buildings, just like in the cartoons these government agents are watching.
The government spent a large amount of time and money covering up the Steve Jackson case. The judge had to force them to do anything, even after his judgement against them.
I wonder if they would have these issues at another port of entry? I mean they are in the NW after all. Time to relocate to TX! LOL
this is classic §1983 lawsuit territory. the discovery alone should be massively embarassing for the CBP and ATF and entertaining for everyone else.
They told me that if I voted Republican, then I’d end up in a world where my only choices to explain government actions were incompetence, insanity, or outright malice. AND THEY WERE RIGHT!
I approached this story from the other end, by contacting AirSplat, the parent company of AirSoft. They assured me that real gun parts did not fit the WE M4 receiver in question, nor could be made to work. I posted that statement, and then had one reader say that he had heard it actually was possible. So back I went to AirSplat, and they honestly tried to make it work. It doesn’t. The toy receiver looks like the real gun’s receiver, but the dimensions are off just enough so that the real parts don’t fit in, or on, the toy gun’s receiver. And the toy parts won’t fit on the real guns either. They sent me a whole bunch of photos of the attempt, which I put up at http://www.barking-moonbat.com/index.php/weblog/airsoft_update_a_post_for_b3/
I would say the ball is squarely in the BATFE’s court on this one: not only prove that it can be done, by prove that it can be done “easily” as they claim. I don’t think it is possible, period. But let’s see what they respond with. But when you add in the facts that you aren’t getting a response, and that they haven’t demanded that the tens of thousands of these toy guns around the country be pulled off the market immediately, the conclusion is pretty obvious. Somebody in their department goofed, big time.
Will it take another “Waco” before this monster can be caged?
What did you expect from a regulatory agency that has no written testing standards or procedures for real firearms, much less toy look-a-likes? Read this and then tell me why the BATFE has any business telling anyone what that air soft rifle is or is not.
If a shoelace can be a machine gun, why can’t an airsoft be a gun? http://www.jpfo.org/images02/shoestring.jpg
Moby – the shoelace is a machine gun, like the Lightning Link. Both are considered that because there is no category for “parts necessary to convert weapon to fully automatic”. Which your linked document shows. Both fit on existing firearms. So that’s kind of an apples to oranges comparison, but I do agree that the rules are pretty muddy in some places.
Besides, if you learn how to bump fire, you don’t need these things anyway.
“reclassify any or all gas blowback (GBB) firearms”
You might want to rephrase: a gas-operated gun cannot be a “firearm,” by definition.
Aren’t these the same goobers (CPB) who gave Michael Yon a hard time a couple months back?
drew458, I chose a bad analogy. My point was that firearm laws are getting more and more ludicrous. Regulating shoelaces and lightning links, and confiscating airsofts will not reduce violent crime. Reducing violent crime is really all most people care about, but the ATF and BOF are not most people.
These government gangsters are probably practicing for the time the gangsta in chief,decides to rule by decree,and orders them to seize all firearms from their legal owners.They should be disarmed and sent to prison.
Bohemond:
No, you want to keep the wording the way it is.
The AR15 (M16/M4 in military form), M60 GPMG, M240 GPMG, M249 SAW, AK47, FAL, and hundreds of other real guns are “gas operated”. It’s the most common operating system for rifles and machineguns. As the bullet goes down the barrel, it passes a hole in the barrel, which diverts some of the propellant gas into the operating mechanism to cycle the gun. The bullet acts as a closed exhaust valve, keeping the gas pressure high enough for functioning, until milleseconds later when it leaves the barrel. Like a single piston internal combustion engine, only with ammo as the fuel.
Blowback is the most common operating system for submachineguns and low powered pistols. The pressure of the expanding propellant pushes back on the cartridge case (equal and opposite reaction). The only thing holding the bolt closed long enough for teh bullet to leave the barrel and the pressure to drop is inertia (even the spring tension on the bolt from the main spring is pretty much irrelevant at these pressures). Most .22 target pistols, most .32 ACP and .380 pocket pistols, the Uzi (all versions), the Thompson, etc. — these are all blowback operated guns. (More powerful pistols like the US Army’s old .45ACP M1911, have to have some sort of locking system, because the weight of teh bolt needed to keep them closed long enough to be safe is WAY heavier and clunkier than a locking system. A .45ACP blowback bolt has to weigh about a pound. . . )
GBB (Gas Blowback) is a term SPECIFIC to Airsoft guns, and doesn’t mean either one of these two Real World gun operating systems.
And if GBB is properly used in this manner, it prevents confusion between Airsoft operating systems and some of the more unusual Real World gun operating systems like Delayed Blowback (like teh HK MP5, G3, etc., use — they’re blowback, but have a mechanical disadvantage added in so teh bolt has to work harder to open than pure inertia would acount for so you don’t need a huge heavy bolt but they still aren’t “locked” at the moment of firing like most automatic or autoloading rifles are) and Gas Retarded Blowback (a blowback gun crossed with gas operated — except the gas is used to hold the bolt SHUT until pressure drops).
Bohemond said:
“reclassify any or all gas blowback (GBB) firearms”
You might want to rephrase: a gas-operated gun cannot be a “firearm,” by definition.
****************
Bohemond:
No, GBB (Gas Blowback) is NOT the same as “gas operated”.
One is the operating system of a toy, and the other means a real gun.
GBB is a purely Airsoft (well, you could design a GBB system to work ANY kind of air gun I suppose) operating system. if you say GBB, you mean an air gun of some sort, and ONLY an air gun.
“Gas operated” is what Real Steel guns like the AR15/M4, AK47, M60 GPMG, FAL, M249 SAW, M240 GPMG, Bren LMG, M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, etc. operate with. As the bullet travels down teh barrel, it passes a hole that taps off some of the propellant gas to work the system. The bullet acts like a closed exhaust valve (keeping pressure high enough to move the piston) until the bullet leaves the barrel, and the whole operating cycle is remarkeably like a single cylinder internal combustion engine that uses ammo as the fuel. With a REALLY brief operating time (you only have working pressure for teh time teh bullet moves the few inches between the gas port and teh muzzle — everything after that works on inertia of teh parts you’ve had gas shoving against.)
“Blowback” is ALSO a Real Steel gun operating system, used in low powered pistols and rifles (.22 rimfires and a lot of pocket pistols in .32 or .380) and most submachineguns. The pressure of teh propellant gas (gas pushes in all directions at once) forcing the empty case back out of teh chamber (and shoving the bolt with it). True blowback guns are completely unlocked — the only thing holding that bolt closed until teh pressure drops to safe levels is inertia (even the operating spring barely does anything to hold it shut, due to teh short timeframe).
Then there’s less common “hybrid” operating systems for Real Steel guns, like the Delayed Blowback favored by HK (it’s a blowback gun, but uses some kind of mechnical delay or disadvantage to delay opening teh bolt, so you can shoot higher powered rounds without massively huge bolts. . . still unlocked — the only thing holding an MP5 or G3 bolt closed on firing is inertia, and a pair of rollers that have to roll out of the way. It’s not postively locked like the AK47 or AR15 bolts, which have to rotate far enough that the steel lugs clear teh recesses that hold the bolt mechanically shut.) Or Gas Retarded Blowback (another German quirk), where it’s a blowback gun crossed with a gas operated one — only the gas system is used solely to push the gun CLOSED so that the gas pressure is helping the bolt “appear” more massive and stay closed longer.
My apologies — I thought the original (Anonymous) failed to post becuase I didn;t stick my name and email in, so I rewrote the post. If the management wishes to delete the anonymous comment, I think the named post is better anyway.
These government gangsters are probably practicing for the time the gangsta in chief,decides to rule by decree,and orders them to seize all firearms from their legal owners.They should be disarmed and sent to prison.
Do my comments show?
Just to point out this is the same agency that torched one of their own vans when trying to prove model rockets could shoot down an airplane.
http://www.space-rockets.com/arsanews.html
(site is kind of broken just search the site for Van)
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