Agents of Incompetence: ATF Seizes Gun Shipment Labeled ‘Toys’ — But They Really Were Toys
One glance at the headlines would have convinced you that a major tragedy was averted by the keen eyes of U.S. Customs inspectors at the Port of Tacoma recently. KOMO blared: “Customs agents nab shipment of machine guns in Tacoma.” Other news outlets pointed out the dastardly nature of the shipment. KIRO in Seattle claimed: “Automatic Rifles Labeled As Toys Seized In Tacoma.” The Seattle Post-Intelligencer went with: “Customs seizes gun shipment labeled ‘toys.’”
Working from a Customs and Border Protection (CBP) press release entitled “Tacoma Seaport U.S. Customs and Border Protection Officers Seize Shipment of Machineguns,” these news organizations had every reason to feel that they were just reporting the news, especially when Customs and Border Protection Area Port Director Rolando Suliveras Jr. claimed:
These rifles could have had far-reaching and potentially devastating ramifications if they had gotten into the hands of individuals who wanted to do harm in the American population. This was a good interception by our officers.
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But there was much, much more to the story that Suliveras and the CBP failed to mention, starting with the fact that the 30 “machine guns” seized in the raid really were toys.
To be specific, the items seized were 16 WE TTI (WE Tech) M4A1 and 14 WE TTI (WE Tech) M4 CQBR gas blowback Airsoft rifles that shoot plastic BBs.
For those unfamiliar with these toys, Airsoft offers a less messy and more realistic looking alternative to paintball for both gamers and tactical training. The lightweight BBs can sting and leave welts at close distances on bare skin, but they don’t pose the same threat of shooting your eye out we’ve come to associate with more traditional BB guns and their copper-coated steel payload. Because Airsoft guns can be made to look like existing firearms and can mimic their controls, they are sometimes used for military and police training scenarios where real firearms using live ammunition would be unsafe, and at a per-round cost far cheaper than alternatives.
Of course, Airsoft guns are not real firearms, even the most realistic looking ones.
While the exact materials used in Airsoft guns vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and model to model, even nicer models such as those captured by U.S. Customs in Tacoma are typically made of a mix of inexpensive plastics and cheaply cast pot metals. Some small critical components — typically parts of the trigger pack or gas system — are made of more durable metals, such as brass and steel. While not designed to handle high temperatures or pressures, the materials used in Airsoft are sufficient to reliably propel plastic pellets to a range of a couple hundred feet with a charge of compressed gas.
So when Brad and Ben Martin of Airsoft Outlet Northwest had their latest shipment of 30 WE Airsoft rifles confiscated by Customs inspectors, they expected to get them back in a reasonable amount of time. The guns are, after all, rather plainly toys once you have a close look at them and how they operate. The Martins have shipped these and similar Airsoft guns through the ports of Portland, Seattle, and Tacoma many times before, and while some Customs inspectors were more likely than others to let the toys pass through without undue delays, they were always eventually released.
But for reasons still inadequately explained, Customs provided the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) one or more of the Airsoft rifles from the shipment they seized from the Martins, and the ATF declared that these Airsoft guns could be converted into real, fully-automatic machine guns.
Those who know these particular Airsoft guns the best uniformly describe the ATF claim as preposterous.
This is the idiocy left/librals want running healthcare?
yes, “librals”. I’m sure intelligent “conservtivs” like you would do much better.
The ATF & the TSA are a bunch of blithering idiots. They wouldn’t know a real weapon if someone shot’em with it!
I play Airsoft and deal with real guns as part of my job. Even a tertiary examination of these toys by anyone with a passing knowledge of firearms would realize that they can’t be made into real guns. This is just silly. Someone has tried to boost their bust numbers and made themselves look stupid.
If one wishes to find domestic terrorism one need look no further than the BATF.
Since when was it proposed the BATF run healthcare?
Obvious troll is obvious.
I think you’re missing the big picture here. Gov’t incompetency runs rampant in all agencies. As a Fed employee, it is sometimes embarassing to mention where I work. Out of 10, 8 are good employees, 1 is a no-show slacker and 1 is almost evil. Just my experience.
The “reasoning” behind ATFE’s claim evaporates completely when you consider that it would be far simpler for a group wanting fully-automatic weapons for nefarious purposes to simply have them smuggled in from south of the border. There’s a reason that aside from AR-15 series weapons “misappropriated” after being supplied to the Mexican government by the U.S. government, the most common auto weapons with the Mexican drug cartels’ gunmen are AK-47 knockoffs made in Red China.
Most criminals and would-be terrorists, here and abroad, haven’t the training or equipment to modify even a legal semi-automatic weapon to full-auto capability. To believe that they can somehow convert an air-or-CO2-operated plastic replica designed to fire plastic pellets about the size of costume jewelry beads, or plastic balls about the size of marbles full of water-soluble pigments, into a weapon capable of firing high-pressure metallic-cartridge ammunition at all, let alone in full-auto mode, goes beyond fantasy into outright lunacy. In fact, to believe it can be done at all shows evidence of not merely technical ignorance, but demonstrable dementia on the part of those who make the claim. (It’s called “loss of contact with objective reality”, rather like believing that one can make potable soup from lye soap.)
This is yet another example of why ATFE is the only law-enforcement agency which is utterly incapable of enlisting the aid of law-abiding civilians in combating crime. Simply put, most people interested in firearms would be quite willing to call up the agency when they hear something about someone trying to acquire illegal weapons, as could have happened in the Washington D.C. sniper case- if, that is, the people the snipers tried to buy (illegal) homemade “silencers” from hadn’t concluded, based on prior experience, that they were undercover ATF types looking to frame somebody for a “crime” so they could have a big, flashy bust around budget time. (The timing and tactical incompetence of ATF’s Waco debacle was no accident- as the local authorities in Texas told Congress, to deaf ears on the part of Schumer, et al.)
This case is yet another piece of concrete evidence strongly indicating that ATF does not care about qualifications, knowledge, or training when it recruits agents. It seems that due to ATF’s “corporate culture”, the only thing that matters is if the applicant has a psychotic/sociopathic hatred of people who own guns. Period. And oh yes, they give these “holy crusaders” loaded guns to go with their badges. (Not a good idea, in my professional opinion.)
It’s time to seriously discuss abolishing ATFE. The FBI does background checks on gun purchases, and does it well, thoroughly, and quickly. The Bureau has a crime lab that has more “corporate memory” on the subjects of firearms and explosives than perhaps any other LEO on Earth. And their agents are carefully screened to rule out the sort of OCDs on any subject that ATFE agents seem to have over the very idea of law-abiding citizens owning firearms.
Instead of transferring ATF from Treasury to Justice, the last administration would have done better to abolish it altogether.
And to ensure that all of its agents were retired and prohibited from ever working for any other agency that might allow them arrest authority, or access to weapons, ever.
clear ether
eon
SInce it is the BATF, covering up serial incompetence is the clear winner.
I can’t believe the ATF wasn’t dismantled after the Branch Davidian debacle in ’93. Yes, David Koresh was a dangerous pervert who needed to be apprehended, but the way the ATF went about it was dangerously childish. It was guaranteed to end in disaster. If there was any question about their incompetence, it was settled in the affirmative during their testimony to Congress about the incident.
Obama agencies run amok!
damn it obama! why did he have to invent or have anything to do with the ATF
It does sound idiotic but, in their defense, I have purchased some Airsoft guns for my boy that are almost completely made out of metal and are extremely realistic. It has even made me wonder if it could some how be a subterfuge for getting real weapons (or parts) into the country.
Pretty simple George. Not all metals are the same in terms of strength. Real ammunition creates tremendous pressures in the action. Pot metal (a la Airsoft) would explode. For my part I expect Americans to have guns. Real ones. It’s part of our revolutionary heritage. We’re the people who told an empire to go suck egss and managed to beat them in combat.
You might read Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution then google up 10 USC 311.
When toys are outlawed, only outlaws will have toys.
Or something like that.
Relax guys. All the BATF agents involved in this little piece of theater are going to get their pensions and that’s what is really important. Get your priorities straight.
I guess when Customs called ATF they got either the Tobacco or the Alcohol guys, cause the Firearms folks were out to lunch, or on vacation.
Doofuses on the taxpayer’s dime.
Waco is just the most well known ATF atrocity.
Sammy and Vicki Weaver
Kenyon Ballew
Kimberly Katona’s unborn child
Monique Montgomery
Alan Gillespie
Theresa Lumplugh’s cat
not to mention the millions of John Lawmaster’s and Sina Brush’s out there.
Oh, my God. There is now officially no limit to the lies our government will tell.
I have maintained and upgraded my kid’s airsoft guns for some time- they can no more be converted into actual firearms than can a water pistol.
An airsoft AEG (automatic electric gun) consists, internally, of
1) a smoothbore aluminum or brass thinwall barrel, utterly incapable of handling an actual bullet and associated gas pressure
2) a ‘mechbox’, containing a small electric motor and gear train which causes a plastic piston to slide back and forth in a plastic or sheet-brass cylinder, with a nozzle for expelling the air so compressed
3) a “hop-up”/chamber assembly, a rubber sleeve and adjustible backspin nub together with a small round aperture which allows BBs to be fed from the magazine and pushed down the barrel by a puff of air
4) a plastic spring-powered ‘magazine’ which can only feed plastic BB’s.
Now, all this stuff is encased in a plastic, sheetmetal and/or cast potmetal exterior which visually resembles a real firearm, but it’s all for show. There is absolutely zero functional similarity to a genuine gun, and ATF is lying through its disgusting teeth.
8. bill:
I can’t believe the ATF wasn’t dismantled after the Branch Davidian debacle in ‘93. Yes, David Koresh was a dangerous pervert who needed to be apprehended, but the way the ATF went about it was dangerously childish. It was guaranteed to end in disaster. If there was any question about their incompetence, it was settled in the affirmative during their testimony to Congress about the incident.
Branch Davidian was a bit strange as religions go, but the local Sheriff has investigated the child abuse long ago, found no problem.
The ATF does not investigate child abuse so you might want to reconsider your assumptions.
The ATF is criminal in their conduct, but they are the govt so it is OK, at least according to the tyrant in charge.
I used the think this agency should be disbanded. Upon further reflection, in view of the 2nd amendment, I can actually see the need for a small federal agency. . . whose purpose is to prevent government interference with gun ownership, of course, that will never happen. So, never mind, abolish them!
simple. get who ever says it could be converted to convert it and then make them run 1,000 rounds through it. like it was said, to do it safely you could build your own from scratch as easily.
seems some atf people need to be let go.
So the BATFE has legal authority to even examine an air-soft rifle? Since they are not legally classified as firearms how is this possible? I hope that someone sues the jack booted thugs at BATFE, and shows just how stupid these guys are.
Bob,
Thanks – just a note: Air rifles can indeed be converted into genuine firearms. Then again, the cost is so prohibitively high, one would simply be better-off buying a decent original. There’s always the “cheap” way – but that’s what melting and recycling is all about.
For that matter, one could convert a toaster into a firearm by rolling the metal into a barrel, etc. The point being, the “danger” of conversion is almost always a false premise.
What I’d prefer to see is the BATFE converted… into a free-market entity that sells Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms alongside milk and eggs. That would be Progress.
Cheers!
I saw and listened to this ATF agent and his report on the guns. This agent needs some serious firearms training. As a Federally licensed firearms dealer, I have worked with some very compitent and “gun savey” agents who didn’t have such ego problems. Not so with all the agents in the bureau. Anyhow, everyone is over-reacting to the whole thing in the first place. The real issue is that the guy who ordered the guns did not make sure that the orange barrel tip was either orange plastic or painted orange which is required by law to allow law enforcement people to identify the gun as a toy or take it for the real thing. The guy that ordered the guns must have been trying to save a buck as the manufacturer which is out of country could give S__t if the barrels have the required orange tip or not. The guns should have been seized because they did not meet the requirements as prescribed by law for a toy gun. THAT is the issue!
“9. Patrick Martin:
Obama agencies run amok!”
I know you are being sarcastic. But in a profound way you strike the truth.
Those who tend to tyranny must, of necessity, control the individual. Both the BATFE and obama are similar children of the corn.
It would be funny if it wasn’t pathetic. And to think these inept yahoos actually carry weapons. It’s hard to believe they know which end the trajectory comes out of.
The real danger is the ineptitude of the government.
“25. Emily:
The real danger is the ineptitude of the government.”
Yes, now it is clear who should have “weapons” with orange tips.
The country has always had a problem with cops too stupid to tell the differance between a real gun and a toy. They have shot children and towns like New London Connecticut have capped the intelligence of police officers. While there is no Federal standard requiring that “dumb cop” be a redundent term it has certainly been the rule.t
“27. Avitar:”
The reason for capping the intelligence level to be a cop is because, at a certain point one actually starts to think for oneself. Thinking, is anathema to totalitarianism.
anon #5… Troll Power!
Seriuosly, this kind of idiocy (generally) is what left/liberals want to have running healthcare. I say “generally,” because I don’t think they’s actually want the BATF running it (although I am making an assumption, I realize).
23. Ron Oliver
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/ATF-seizes-30-toy-guns-infuriating-local-business/vUVs2QUCAUuZWeRrqgIQaA.cspx
The orange barrel requirement apparently has been an issue before, but is easy to solve. Here is the last paragraph of that article:
“The Martins said they’ve received shipments before from Taiwan that were missing the orange tips and were simply asked by customs agents to drive up to Tacoma and paint the tips orange themselves. They are wondering why it is an issue now.”
Regarding the orange tips.
I’m wondering at exactly which point in the import/sale cycle that toys must have these magical orange tips that impecunious bad guys can’t paint black, and thus use to stick up gas stations.
According to the law, must the tips be orange when the shipping container lands on the dock?
When the toy reseller who ordered it takes possession?
Or, when it is actually sold to a consumer?
When did real criminals using real guns to commit real crimes cease to be a problem such that these people have time to make fools of themselves over toys?
Oh, and lets not forget this gem while we listen to them claim it was about orange tips:
“These rifles could have had far-reaching and potentially devastating ramifications if they had gotten into the hands of individuals who wanted to do harm in the American population. This was a good interception by our officers.”
–Customs and Border Protection Area Port Director Rolando Suliveras Jr.
Once long ago in a galaxy far far away……
I worked as a paramedic in a major metropolitan area. I ran a call in which a bomb had been placed in a car in front of the engine block. The bomb exploded and the victim suffered two broken legs. Let’s say that the person injured had some “Mob” connections. Several days later after the incident the ATF sent an “Agent” to interview me for the record and my impressions.
He started off with the usual stuff, and then it became very interesting. From my vantage point it was plainly obvious that the victim owed some money to someone very powerful. Otherwise the bomber would have put the explosive under the seat and left him in pieces. The agent was of the impression that “someone wanted him dead”. I explained that if that was the case why would the have taken the time to place the bomb in front of the engine block protecting the victim. The blast was so powerful it drove the engine block into the firewall crushing his legs. This was so far beyond the agent that he appeared lost and unable to even see this simple evidence.
So am I surprised that they could not tell the difference between a toy and the real thing? Obviously, they have some significant issues with reality. Now they will say and do anything to hide their incompetence, probably including prosecuting the buyers for some obscure federal law like “filling out a customs form while sneezing is a felony” or something. This would provide them sufficient cover for their stupidity.
and in a land not so far away, even something more idiotic (neo-liberal) happened: “Ionia kindergartner suspended for making gun with hand”…
http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2010/03/ionia_kindergartener_suspended.html
actually the guns should not have been siezed due to the lack of orange tips. i’ll have to grab the actual code sction but orange tips are not required for guns that use air or springs as a propellant, only for actual toy guns. none of my bb guns, paintball guns have orange tips.
Several previous posts either advocated that BATFE be disbanded or wondered why that had not already been done. After the fiasco at Waco, the government entertained the idea of moving the law enforcement part of the agency into the FBI under the Justice Department (where many say it should have been since day one) and leaving the revenue collection portion under Treasury. The sticking point was what to do with the agents in the law enforcement branch, i.e. Wayne Lapierre’s “Jack Booted Thugs In Nazi Looking Helmets”. FBI had just cleaned up one of BATFE’s catastrophy’s at Waco, and had enough PR problems already with the behavior of its own HRT snipers at both Waco and Ruby Ridge. As a result they wanted nothing to do with BATFE’s cowboys. Since the agents in question all had civil service protection, the idea was dropped as unworkable and that’s why we are where we are today.
Whom do they serve?? What are their intentions? Is this simply another isolated incident or something deeper and much more menacing? I’ve heard all I need to hear to convince me that very dark days are ahead of this country. The stomping of their boots is loud enough for anyone to notice if individual rights and freedom have any meaning to you.
There is a reason real LEO’s refer to these sinister clowns as “F” troop.
Quick, someone have the BATFE seize all shipments of steel entering the country, as this material can just as easily be made into an automatic weapon!
The Bureau has a crime lab that has more “corporate memory” on the subjects of firearms and explosives than perhaps any other LEO on Earth. And their agents are carefully screened to rule out the sort of OCDs on any subject that ATFE agents seem to have over the very idea of law-abiding citizens owning firearms.
I firmly believe that the one thing of which there is no shortage in the known universe, is human stupidity.
That said, I am inclined to believe that BATFE is attempting to corner the market.
Regarding their bungled “Operation Hollywood” (that’s the Branch Davidian massacre), I’ve done a lot more reading on the subject than most.
Several facts stand out for me:
1) The raid was completely unnecessary from a law enforcement perspective. Only the need for the BATF to have a “flashy” raid before budget review compelled the fiasco. Five cameras were taken to the raid by the BATF. All “malfunctioned”. That should be the first clue to coverup.
2) Koresh was known to run the same route outside the compound each day – alone. How hard is it to pick up a guy who is jogging a known route at a known time? Turns out, Koresh had been arrested on a charge of ATTEMPTED MURDER a couple years previously. Did it take horse-trailers full of jack-booted thugs with machineguns to take him into custody? Nope. Two deputies. One knocked on the door. The other held the clipboard. When Koresh answered the door, they established his identity and told him he was under arrest for attempted murder. His response? “Let me get my hat and coat and let’s go.” When the ATF opened fire on the people of Mt. Carmel, Koresh called 911 for help! Now, have you EVER heard of a guilty person calling 911 for help? Think about it. The Davidians were under attack by blood-thirsty Nazis.
3) When the ATF sent agents to review purchase documents, the gun shop owner contacted Koresh and told him what was going on. Koresh told the shot owner, “Tell ‘em to come over and I’ll show them everything I’ve got.” The ATF declined.
4) The original reasons given by the BATF for storming Koresh’s home and church was two-fold.
a) They claimed he was a child molester. and,
b) They claimed he was arming to take over the city of Waco.
Need I point out that ATF isn’t chartered to investigate allegations of child molestation? Even if they were, the State of Texas had TWICE done the same investigation within the previous year finding no evidence to support the allegation… and they didn’t need to gas, shoot or burn anyone. The claim of planning to take over Waco later morphed into “modifying guns”. No evidence of this backup claim was ever produced. The County Sheriff has stated that Korest asked him frequently whether doing such-and-such to guns was “legal” – trying to stay within the boundaries of the law – which makes the federal claims even more likely to be outright lies.
5) There are many, many other reasons to believe the BATF royally screwed up. But the most telling evidence of all might be what the FBI and ATF did AFTER all the Davidians were shot, gassed or burned to death. Instead of preserving the crime scene for evidence – they bulldozed it. Can anyone think of any reason to do this other than to destroy evidence? Later, a Texas Ranger discovered among the debris held by the State of Texas, evidence of the Federal lie that “no incendiary gas projectiles had been used”. The ATF and/or FBI intentionally immolated men, women and children. They murdered Americans.
We should never forget that. Nor should we be led to believe that Koresh (crazy though he might have been) deserved such treatment.
Not only should the BATF have been disbanded, but everyone involved in the raid should have been sentenced to years of hard time in prison.
“Now, have you EVER heard of a guilty person calling 911 for help? ”
As a 911 dispatcher, yes I have. F-Troop doesn’t have the market on stupidity cornered just yet.
Govt should be care about all these activities .The ATF & the TSA are a bunch of blithering idiots. They wouldn’t know a real weapon if someone shot’em with it!
I have an FBI Special Agent colleague and friend – he and his pals refer to the BATFE agents as the “special needs” component of federal law enforcement officers.
I clearly can understand why…
BATF is not the only government agency out of control.
Canine, take a good look at the FBI.
In my opinion, ALL GOVERNMENT agencis is out of control.
Yes friends ALL OF Them, and it did not start with OBAMA,
it just picked up speed.
I think we’re in way more trouble than we think.
I guess when Customs called ATF they got either the Tobacco or the Alcohol guys, cause the Firearms folks were out to lunch, or on vacation.
Just a quick question here. If the ATF was to be “disbanded” who would handle all of the crimes concerning ,oh who knows, alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives? Maybe there are some agents that need to be let go. Maybe the Koresh deal wasn’t dealt with the way it should have been. In my opinion unless you want to go through the academy and get your badge you have no room to trash talk hard working law enforcement officers. If you would like to go through the police academy you can always take over the alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives crimes by yourself. Good luck.
LOL. #47 must be an ATF agent.
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