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	<title>Comments on: Age Discrimination Laws Have Unintended Consequences</title>
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		<title>By: old and in the way</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/age-discrimination-laws-have-unintended-consequences/#comment-160089</link>
		<dc:creator>old and in the way</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=33828#comment-160089</guid>
		<description>What would a 35 year old, female chiropractor know about the realities of age discrimination?  Nada.  Her piece above is all emoting, with very few facts and little logic.  Before she opens her mouth and displays her ignorance, she should do some research.  She would learn a lot.  E.g., when she says that the laws hurt those they are intended to protect, perhaps she should take a look at some of the Latin American countries where there are no anti-discrimination laws.  In some of those countries, it&#039;s near impossible for anyone over 35 to obtain professional employment, due to a bias towards youth.  Or she could have read any website or blog regarding careers (WSJ, e.g.) and she would find that white males over 50 consistently report that they are overtly discriminated against, simply because of their age.  I never would have believed it when I was 35, but at 52, I now know it&#039;s very real.  As perhaps Jerry Garcia knew, there&#039;s a big difference between &quot;just a touch of grey&quot;, and being completely grey, especially when it comes to employment opportunities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What would a 35 year old, female chiropractor know about the realities of age discrimination?  Nada.  Her piece above is all emoting, with very few facts and little logic.  Before she opens her mouth and displays her ignorance, she should do some research.  She would learn a lot.  E.g., when she says that the laws hurt those they are intended to protect, perhaps she should take a look at some of the Latin American countries where there are no anti-discrimination laws.  In some of those countries, it&#8217;s near impossible for anyone over 35 to obtain professional employment, due to a bias towards youth.  Or she could have read any website or blog regarding careers (WSJ, e.g.) and she would find that white males over 50 consistently report that they are overtly discriminated against, simply because of their age.  I never would have believed it when I was 35, but at 52, I now know it&#8217;s very real.  As perhaps Jerry Garcia knew, there&#8217;s a big difference between &#8220;just a touch of grey&#8221;, and being completely grey, especially when it comes to employment opportunities.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: first history</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/age-discrimination-laws-have-unintended-consequences/#comment-129734</link>
		<dc:creator>first history</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:47:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=33828#comment-129734</guid>
		<description>Chuckie:

None of your da*m business.  BTW, the same goes for race and sexual harrassment laws, and all that other PC crap.  Since when has PM been  taken over by the PC crowd?  These laws impose unbelieveable costs on the American economy at time when it doesn&#039;t need it.  If you support these PC tought control laws, blog over at DailyKos and MyDD, where you can navel gaze all you want.  The rest of us will get off our butts and work to make America great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chuckie:</p>
<p>None of your da*m business.  BTW, the same goes for race and sexual harrassment laws, and all that other PC crap.  Since when has PM been  taken over by the PC crowd?  These laws impose unbelieveable costs on the American economy at time when it doesn&#8217;t need it.  If you support these PC tought control laws, blog over at DailyKos and MyDD, where you can navel gaze all you want.  The rest of us will get off our butts and work to make America great.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ProgMeister</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/age-discrimination-laws-have-unintended-consequences/#comment-128184</link>
		<dc:creator>ProgMeister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=33828#comment-128184</guid>
		<description>Hey, Melissa ...

Tell me why I should believe some little kiddie like you who couldn&#039;t make it into med school knows a damn thing about age discrimination law or lawsuits?  Next time, why don&#039;t you turn off the stupid television shows and get the kids off your head before you start writing; who knows, you might even make a coherent, evidence-based argument instead of trotting out the same tired party-line crap.  Do you have the slightest idea of how many age discrimination suits are filed each year?  Who typically wins?

&lt;b&gt;In a truly free market the smart and talented always succeed.&lt;/b&gt;

let me know when we have free markets, ok?

meanwhile, when you have nothing to say, don&#039;t blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Melissa &#8230;</p>
<p>Tell me why I should believe some little kiddie like you who couldn&#8217;t make it into med school knows a damn thing about age discrimination law or lawsuits?  Next time, why don&#8217;t you turn off the stupid television shows and get the kids off your head before you start writing; who knows, you might even make a coherent, evidence-based argument instead of trotting out the same tired party-line crap.  Do you have the slightest idea of how many age discrimination suits are filed each year?  Who typically wins?</p>
<p><b>In a truly free market the smart and talented always succeed.</b></p>
<p>let me know when we have free markets, ok?</p>
<p>meanwhile, when you have nothing to say, don&#8217;t blog.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Chuck Pelto</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/age-discrimination-laws-have-unintended-consequences/#comment-127513</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Pelto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=33828#comment-127513</guid>
		<description>TO: first history
RE: And....

....your age is &#039;what&#039;?

Regards,

Chuck(le)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TO: first history<br />
RE: And&#8230;.</p>
<p>&#8230;.your age is &#8216;what&#8217;?</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Chuck(le)</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: first history</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/age-discrimination-laws-have-unintended-consequences/#comment-127221</link>
		<dc:creator>first history</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 01:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=33828#comment-127221</guid>
		<description>I support the proposition age, race, and sex discrimination laws should be repealed.  Not only do these laws violate the freedom of association, their repeal would make the workplace truly competitive.  Businesses spend more time filling out forms, surveys, hosting investigations, etc. which can be better used to creating wealth.  

The whiners above who couldn&#039;t cut it in the business world should stop and think whether that is where they belong.  They should look into lefty non-profts and government that give a da**.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I support the proposition age, race, and sex discrimination laws should be repealed.  Not only do these laws violate the freedom of association, their repeal would make the workplace truly competitive.  Businesses spend more time filling out forms, surveys, hosting investigations, etc. which can be better used to creating wealth.  </p>
<p>The whiners above who couldn&#8217;t cut it in the business world should stop and think whether that is where they belong.  They should look into lefty non-profts and government that give a da**.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: P. Shahir</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/age-discrimination-laws-have-unintended-consequences/#comment-127126</link>
		<dc:creator>P. Shahir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 22:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=33828#comment-127126</guid>
		<description>PS re: swift formulation error* :
Elderly need greatest respect and must* be* helped towards lifequality, - specially those who have a zeal to serve !

ALL elderly deserve love and respect .
However, we must seek to realize peoples positive potentials and encourage them to be productive.
Even elderly pensioners have the right to better health assistance so they could recuperate towards productivity. Treat others as you would like to be treated.
Even people with dubious past lifestyles have a right to learn, realize, and achieve beyond shortcomings of the past. Public services and employers could gain reciprocally by encouraging and appreciating the elderly, EVEN for a few hours a week !! Good for the economy ! - positive attitude is only way in these harsh times. Encourage others, and be encouraged too !! 
Understanding is of the essence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS re: swift formulation error* :<br />
Elderly need greatest respect and must* be* helped towards lifequality, &#8211; specially those who have a zeal to serve !</p>
<p>ALL elderly deserve love and respect .<br />
However, we must seek to realize peoples positive potentials and encourage them to be productive.<br />
Even elderly pensioners have the right to better health assistance so they could recuperate towards productivity. Treat others as you would like to be treated.<br />
Even people with dubious past lifestyles have a right to learn, realize, and achieve beyond shortcomings of the past. Public services and employers could gain reciprocally by encouraging and appreciating the elderly, EVEN for a few hours a week !! Good for the economy ! &#8211; positive attitude is only way in these harsh times. Encourage others, and be encouraged too !!<br />
Understanding is of the essence.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: P. Shahir</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/age-discrimination-laws-have-unintended-consequences/#comment-127069</link>
		<dc:creator>P. Shahir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 21:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=33828#comment-127069</guid>
		<description>I remember a true incident filmatized about the Holocaust.
It was of an elderly Jew who had great dignity, character and standing for his services who was forced to wear a yellow David&#039;s star mark and with a drum hanging on his neck at his front, he was forced to beat at the drum as a signal of public shaming.
Here we had an example of horrendous discrimination - not just against a Jew, but against an Elderly, who had served whole his life serving the community.
During Nazism, all who were disabled or ill could be considered for murderous Eutanasia.
I have a long history of dubbing new words such as Islamophobia ( during the hate crimes and genocide against the MIXED Bosnian society ) . Yankeephobia or Ameriphobia were others - and yet GERIAPHOBIA or GERIPHOBIA is a favorite I interoduced years ago.

A Danish ultranationalist extremist politian Glistrup wanted to remove laws that protect against discrimination, vilification, and denigration of special groups. He claimed it was contrary to the &#039;freedom of speech&#039; - which in Danish is termed by freedom of utterance ( in contrast to way of expression or freedom of conscience ).
I wrote to parliament and underlined that freedoms can be only maintained by ensuring responsibility and respect of others, as those laws in essence are to protect ANY form of vilification or demeaning, as GERIAPHOBIA when one may say &#039;remove that old man ! &#039;  Such an expression is sign of inhumanity.
In the work place, an employer can request someone who can carry coal up a mine shaft, and lift certain machinery, while others can be required to help with meticulous planning and can be subjected to tests where human life can be at play.
It is utterly inhumane to carry out lynch populism and persecution against an eldery in unchartered tasks, specially when an applicant has proven proficiency and capable of working &#039;in tandem&#039; with others. The newer Handicap Conventions even go further to help raise dignity of the disabled so that they can be full fledged members of society.
I have looked into research that proved that hard drugs and unhealthy habits of very young people using crack coke and Ice&#039; ( - and EVEN certain medications as Paxil ) , can cause damage by causing erroneous replication of DNA strands ! 
My inference is that DNA damage due to hard drugs condoning, chemicals and bad lifestyle, was FAR WORSE than DNA errors found in healthy aging persons, men, who could have healthy children in later life. The Prophet Abraham was of a very high age when he had his first children, and even more later .... forefathers to great people !
Therefore, good striving people must be allowed to have children, so their lifestruggles be rewarded and defended, while I am frustrated over the lack of campaign attention over the abuse of hard drugs that were the core of Usama bin Ladin&#039;s fundraising in Afghanistan - AND other Jihadists who were often drugged before suicide operations. Today unfortunately, hard drugs are rendering the US economy bancrupt from the INSIDE, as children&#039;s future are jeapardized and destroyed by hard drugs. These have lead to most horrific crimes of all kinds, and unfathomable vast damages to National and World economy !!
I hope these themes could have been discussed during Presidential debates, for they are urgent non-political realities needing to be dealt with.
Elderly need greatest respect be helped towards lifequality, specially those who have a zeal to serve !
In parts of Europe, medicinal control agencies try to forbid simple supplements such as Melatonin, that are invaluable for elderly with parkinsonims, eye problems etc etc. 
They even push the elderly into hospice-like homes, and give them strong drugs.
We must all respect and remember great men and women as Helen Keller, President Roosvelt, ( President Teddy Roosvelt ) who statuated respect and dignity, and President Ronald Reagan whose age experience helped break the ice with Soviet President Gorbachev, and removed the Iron curtain !! - for without them, where would we be today ?????????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember a true incident filmatized about the Holocaust.<br />
It was of an elderly Jew who had great dignity, character and standing for his services who was forced to wear a yellow David&#8217;s star mark and with a drum hanging on his neck at his front, he was forced to beat at the drum as a signal of public shaming.<br />
Here we had an example of horrendous discrimination &#8211; not just against a Jew, but against an Elderly, who had served whole his life serving the community.<br />
During Nazism, all who were disabled or ill could be considered for murderous Eutanasia.<br />
I have a long history of dubbing new words such as Islamophobia ( during the hate crimes and genocide against the MIXED Bosnian society ) . Yankeephobia or Ameriphobia were others &#8211; and yet GERIAPHOBIA or GERIPHOBIA is a favorite I interoduced years ago.</p>
<p>A Danish ultranationalist extremist politian Glistrup wanted to remove laws that protect against discrimination, vilification, and denigration of special groups. He claimed it was contrary to the &#8216;freedom of speech&#8217; &#8211; which in Danish is termed by freedom of utterance ( in contrast to way of expression or freedom of conscience ).<br />
I wrote to parliament and underlined that freedoms can be only maintained by ensuring responsibility and respect of others, as those laws in essence are to protect ANY form of vilification or demeaning, as GERIAPHOBIA when one may say &#8216;remove that old man ! &#8216;  Such an expression is sign of inhumanity.<br />
In the work place, an employer can request someone who can carry coal up a mine shaft, and lift certain machinery, while others can be required to help with meticulous planning and can be subjected to tests where human life can be at play.<br />
It is utterly inhumane to carry out lynch populism and persecution against an eldery in unchartered tasks, specially when an applicant has proven proficiency and capable of working &#8216;in tandem&#8217; with others. The newer Handicap Conventions even go further to help raise dignity of the disabled so that they can be full fledged members of society.<br />
I have looked into research that proved that hard drugs and unhealthy habits of very young people using crack coke and Ice&#8217; ( &#8211; and EVEN certain medications as Paxil ) , can cause damage by causing erroneous replication of DNA strands !<br />
My inference is that DNA damage due to hard drugs condoning, chemicals and bad lifestyle, was FAR WORSE than DNA errors found in healthy aging persons, men, who could have healthy children in later life. The Prophet Abraham was of a very high age when he had his first children, and even more later &#8230;. forefathers to great people !<br />
Therefore, good striving people must be allowed to have children, so their lifestruggles be rewarded and defended, while I am frustrated over the lack of campaign attention over the abuse of hard drugs that were the core of Usama bin Ladin&#8217;s fundraising in Afghanistan &#8211; AND other Jihadists who were often drugged before suicide operations. Today unfortunately, hard drugs are rendering the US economy bancrupt from the INSIDE, as children&#8217;s future are jeapardized and destroyed by hard drugs. These have lead to most horrific crimes of all kinds, and unfathomable vast damages to National and World economy !!<br />
I hope these themes could have been discussed during Presidential debates, for they are urgent non-political realities needing to be dealt with.<br />
Elderly need greatest respect be helped towards lifequality, specially those who have a zeal to serve !<br />
In parts of Europe, medicinal control agencies try to forbid simple supplements such as Melatonin, that are invaluable for elderly with parkinsonims, eye problems etc etc.<br />
They even push the elderly into hospice-like homes, and give them strong drugs.<br />
We must all respect and remember great men and women as Helen Keller, President Roosvelt, ( President Teddy Roosvelt ) who statuated respect and dignity, and President Ronald Reagan whose age experience helped break the ice with Soviet President Gorbachev, and removed the Iron curtain !! &#8211; for without them, where would we be today ?????????</p>
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		<title>By: JoeC</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/age-discrimination-laws-have-unintended-consequences/#comment-125868</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=33828#comment-125868</guid>
		<description>Chuckie. Worked for HP. They had the &quot;show fairness in layoffs across the board&quot; attitude, even supported with charts and graphs showing how they weren&#039;t discriminating against my age group....but when I started asking around, all of my peers from one of the acquired companies were... wait for it...surprise! In my (50+) age group.

I had/have a peer/friend who fit that profile of &quot;replaced six months later&quot; in the same position, lower salary. His problem is he got a better paying job with better benefits somewhere else with no travel required.

When I was in my 30&#039;s I couldn&#039;t believe that a company would get rid of their most experience and loyal champions. My older peers and friends just told me &quot;wait, you&#039;ll see.&quot; So I waited in disbelief....until &quot;I saw&quot;.

So I have tried to drum into my 20-something son&#039;s heads the new attitude of &quot;Get yours while you can because the company will try and screw you out of it when you reach 50.&quot; Save now. Plan for early retirement at 50 and your next career.  Even if it DOESN&#039;T happen to them, they&#039;ll be in a much better position.

BTW, getting laid off was the best thing that happened (so far) to me. I got a much better paying job as a contractor, working from home, no travel, albeit with NO benefits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chuckie. Worked for HP. They had the &#8220;show fairness in layoffs across the board&#8221; attitude, even supported with charts and graphs showing how they weren&#8217;t discriminating against my age group&#8230;.but when I started asking around, all of my peers from one of the acquired companies were&#8230; wait for it&#8230;surprise! In my (50+) age group.</p>
<p>I had/have a peer/friend who fit that profile of &#8220;replaced six months later&#8221; in the same position, lower salary. His problem is he got a better paying job with better benefits somewhere else with no travel required.</p>
<p>When I was in my 30&#8242;s I couldn&#8217;t believe that a company would get rid of their most experience and loyal champions. My older peers and friends just told me &#8220;wait, you&#8217;ll see.&#8221; So I waited in disbelief&#8230;.until &#8220;I saw&#8221;.</p>
<p>So I have tried to drum into my 20-something son&#8217;s heads the new attitude of &#8220;Get yours while you can because the company will try and screw you out of it when you reach 50.&#8221; Save now. Plan for early retirement at 50 and your next career.  Even if it DOESN&#8217;T happen to them, they&#8217;ll be in a much better position.</p>
<p>BTW, getting laid off was the best thing that happened (so far) to me. I got a much better paying job as a contractor, working from home, no travel, albeit with NO benefits.</p>
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		<title>By: Cybergeezer</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/age-discrimination-laws-have-unintended-consequences/#comment-125374</link>
		<dc:creator>Cybergeezer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=33828#comment-125374</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;I have experienced age discrimination in many circumstances. On job interviews, one of the first comments has been &quot;How old are you?&quot;. I have called back to employers where I had a great interview, and asked what happened; I was told they thought I would be too old to keep up the pace! 
Talking with other skilled craftsman, we had much in common since, younger workers, with much less experience and skills, would criticize us for our age and lack of stamina. 
When you are skilled and experienced, you can accomplish much more with a lot less energy.
They hire individuals who show promise and can be an asset to a company; Yet, when they become that very asset, they are conspired against for replacement by a cheaper imitation.
I am retired, now, because I refused to be a subordinate to an individual (younger than my own son) whom had never supervised people before, and did not really care to acquire the skills of a good manager (and yes,more age discrimination).  Had I not retired, I would have looked for other employment or started another business. Early in my work life I had a different job every two months for about one year because I ended up not liking the employer.
In my case, I have acquired what I ultimately worked for. And kept my pride doing it.&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>I have experienced age discrimination in many circumstances. On job interviews, one of the first comments has been &#8220;How old are you?&#8221;. I have called back to employers where I had a great interview, and asked what happened; I was told they thought I would be too old to keep up the pace!<br />
Talking with other skilled craftsman, we had much in common since, younger workers, with much less experience and skills, would criticize us for our age and lack of stamina.<br />
When you are skilled and experienced, you can accomplish much more with a lot less energy.<br />
They hire individuals who show promise and can be an asset to a company; Yet, when they become that very asset, they are conspired against for replacement by a cheaper imitation.<br />
I am retired, now, because I refused to be a subordinate to an individual (younger than my own son) whom had never supervised people before, and did not really care to acquire the skills of a good manager (and yes,more age discrimination).  Had I not retired, I would have looked for other employment or started another business. Early in my work life I had a different job every two months for about one year because I ended up not liking the employer.<br />
In my case, I have acquired what I ultimately worked for. And kept my pride doing it.</b></p>
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		<title>By: Marc Malone</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/age-discrimination-laws-have-unintended-consequences/#comment-125036</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Malone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=33828#comment-125036</guid>
		<description>All here arguing in support of the laws say the same thing.  Young, fast-tracked managers make the same bad decisions.  They look at cost per body.  They have no idea which qualities make a company run best.  These valuations aren&#039;t taught in MBA classes.  So, we have regulations to protect us from their ignorance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All here arguing in support of the laws say the same thing.  Young, fast-tracked managers make the same bad decisions.  They look at cost per body.  They have no idea which qualities make a company run best.  These valuations aren&#8217;t taught in MBA classes.  So, we have regulations to protect us from their ignorance.</p>
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