After Norway Massacre, the Debate Will Go On
My friend Salim Mansur, a Muslim and a stringent critic of the travesty of multiculturalism in its current form, has been cited by the Norwegian mass murderer, Anders Behring Breivik, in his 1500-plus page manifesto. This is, Mansur jokes, his Warhol moment (personal correspondence), but he is obviously distressed by the implications of his Breivikian moment. Breivik detested multiculturalism; Mansur is profoundly skeptical of the same thing. Case closed. Mansur is not the only one who is perturbed. Islamic scholar Robert Spencer feels that, as a result of the New York Times’ defamatory article which gave wide circulation to his appearance in Breivik’s screed, he may need to start worrying about a possible attempt on his life.
But the common fear among Breivik’s literary victims, including others on the right of the political spectrum who did not figure in his almanac, is that the debate in which they are engaged may be shut down as they will be tarred by what is nothing more than accidental association. True, the left is doing its utmost to revive its own deviant version of the old Nazi practice of Sippenhaft (collective punishment, kin liability) in which (to quote Wikipedia), “relatives of persons accused of crimes against the state were held to share responsibility for their crimes and subject to arrest and sometimes execution.” The difference, of course, is that there is no sympathetic relation whatsoever between Breivik and the conservative authors he alludes to. They may have certain ideas in common — there is nothing strange or unprecedented about that — but differ categorically in the means they adopt, the use of reason, and the kind of society they envision. This indisputable fact is scanted by the left.
The practice of Sippenhaft is a mainstay of tyrannical regimes, a variation on the infamous reprisal strategy where an entire village might be liquidated for the actions of one or a few of its inhabitants — even if, in this instance, there was no agreement or intimate tie between the people involved. But whether as Sippenhaft or reprisal, the left is merely reproducing, in a displaced, perverted, and selective fashion, an approximate form of the means of deterrence. It is really a technique of discreditation, as, for example, was used to blame the right for the insanity of Jared Loughner, the Arizona killer. The device is selective because those whom the left favor are always given a bye. Thus, in the Loughner case, Sarah Palin’s “crosshairs” image was dredged up as having inspired the madman’s shooting spree, but the earlier bull’s eye map published by the Democratic Leadership Council was passed over as if it had never existed. Similarly, Barack Obama also popped up in Breivik’s turgid lucubrations but the president’s Zelig-like apparition was duly airbrushed out of the commentary since it would have clearly ruined the intended deprecatory effect.
D Solway wrote:
“Moreover, it also enjoys the verbal support of several European leaders, such as David Cameron, Nicolas Sarkozy, and Angela Merkel, for whom, according to the latter, multiculturalism is an “utter failure.”
Cameron, Sarkozy and Merkel are just paying lip service to the political winds like the dishonest slimy politicians they are. They will be the first to knee-jerk criticise Israel blabbering on about ‘cycles of violence’ and ‘disproportionate response’ when the next war in the Middle-East breaks out. Is Solway unaware of Cameron’s horribly anti-Israel (ie anti-Semitic) speech he gave in Turkey awhile back or doesn’t he think it matters at all?
Cameron, Sarkozy, Merkel are dhimmis without exception. First and foremost they are politicians and thus they are adept at a change of their duplicitous patter depending on which way the wind blows.. Cameron and Sarkozy’s governments are suppressing legitimate non-racist grass-roots opposition to multiculturalism and Islamist expansionism and supremacy; the EDL and French Defense League face govt and police harassment and denial of their democratic rights to protest and disseminate information (censored by govt and media) without censorship and gross misrepresentations (as racist and fascist organizations). Tommy Robinson (not his real name), leader of the EDL has faced arrest and had his civil rights taken away. Merkel’s govt is not far behind her UK and French counterparts.
Solway needs to look beyond the shallow hypocritical speak of lying dhimmi politicians. Israel is also a litmus test. I expect better from Solway here, dig deeper.
Dear Larry
You are right, of course–which is why I made sure to insert the adjective “verbal.” But the point I was making is not that the European troika is obviously insincere, but that they escaped being tarred with the Breivik brush. As did Obama.
David
Larry, I live in Britain and will absolutely agree with your conclusions.
Cameron’s Gaza prison camp statement was completely inexcusable and the way we are heading into major domestic conflict is dealt with by the puerile fingers in ears tactic.
Here’s the warning as we inexorably slide into a complete cave in to our minority Muslim population.
frontpagemag.com/2011/07/29/sharia-controlled-zones-sweep-uk/?utm_source=FrontPage+Magazine&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=63823900a2-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN
David,
Europe will shut down the debate on multiculturalism, because they need and in fact, want the Muslims to finally drive the Jews out from Europe and to exterminate Israel. To Europe, finishing the work of Hitler trumps everything else. Europeans believe Jews are the source of all evil in the world, and wiping us out is first, second and third on their agenda.
This is nonsense. The Nazis were a case of misfits taking over a country and good men doing nothing until too late. Millions died defeating it. Anti semitic graffitti I saw on Roman streets (which is disguised as anti Israeli but you cannot condemn an entire continent and think it is full of rabid Jew haters. Muslims are not in Europe because of Jew hatred. They are there because a consensus of big business, government services, leftist vote buying and guilt induced academic/religious self flagellants wanted muslims and multiculturalism for their own stupid/selfish reasons. The kind of people ABB blames in his document. While the rest of us sit back and allow it to happen reading the cartoons over breakfast. Anyway ABB opened the gates and I think more people will follow which in turn will create a positive feedback unless this consensus is changed.
Yes, those misfits when they saw the results of the Evian Conference in 1938 also saw the light change to yellow and when Britain closed the door to “Palestine” for Europe’s Jews in 1939 they saw it change to green.
Not only were the Jews not given a helping hand to live but they were trapped.
And how the French and other governments aided and abetted the misfits slaughter of Jews should be brought into the equation.
As for the Muslims being in Europe, well that was because of France’s megalomaniac idea of taking on American power by allying itself and the then Common Market with the Arab world, and Saudi Arabia’s investment of billions to “colonize” the continent.
“Colonize”? Yep, that’s the magic word. Muslims are in Europe because Europeans were in their lands, as colonizers. What’s gone around has come around.
Actually the muzz came to Europe before Europe ever became colonizers. You must have forgotten that Andulasia period. Ferd and Izzy actually thought it was ordained by God that they were able to drive the muzz out. So, to give thanks, they turned all of south america into spanish speaking catholics.
You must have forgotten that Andulasia period.
Re-taking Andalusia is not an uncommon idea in modern Islamist writings, characterized by a sense of entitlement, given the premise of once an Islamic land, always an Islamic land.
Which is why erecting a triumphal mosque/waqf in lower Manhattan NYC is such a crummy idea.
“Muslims are in Europe because Europeans were in their lands, as colonizers.”
Baloney. A typical leftist renegade lie.
It’s the Muslims who are the imperialists and colonialists.
Lands that rightfully belong to Jews or Christians and that are still occupied by Muslim imperialists/colonialists include Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and the rest of North Africa, and parts of Israel.
We’ve recaptured some of our lands (e.g. Spain, Sicily) that were stolen by force by the Muslims, but the struggle against Muslim imperialism and colonialism will continue until the barbaric invaders are driven out of ALL of our lands…and no amount of lefty lies are going to change what did happen and what’s going to happen.
Anti semitic graffitti I saw on Roman streets (which is disguised as anti Israeli)…
I’m getting the impression that this is a fashionable stance among the world’s self-proclaimed élites, intellectuals, whatever.
To say that they separate Jews as a religious and cultural group from the state of Israel, the implication being that Jews are OK, but that the state of Israel has to go.
This precious little distinction seems to be nothing more than a dressed up version of anti-semitism.
I think there is some truth to that..
I’ve seen a lot of “anti-Amercanism” overseas in my lifetime,
which I never quite associated with personal “anti WHITE CHRISTIAN-ism”, BUT..
Given the horrors Jews as a people have historically been subjected to, I’m fairly rigid in my intolerance for anything that smells the slightest of antisemitism….
Up to and including the purchase of cleaning supplies from a bodega, and removing a “star of david equals swastika” pictograph from the window of that very bodega. Philadelphia, 2001.
I could have been shot at of course, (and the ensuing gun battle from this CWP holder would no doubt have been called “racially motivated”) but some things simply need to be challenged, in spite of threats.
Sorry – it’s here in the US, too. Just check out our universities.
“Muslims are not in Europe because of Jew hatred.”
Correct, but you should’ve stopped there. Muslims are in Europe for the same reason that Mexicans are in the U.S. It’s where the jobs are that pay more than they could ever make at home.
Muslims are not in Europe because of Jew hatred. They are there because a consensus of big business, government services, leftist vote buying and guilt induced academic/religious self flagellants wanted muslims and multiculturalism for their own stupid/selfish reasons.
Muslims are in western Europe, in increasing numbers, as a function of Islam’s imperative to establish the Ummah in every corner of the Earth, the exact reason their numbers in Canada, in Australia, in the United States have increased.
Another motivation, escaping Islamic hellholes where they see no particular bright future for themselves. Germany’s Muslim population was imported as a function of obtaining cheap labor.
Multiculturalism has wrought only division in our nation. However, I wonder if we deport the majority of them who will work in the fields and restaurants? White people shouldn’t have to work in the fields or food service. Is there a way we can make them work for us but not have to give them any benefits?
Laws need to be followed, and the consequences are what they are…
If that means that some farms, restaurants, and construction companies have to go under, then so be it.
Plenty of struggling Applebees out there who want to sell me a meal.
More than enough (unfilled) strip malls and retail space,
too many vacant McMansion and Townhouse developments we simply dont need.
Follow the goddamn law.
If the REAL price of a head of lettuce is 7 dollars,
then so be it.
If a 3 course meal CANT be “7.95″ with a legal dishwasher on the books,
then so be it.
Wouldnt it be great (financially) if MY company could dump our 55 gallons drums into the nearest sewer…
but we arent allowed to…its the LAW, and we comply.
Somehow, we survive.
Tired of everyone else whining “they cant”
“Constitutional Conservative = Moby.
“An insidious and specialized type of left-wing troll who visits blogs and impersonates a conservative for the purpose of either spreading false rumors intended to sow dissension among conservative voters, or who purposely posts inflammatory and offensive comments for the purpose of discrediting the blog in question.
“The term is derived from the name of the liberal musician Moby, who famously suggested in February of 2004 that left-wing activists engage in this type of subterfuge: “For example, you can go on all the pro-life chat rooms and say you’re an outraged right-wing voter and that you know that George Bush drove an ex-girlfriend to an abortion clinic and paid for her to get an abortion. Then you go to an anti-immigration Web site chat room and ask, ‘What’s all this about George Bush proposing amnesty for illegal aliens?’”
“The strategy has been frequently attempted on conservative blogs, but has not been nearly as effective as Moby envisioned, since false rumors are easily debunked by fact-checking minions, and cartoonishly extreme commenters often get immediately identified as mobys and banned.”
Exactly my thought when I saw this bit of rubbish: “White people shouldn’t have to work in the fields or food service.” This is either a satire or more likely an imposter trying to portary conservatives as racist.
I’m not getting any benefits.
The West colonized the third world. They then gave independence to the third world who are now, in turn, colonizing and subjugating the West through massive immigration and stratospheric birth rates in the host nations of the West. Western nations’ ruling classes are just as corrupt and submissive to their new masters as any raja or tribal chief in the non-industrialized world of 150 years ago. They are easily cowed by threats from the invading culture and easily bought off with the promise of votes from same. Like potentates of the past, the Western elites don’t care much about their native people or culture, they simply want to do business with the invader and secure their meal ticket in the new order.
This occurred to me as I was re-watching “The Battle of Algiers” on Turner Classic Movies. The 1960′s crowds waving banners reading “Algeria for Algerians!” are now in France demanding “France for Algerians!” Who, if anyone, is trying to stop them?
Well, they did warn them.
Did nobody listen?
Former Algerian President Houari Boumedienne (1974).
“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”
“The wombs of our women will give us victory.”
Just what Mullah Krekar said in 2006, that al Qaeda loving guy Norway can’t seem to get rid of. (the PC Norwegians are afraid Krekar will be killed if they deport him to his native Iraq/Kurdistan.)
Krekar claims Islam will win
“Just look at the development within Europe, where the number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitoes,” Krekar said. “Every western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries are producing 3.5 children.”
Be careful! Mark Steyn and Maclean’s magazine were charged with a hate crime by Canadian ‘Human Rights’ Tribunal, and spent several years and 100′s of thousands of dollars to get these ‘charges’ eventually dropped. If you use this quote again, perhaps you should write:…..expanding like the M-word…
Yasser Arafat also said something to that effect. Interesting how there are so many like-minded leaders among them.
Django/
Spot on. There is A REASON the name “Quisling” became a term of supreme opprobrium..
“Like potentates of the past, the Western elites don’t care much about their native people or culture, they simply want to do business with the invader and secure their meal ticket in the new order.’
Exactly right….
“Moreover, it also enjoys the verbal support of several European leaders, such as David Cameron, Nicolas Sarkozy, and Angela Merkel, for whom, according to the latter, multiculturalism is an “utter failure.” At last report, neither Cameron, Sarkozy, nor Merkel has been denounced for sharing aspects of the Norwegian terrorist’s ideology.”
More and more European leaders should come out and admit what most people have said for years, that multiculturalism is a lie and that it does not work. The “politically correct” politicians in Europe for years have embraced the myth that multiculturalism is a success and that Muslims would assimilate into their various cultures. Bunk. Not only has that NOT happened, the problem is so bad in some countries (like Germany and France) that Muslim enclaves and neighborhoods have turned into almost mini-states within Germany and France, causing much resentment within the native-born populations in those countries.
I really think the Muslims are pushing their luck. They do not hide their hatred for the Europeans and western culture. This is how pogroms begin and if you don’t believe me just look at what happened in Bosnia and Kosovo. So if I were part of the Muslim community in Europe, I would just keep my mouth shut and be grateful for all of the many social-welfare benefits these European nations were showering on it. After all, life in Europe is a heck of a lot better than where they came from in Africa or the Middle East. And they should, for once, admit that and recognize that.
Why should they shut up? They got Pakistan out of India. They got Herzegovena out of Kosovo. They are REALLY pushing for a state inside England. They got Dearborn out of Michigan. Why should they ever give up?
You are correct that the Left and the pro-Islamic lobby (including the Muslim Brotherhood and its endless front groups) will make sure not to “let a good crisis go to waste” (in the words of Rahm Emanuel).
This is far from the first effort to shut down the counterjihad movement. We have also seen the Mo-toons controversy in Europe, the misnamed “Human Rights Commissions” in Canada and “hate speech laws” in many other places, the prosecution of Geert Wilders, Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff, and other counterjihad spokesmen in Europe, the assassination of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh, the controversy about Rev. Terry Jones and the Ground Zero Mosque protest…the list goes on.
Some of us, including myself and our blog team members, have made it our mission to work for free speech for the counterjihad movement all over the world. We will not be silenced!
We will continue to maintain that Muslim immigration is stealth jihad and we will continue to work for changes to public policy by legitimate and peaceful means.
Let’s amend that statement slightly but importantly to read,….”Stealth jihad is riding into western countries on the coat-tails of Muslim immigration.”… I don’t mean by that amendment to in any way minimize our problem here in America. The problem is exacerbated by the obviously cowed passivity of the Muslims already resident in our America, compounded and abetted by the hypocrisy of their Fifth Column-like leaders…those who so plaintively protest that they profess American standards, too.
There is a vacuum between the Muslims’/Islamists’ words and deeds.
This brings us to “Lawfare”. Our extended critical problem is that we Americans simply must recognize outwardly that our openness is being skillfully used against us at every possible opportunity.
Other countries will have to find their own voice in openly recognizing this dangerous reality.
I frequently equate this present Islamist jihad infiltration to that of Soviet Communism in America in the 1930′s and subsequent years.
What troubles me is that it took nearly seventy years for the Soviet Communistic threat to wither away. That was a mere “social experiment” compared with what Islam has accomplished by infiltrating our West since their siege of Vienna and conquests of Spain and France…..that particular tide not receeding until Tours. We must not forget that Islam has been bloodily present in our West for a long, long time now. They can have Central/West Asia as far as I’m concerned.
We simply must fight the entrenched “political correctness” here in our America.
So lets get this straight a FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIAN who HATES Muslims decides to ignore all of CHRISTS TEACHING and kill indigenous Norwegian CHILDREN. Now does that seem as strange to you as it does to me?????
Of course it is strange, the guy is strange. In one photo he is thin with shiney eyes and plastic looking skin, and in the role-playing photos he’s all beefed up and puffy.What adult puts on costumes and has photos taken ?
C’mon, he’s a whack job on steroids.
If society doesn’t want to take freedoms away from the mentally ill/drug deluded, who get all sorts of strange ideas all the time, then society will have to go to the expense and effort to be one step ahead of them.We will have to pay for their freedom one way or another.
Norway’s hubris lulled them into complacency.Of course they would like to shift the blame if they can. They don’t want to appear as if they are not deserving of the offices they hold, they want to stay in power.They don’t invest in security and rapid reaction of any sort and they want to continue to justify that-rationalize it.
“The Debate will go on.” Well that may be so but those in charge that are responsible for this mess, aren’t even participating in the debate.
The conservative argument against multiculturalism…
It’s more than an argument. In the case of Islam, it is a decision as to whether or not you bend and accommodate your culture to followers of Islam or whether or not followers of Islam adapt themselves to the mores, values and laws of your culture, without trying to change those mores, values and laws.
Since it’s obvious that Islamists throughout the world have chosen cultural conversion (erasure, really) over adaptation, it seems obvious what course free, western societies need to follow.
…at the debate in which they are engaged may be shut down as they will be tarred by what is nothing more than accidental association…The practice of Sippenhaft is a mainstay of tyrannical regimes…
Guilt by association, another way to intimidate into silence.
…an approximate form of the means of deterrence. It is really a technique of discreditation
Discredited is the NYTimes (again) with its wishful thinking/Loughner-like slant over what happened in Norway. They are immersed in political correctness. Mayor Bloomberg is the poster child, as the mosque project in lower Manhattan again goes forward.
They’re as stupid as the Sheriff in Arizona who tried to blame Palinesque rhetoric for Jared Loughner picking up weapons and slaughtering people in a shopping center.
Islamists love politically correct morons. It makes their job so much easier.
I agree with this well-written response.
I would add that the dangerous thing about the Moslem immigrant population is that Islam is a proselytizing religion; they do not want simply to practice their own beliefs, but feel obliged/justified in forcing those beliefs upon others.
Where their presence is large enough, they will ban alcohol, music concerts, and whatever else offends them. This is already happening in London.
Where they are strong enough, also, it becomes impossible _even for the authorities_ to enter their enclaves safely.
Look at the ridiculous attitude towards cartoons they don’t like: they don’t refuse to look at them (note that no one is asking them to fund them!); they attempt to kill those who created and published them.
It’s always seemed ironic to me that Europeans, paralyzed (understandably) by guilt over the Holocaust that happened on their continent, have apparently decided that they have to accommodate this outsider group at all cost.
But look at the differences between Jews and Moslems:
Yes, Jews persisted in living in enclaves (that they’d been required to live in previously), they had their own customs, language, funny clothes, etc.; but they were not interested in imposing their mores on anyone else. These were laws for them to live by, and you could join the group by conversion, but they weren’t looking for converts (much less demanding submission). They went to government schools and learned the local languages; no one had to build them public schools in which instruction was in Yiddish or concerned their own religious practice. Of course, many assimilated.
From a European perspective, we could say that the Jews looked different, were odd, etc. But, unlike the funny and different-looking Moslems of today, they didn’t harbor designs for conquest and dominance. Not one of them plotted or engaged in an especially insidious form of mass-murder perpetrated upon unsuspecting innocents.
Apart from other important issues,The matter of most urgent practicality is the abandonment of global warming pseudo speculation,and extreme earth worship,indulged in by our academic scientism dogmatists,and the exploration of the enormous energy wealth of the USA, whichmight at least give America the power and the time interval to resist islamic barbarism.Europe seems determined to abandon its heritage as the greatest cultural achiever in history.By now it seems clear that Keynesian dogma is just(as he recognised before his death)an illusory cargo cult.It is also becoming clear that abortion without seious medical reasons destroys the populations that practice it:Hence obama’s enthusiasm for it.