A Rough Arrest in Los Angeles
I have not risen far in the command structure of the Los Angeles Police Department. Now and again I regret this (on pay days, usually), but most often I am comfortable with the decision I made long ago to remain close to the rough and tumble of police work on the street. And sometimes events so arrange themselves as to provide me with even more reason to be content with my place on one of the lower rungs of the chain of command.
When I have finished my duties for the day (or night, as the case may be), I drive home to my family with little thought about what might be happening back at work. And when I return to work, whether it’s the next day or, following a vacation, weeks later, I start with a fresh batch of problems to be coped with over the course of my ten- or twelve-hour day. Having so coped, I go home again with my thoughts on my family rather than my work.
Those whose elevated rank places them behind a desk cannot be so detachedly sanguine. While they may not experience the routine physical dangers street cops do, whether behind their desks or at home or away on vacation they are forever tethered to the BlackBerries they all so ostentatiously carry, the devices that all day, every day, ring, chirp, or vibrate with the latest news from within the LAPD. That news is most often of little import, but once in a great while one of those BlackBerries will ring, chirp, or vibrate with the news that some subordinate has done something illegal, immoral, or just plain stupid, the consequences of which just might be blamed on . . . you.
Witness the case of Captain Joseph Hiltner, a 34-year veteran of the LAPD, who until very recently was the commanding officer of Foothill Division, one of the department’s 21 area stations. Capt. Hiltner today finds himself removed from his command and facing the loss of what is known in the LAPD as an “advanced paygrade.” Within the rank of captain there are three paygrades, and like all station commanding officers Hiltner occupies the highest of them. But not for long, if LAPD Chief Charlie Beck has his way.
Two patrol officers under Capt. Hiltner’s command are experiencing infamy these days, owing to their having roughed up a woman whom they had stopped for talking on her cell phone while driving, an incident that was captured on video by the security camera at a nearby restaurant. Capt. Hiltner is in no way accused of complicity in the rough treatment, nor is he accused of trying to cover it up. Rather, he is accused of a sin nearly as unpardonable: he allowed the chief of police to be embarrassed.
We’ll get to the woman’s arrest in due course, but for now let us examine Capt. Hiltner’s transgression against the good order of the LAPD. Whenever something out of the ordinary happens in the field, whether a personnel complaint, an officer-involved traffic accident, a use of force against an arrestee, or what have you, patrol officers summon a field supervisor to the scene, thus passing to the next level of command the responsibility for investigating the matter and rectifying anything that may have gone awry. If the incident is sufficiently serious, the field supervisor will notify his watch commander, who will in turn document it in his daily report and, if the situation warrants, notify his captain.
Once apprised of an incident, a captain must decide whether it rises to a level requiring notification to his own superiors, i.e. the commander and deputy chief at the bureau level. (The 21 area stations are divided among four geographic bureaus, each under the command of a deputy chief.) The deputy chief then must decide if he should notify the chief of police.
A common complaint in the LAPD is that people in positions of authority cannot or will not make decisions, preferring instead to pass the responsibility up to the next level of command. In a department of 10,000 officers, this can sometimes lead to paralysis, with too many decisions resting in too few hands. The lieutenant or captain who continually passes the buck becomes known as a pest, and worse, as a person who cannot lead. At the lower levels of command, some judgment and restraint must be exercised, some responsibility must be accepted, if the department is to function properly.
But at the same time, any supervisor worthy of the title has to recognize when he has a serious problem on his hands and take steps to correct it, among which is notifying his superiors of what has occurred. And any competent supervisor, on viewing the tape of the incident in question, would know he was looking at a very serious problem indeed. Capt. Hiltner erred on the side of not bothering his boss, a decision that has now cost him dearly.
We’ll get to the woman’s arrest in due course, but for now let us examine Capt. Hiltner’s transgression against the good order of the LAPD. Whenever something out of the ordinary happens in the field, whether a personnel complaint, an officer-involved traffic accident, a use of force against an arrestee, or what have you, patrol officers summon a field supervisor to the scene, thus passing to the next level of command the responsibility for investigating the matter and rectifying anything that may have gone awry. If the incident is sufficiently serious, the field supervisor will notify his watch commander, who will in turn document it in his daily report and, if the situation warrants, notify his captain.
Well, thank you for copying and pasting part of the column above for us.
Do you have a point?
Didn’t we just read that in the article?
My predictions:
She’s gonna sue.
She’s gonna win (big time).
The two cops are history.
The taxpayers are totally blameless, but are going to get stuck picking up the tab (as usual).
Mr. Dunphy, I suggest that you read your own article if you really want to learn why Capt. Hiltner was removed from his command. Heck, I’ll just excerpt the operative sentences:
But at the same time, any supervisor worthy of the title has to recognize when he has a serious problem on his hands and take steps to correct it, among which is notifying his superiors of what has occurred. And any competent supervisor, on viewing the tape of the incident in question, would know he was looking at a very serious problem indeed.
By your own words Capt. Hiltner is not a competent supervisor.
Should incompetent supervisors be left in command in the Dunphy World? Is there no police accountability in the Dunphy World? Do no rules apply to officers in the Dunphy World? The answer to all is “yes”.
“There may emerge some evidence that will serve to justify slamming a handcuffed woman face first to the pavement”
Seriously? Two male police officers on the scene and a much smaller female in handcuffs?
The woman’s problem was that she was “in contempt of cop”.
I’m a law and order type of guy, but the sort of cancer that these two cretins represent needs to be excised as quickly as possible. And if the younger guy is unwilling to stand-up for what’s right, then he doesn’t need to be allowed to develop into the sort of thug that his partner has become.
wow, very intellectual response. Go back to law and order and stop pretending you know what you are talking about.
My sister and brother-in-law are both LEOs. He is the police chief of a small southern town. In private company they are both quite open with the reason why they are cops. They derive pleasure from being able to use force on people.
That is the reality. Cops are not saints, both they and criminals are just different faces on the same coin.
Because your family members are unfit to be cops doesn’t mean that all, most, many or even quite a few cops are are screwed up like your relatives are. No sane person enjoys the use of force. Maybe “small, southern” plays a large part in your experience- if it implies lack of intellect and also poor training?
@Anonymous September 7, 2012 – 8:01 am
WTF?? Are you serious? It’s a legitimate comment. She (no pun intended) copped an attitude and was subjected to unnecessary treatment. What’s your point or more specifically, who buggered your pet goat?
Well, that’s why he followed it (“There may emerge some evidence that will serve to justify slamming…”) with “but no reasonable cop who views that tape can imagine it happening”.
It’s a more sober way of saying, “It’s possible the behavior may turn out to be justified — when pigs fly!”
I can’t help but notice the “fist bump” celebration the officers shared after the second body slam of the 5’4″ woman was not mention by Officer “Dunphy”.
Dunphy sympathies are with the rookie. Hmm, seems like he was being indoctrinated into LAPD’s SOP quite effectively.
I feel sorry for none except the woman who was caught up in the union pension cash grab. A cell phone ticket can exceed $500 once Cali’s gov. tacks on all their “fees”.
I heard it wasn’t a fist bump. It was one officer handing her drivers license to the other.
This is the problem with “obvious” things on videos. A snap judgement is fine if you are watching stupid pet tricks, but on anything serious you have to remember that things aren’t always what they seem at first glance. This is especially true if you can’t hear what people are saying and the people in the video aren’t the focus of the video. My first guess would be a completely unreasonable use of force, but anyone who is honest and doesn’t just have a chip on their shoulder would have to admit that it is possible that more was going on than a sadist and an innocent victim.
Personally, I’d like a law passed that if anyone does anything short of total compliance when given a lawful order by a law officer, any lawsuit regarding subsequent “brutality” is immediately dismissed.
My biggest gripe today is that people think they can do whatever they want without suffering the consequences. I’m all for “you give a cop a bad time and you get a baton up side of your head”, and no lawsuits! People need to understand that things can spiral out of control quickly, and if you’re the instigator, you’re responsible, no matter what happens. Call me an unsympathetic hard@ss, I don’t care.
I am glad you aren’t free to re write the constitution and centuries of common law to satisfy your appetite for power. The police enforce the law they don’t create it. And the people aren’t slaves nor are they convicted criminals at someone elses whim.
All the essays I read here revolve around why its ok to brutalize the citizenry. I usually begin the column with my usual bias to support the police since they have the responsibility if things go wrong. Then toward then end of the column I observe, hey, just one more unlucky citizen glad its not me.
There are plenty of mentally ill people, or people who are not all there but who can stll have good lives posing no real danger to anyone. they dont need summary brutality or murder if they dont know how to deal with cops. Most normal people dont get mad at loonies or retarded people because they know its pointless.
uh, no?
That sounds very totalitarian of you
Sounds like a case of “A Clockwork Orange”. Remember, Alex was confronted by two cops who used to be in his gang. The police often recruit the neighborhood bullies for their ranks.
Total compliance?
Innocent until proven guilty mean anything to you?
How about the idea that human beings are born with the right to Liberty, and that right isn’t granted by a cop?
What if you were an innocent man being targeted by a jerk who also happened to be a cop? Tom, I’d expect your total compliance while that cop bounced your skull off the pavement. In fact, if you didn’t say “Thank you!” each time, I think he’d be justified in shooting you where you lay.
Sounds like a great police state to me.
Don’t call yourself a conservative. You certainly aren’t a patriot.
You Blind-LAW-AND-ORDER types are the antithesis of what our Founding Fathers fought for, and are more dangerous to our liberty than the Marxists among us.
Do the rest of us a favor, Tom T. Get into Mr. Peabody’s “Wayback Machine” and head to Germany, circa 1935. The Gestapo was eagerly hiring your type.
If you don’t want to learn German, then set the controls for Chicago, 1968. Mayor Daley’s badged goons were about the same.
I suspect there is nothing hard about you at all.
Tom T said:
“Personally, I’d like a law passed that if anyone does anything short of total compliance when given a lawful order by a law officer, any lawsuit regarding subsequent “brutality” is immediately dismissed.”
I don’t think you’d like to live in that world. Really.
About thirty years ago my wife was engaged to a cop in Ohio. Long story short he was a drunk with anger issues. He beat and raped her. It was never investigated by the department, although some officers wanted to beat him after they saw her face. But the higher ups covered for him. He later shot up a bar and was removed, voluntarily, from the force. We ran a google search on him and learned he was a police chief in Texas. Amazing what you can accomplish when you are protected by the force. His name was Tom also.
I don’t agree with the actions of the officers (from my initial view). What I can tell you is that things can go from 0-100 mph during a stop. I once almost used force on a girl, and she was handcuffed. Simple arrest and she knew she’d been caught. She was totally cooperative with us (she had a puppy we took home for her). It wasn’t until we arrived at the station when she began to get aggressive. She had a razor hidden on her that was secreted on her in a way that unless you strip searched her, would you be able to find it. When I went to remove her handcuffs, she tried to slice my wrist. Luckily, I saw the blade before she had the chance.
My story is just giving some perspective on what police work is like. Random, unscripted and often dangerous. Our first goal in our line of work will always be to go home at the end of our shift. Second, is to protect and serve the citizens of LA; that includes all of the gangsters, drug dealers, pimps, and other wretches of society. We even protect those who hate us.
Make no mistake, whether you love us or hate us, you’ll call us when you need help. And whether we love you or hate you, we’ll always show up and do our job.
As for Captain Hiltner…I’m speaking from the experience of working with the guy. He’s a creep more concerned with keeping his job than leading his officers. He’s been that way for years. Knowing that, it doesn’t add up that Beck is after Hiltner for behavior that is so NOT like Hiltner. With Hiltner, almost every use of force resulted in a complaint filed from him.
I personally don’t like Hiltner. But I believe he did everything he was supposed to in this situation.
No, we don’t always “call you when we need help”. Many times we simply don’t bother with a fools’ errand. When you call 911 because a police helicopter is circling your neighborhood and using a searchlight, and you live two miles away from a detention center, and the clown on the phone tells you nothing is wrong, you don’t reach the conclusion that calling makes sense. Or when the cop comes to YOUR door to lecture YOU about a violent incident in the park behind you when YOU were the one that reported it. And this was after my wife begged me “not to get involved”. Stupidity, inertia and laziness are a terrible combination.
Blue Hen,
It sounds like you’ve had some bad experiences with Law Enforcement and I get that. “One good deed can undo multiple transgressions”…I have the belief that one good interaction with a cop can undo a lot of the damage done by cops who were unprofessional. But “call when you need help”, I was making a point, not a specific argument. In general, people call us when they need to. They should, it’s our job.
It’s our job to take care of you. Sometimes taking care of you doesn’t come with a warm smile and kind words. Sometimes it comes with harsh, unexplained words. In that case, it’s easy to get rubbed the wrong way.
I’m just trying to get people to see the big picture here. Not all cops are heroes, not all cops are good guys and not all cops are dirtbags. The dirtbags usually find themselves on borrowed time or a tight leash from their supervisor.
Most cops want to help. The countless kind deeds that are done everyday. The officers who go above and beyond to help that kid or family. Those deeds don’t get reported because the officers simply do not brag about what they do.
Lengthy time in the field can (and does) cause the police to become jaded and cynical to the point of regarding practically all “civilians” as simply criminals waiting to happen. Combine that with a short fuse made shorter by the daily frustration of dealing with real scumbags and all too many cops lose a sense of perspective. Unfortunately there is more going on here (en grosso mondo) than that. Even the best of street cops develop an institutional attitude that to even question an officer about even the slightest thing–even in the most polite way possible–is a personal affront to his authority. The better part of valor (and wisdom) is to say “Yessir, nossir” and let one’s lawyer do the questioning..
I couldn’t agree with you more on this. People fail to understand the stresses that Police continuously endure day in and day out. Video depicted a scene that only leaves everyone speculating what occurred and no real facts known.
“stresses that Police continuously endure “…………….
How unfair of us to make them choose this line of work with generous benefits and unionized protection we mere citizens will never realize.
We expect more from our troops in Afghanistan who are not so handsomely rewarded.
Yep.
I, for one, am sick and tired of bullying being excused because the bully has had a hard day.
Have to agree with all your comments. Cops are civil servants, and need to be held accountable, and should also be transparent in terms of how their organization functions.
Since they are bureaucrats with guns in my mind (with many of the same tendencies this implies) they tend to think that they have inordinate authority, and can’t seem to grasp the full meaning of “serve and protect”. These two seemed to think “dominate and harass” is their motto.
where do you think “the troops” go to work when they get out of the service ?
Come on, Jim.
What a silly, blanketed statement.
Security Forces/ MP and whatever acronyms military police go by.. most often the post-military aforementioned DO NOT go on to become law enforcement officers.
Most post-military police officers are not qualified to fast-track to the civilian law enforcement side nor wish to do the police academy.
Military cops do far different and often times a minuscule of duties their civilian counterparts engage in most instances.
Hey, got news for you.. at least 25% of LAPD are prior MP or other military service.. and yes Hiltner is an ass! Oh and story I heard is this woman offender SPIT on Ofcr and TRIED TO BITE HIM! All covered in the Use of Force report (UOF). And the Dept supervisor located the video…not the press!
So an average citizen going about his business had better knuckle under immediately when a bully cop decides to exercise excess authority? Not in this country.
Locomotive Breath
“So an average citizen going about his business had better knuckle under immediately when a bully cop decides to exercise excess authority? Not in this country.”
Huh?
“average citizen going about his (in this case, her) business?” The idiot in question was yapping on her cellphone (most likely a meaningless, unimportant conversation) while driving. Having lived in Los Angeles County and having a cellphone yapping driver completely oblivious to his or her surroundings nearly take me out on a nearly daily basis, I take exception to the going about her business comment. On top of her patently dangerous driving habits, she’s pulled over then argues and fights with authority. I can tell you what she should be doing with her cellphone but I’d like this to be posted ; )
bear in mind, there are SOME individuals who are perfectly capable of judging by the immediate circumstances whether it is safe for them to use a mobil phone whilst driving. Some are not able to at all, ever… many of those same are not even capable of safely driving, at all, ever…. yet they do. When the “no phones” laws were passed, a “least common denominator” mentality was inflicted upon us all, creating a new class of “criminals”. Is this a “just law”? Now such conduct is a “primary offense”, cops, ever pressed to fulfil their “higher callign” as revenue collectors, are now on the prowl for such funding opportunities. Is this “justice”? Does this enhance “safety”? Yes, if “safety” is merely statistical. Seems to me the collision rates continue to increase despite such stupid laws. WHY? Cops are all about watching for non-threatening minor infractions, for which a feee is assessed to the “perpetrator”, yet which do little or nothing to really enhance true safety on the road. Same as sitting at the side of the road with their adar guns, looking for a certain number on their readout to initiate yet one more fee collection. How many are thus assessed when travelling at preciesly the same speed as the other ten cars nearby? And this is “justice”? Or “:safety”? We did not learn whether this woman’s driving was unsafe, dangerous, threatening, crazy, negligent. EXCEPT that she was using her phone whilst driving. Perhaps she was pleading her ability to handle both tasks adequately, and/or her opinion (to which she is entitled) that such laws are NOT just….. so, her real “crime” was not violating the unjust (and therefor unlawful)_ command to hang up OR drive, but rather, as mentioned above, “in contempt of cop”.
Wisdom should ahve dictated a “yessir nossir” response, telling him NOTHING beyond the required information exchange (whicih the cop already has by virtue of running her number plate through the computer HE can use whilst driving….. unfair? You bet). She fails to understand that NOTHING she says can be used to exonerate her, and EVERYTHING she says can, and will, be used to exact the fee for her “transgression” when standing before the black robed tax collector.
NOTHING here excuses the coppers for playing hardball, no matter HOW nasty her words too them. THEY are not judge, jury, prosecutor, executioner, all rolled into one government costumed armed enforcer. I am glad the LAPD are taking strong action against such behaviour. If a person cannot control their emotions on the street, let them take a desk job or go flip burgers at McDonald’s, or pull shots at Charbux…….. they are NOT made of the right stuff for “law enforcement”, even os such stupid laws as this one.
The same (could) be said about people who DRINK and drive. Some can, others can’t, but all are hit with big fines if caught…where does the money go?
Those that abnormally enjoy the buzz of adrenalin rush inevitably learn ways to create their own from from normal circumstances at the expense of others required for the equation and supplied by opportunity of occasion.
What seems to be missing here is the list of insurance company names that lobbied for passage of restrictive laws that reduce their claims settlements both in and out of court and law enforcement and judicial public employees that are fully aware of both the origin of the laws and the necessary funds involved in feeding all the parasites attached to their interpretation and enforcement. The most probable result is whole state departments being controlled by information derived from insurance company sources usurping priority over public safety concern written into the legislation in effect.
Politicians responsible for enacting such restrictive laws as protection for citizens are simply causing the problems for which they pretend to have heartfelt concern while ignoring the necessity of feeding all the parasites protected by the corrupt system at citizens expense.
Rome fell previously from such elaborate democratic enterprise all in the name of public good. The attitude of their elect differed only from those of today in their strength in numbers now capable of reproducing a legislatively protected next generation of tax paid parasites while a good living parasite
becomes a rare specimen. Honor, no longer required, went out with dueling.
The fact that many if not most of the people who become police officers are small, thin skinned with giant chips on their shoulders probably contributes more to than any other reason. fallowed by the fact that their bad behavior is overlooked by fellow LEOs and the union.
Everyone needs to keep in mind if it were not for the video it would be two pigs against one civilian and she would be convicted of resisting or assault on an officer.
You want me to be sympathetic to a cop whose subordinates abused and criminally assaulted a Citizen? Bullcrap. A commander is responsible for everything his subordinates do or fail to do. Demoting him may make other gold badges more responsive to reining in their thugs. He should lose his pension.
The criminal cops should be charged and thrown into prison.
Pour encourager les autres.
What your proposal tends to encourage is the “tourists in blue” syndrome where police don’t do anything except show up for roll call. If they arrest people, especially if they chase them or get physical, they are likely to lose their job, their pension and possibly go to jail. None of those bad things will happen if they spend their shift sleeping in the patrol car parked behind an abandoned building.
vs. shaking down citizens over minor infractions which come with large fines.
Talking on a cell phone while driving is only a minor infraction if you don’t mind getting run over or rammed into by the person doing it. It’s happened to me (back when it was legal) and I was outraged, frankly…
I work in an emergency room. You can usually tell how much personal loss someone has had from drunk drivers, texting drivers or other idiots by how angry they get about the particular offense. Like most police officers I met, they still maintain professional actions despite their anger, though they might not show as much sympathy.
When I was 16, I certainly went out driving while impaired a couple of times, something I regret to this day despite having been lucky enough to have never hurt anyone. At least then, I had the inherent stupidity and ignorance of youth as an excuse.
Despite the delusions expressed by so many of the hoi poloi tax-cattle on comments threads about police news, the fact is the police isn’t here to protect, aid or serve any of them. They exist solely to protect the system itself and ensure the tax-cattle does not get to uppity and causes the wheels to go off the wagon and upset their Lords and Master’s lifestyles and profits.
The police enforces the status quo by a combination of threat of brutal coercion (up to and including lethal force) and a system of indoctrination starting from very early age which leads the mundanes to believe they are being “protected” 24/7 by a small group of the populace who wears funny costumes and has median lower average IQ, emotional control and higher aggressive tendencies than average joe schmoe.
“Personally, I’d like a law passed that if anyone does anything short of total compliance when given a lawful order by a law officer, any lawsuit regarding subsequent “brutality” is immediately dismissed.”
Me too, with the caveat that such “law” would only apply to servile tax-cattle such as yourself. So when you are being shot, or beaten into a bloody pulp by the boys in blue because they “felt threatened” that you didn’t abase before they divine presence fast enough, I and other reasonable persons can’t just pass by and ignore the show.
There is no such thing as a “lawful order”, there are opinions and requests. Of course, if these opinion and requests are backed by the threat of coercive violence in the form of a gun or club they somehow, magically turn into “laws” and “lawful orders”.
“Lengthy time in the field can (and does) cause the police to become jaded and cynical to the point of regarding practically all “civilians” as simply criminals waiting to happen. Combine that with a short fuse made shorter by the daily frustration of dealing with real scumbags and all too many cops lose a sense of perspective.”
Lengthy time in the school can (and does) cause teachers to become jaded and cynical to the point of regarding practically all youngsters as simply unruly bullies and problem youths waiting to happen. Combine that with a short fuse made shorter by the daily frustration of dealing with real scumbag kids and all too many teachers lose a sense of perspective.
Now tell me? Would you trust such a teacher to take care of your child while you are at work?
No?
So why do you trust cops suffering from mental issues with a gun?
“You want me to be sympathetic to a cop whose subordinates abused and criminally assaulted a Citizen?”
“Cop” and “Citizen” are meaningless terms. We are simply talking about two strong adult males that have abused a female. Their funny suits, hats and little metal stars on their chests are irrelevant. They should be treated no differently than any two other men found beating a woman.
“A commander (…) should lose his pension.”
He, and all of his ilk, should not even have pensions, or salaries, paid by stolen money in the first place. I’m fine with private security forces but not with criminal, tax-feeding swine.
Whoops. I was with you 100% up to this point. You are incorrect. A police officer DOES have legal authority to give orders in many circumstances. For example, traffic control. Failing to comply is a criminal offense.
As far as I can tell from the article, we are talking about ONE. The rookie didn’t do anything wrong.
The fist bump after the body slam and the fact that he stood by his partner in the report says he is just as guilty.
I believe that if you are driving the getaway car for the bank robery where the teller is shot and killed you will be charged with murder even though you never stepped foot in the bank.
The fist bump after the body slam and the fact that he stood by his partner in the report says he is just as guilty.
Correct. In a perfect world (where cops are held civilly and criminally accountable for their misconduct, and the bad apples are weeded out) the rookie would be charged as an accessory or accomplice.
I believe that if you are driving the getaway car for the bank robery where the teller is shot and killed you will be charged with murder even though you never stepped foot in the bank.
Correct again. And in quite a few states you will be charged with murder even if your pal the bank robber is killed (by an armed citizen inside the bank, or a cop outside the bank). All that matters is that you took part in a crime resulting in loss of life. Whose life was lost is irrelevant.
The rookie didn’t do anything wrong? He stood by while his partner brutalized a woman whom they had arrested. She was in cuffs. She was a prisoner. Even the Geneva Conventions forbid such treatment of POW’s, and it does not even presume innocence.
“I don’t know any of the officers involved, but my sympathies are with the rookie, who has been out of the academy only three or four months and as such, was all but powerless to prevent his tenured partner from losing his temper and placing both their jobs in jeopardy.”
All but powerless? A bit of pepper spray on his partner was in order, or a gun to the guy’s head. He has a duty to protect his prisoner. His partner was committing a crime. He should have arrested his partner.
Let’s take a deep breath here.
Municipalities hire from the human race. Unfortunately, some hires will act human and commit error or malfeasance. The overwhelming majority do not. Not unlike the private sector. Yes, the idiot woman should have been arrested with no more force than neccessary to effect the arrest. If the cops involved are to be fired, so be it. They are held to higher standard, as it should be. Cops do a job that most of you wouldn’t or couldn’t fathom, have the capability or wherewithall to deal with on a daily basis, let alone for one shift. To add insult to injury, we live in a more violent society yet the management of that very society has become more emasculated. Enjoy dealing with that fact.
Police have enormous power over law-abiding citizens. They have ability to detain me, beat me up, throw me in jail, fine me, charge me with crimes causing me spending enormous amount of money and time to defend myself and screwing up my record that would prevent me, for example, hold a job in financial sector, get security clearance or work with children forever – for the rest of my life.
They can also get me convicted and send me to prison for things like resisting arrest and assaulting a police officer on your simple say so.
They can kill me with almost complete impunity.
With very few exceptions, police always have benefit of the doubt. Police officers is almost never convicted, even with overwhelming video evidence. They almost never apologize, even when their fault is obvious.
That is why police officers should be held to highest standards. I mean they must be for all practical purposes be saints. They should NEVER loose their cool. Anyone who is not should be severely punished and kicked out of the force. Why is it that this almost never happen?
Why is it that embarrassing chief of police is fireable offense, while beating the crap of defenseless woman is not (i.e. justifiable use of police force)?
If only cops would realize that “the camera is always on” just like you treat a gun as if it as always loaded.
They would fear for their pensions a bit more and not be so quick to go physical on people.
Yeah, I know it’s not all cops and that it is a lousy job but they picked it. I was smart enough to pick another line of work so that I didn’t become one of the abusers.
“but my sympathies are with the rookie….all but powerless to prevent his…partner from losing his temper and placing both their jobs in jeopardy. …I can recall being a rookie and working with senior officers whose fuses were shorter than they should have been, and I can recall finishing my shift…thankful that they hadn’t done anything that would have had me fired or indicted”
Which is exactly why I left my Department after just 2 years…some of us just cant stomach the a**holes very well…I already had 8 years in The Corps was still in the Reserve, older than most of my contemporaries on the force when I realized the Disciplined Manly career I expected to find (continue?) by joining another “Quasi-military” environment, was simply not to be. Too many chip-shouldered punks and unstable bullies, and not enough men.
It sure wasn’t the Corps. More like Union Bums, with guns.
An entitlement mentality, coupled with the immature thin skinned anger of a teenager, lashing out over absolute, unnecessary nonsense. Bite your tongue, let it go, look away…how long can you do that?
The BEST was when working later for an Armed Alarm Response Company…..As a courtesy, we contacted Local PD when on the premises at night to advise of our (armed) presence inside the building…sometimes they would also respond, often not….it depended, I soon realized, on what was INSIDE.
One of our Customers was a supplier of High End sportswear…mostly thick heavy sweaters and jerseys with college logo, sports teams etc…Retail was $75- $100.00 apiece. Turns out I knew the responding officer, and he proceeded to load up a box of Penn State, Eagles, and Steelers hoodies and sweaters “for the guys”, figuring it would be OK since we worked together before I left the department.…and he actually got PISSY with me when I told him to drop it or I’d call his Supervisor…
”aw, come ON dude….Youre STILL an asshole, aren’t you?” he says
” Listen F*ck-tard, I’m here to PREVENT my customer from getting robbed…they PAY me to respond and secure their building, how the hell can I let you just walk out with their stuff? Youre F*cking up my companies reputation AND my job security by stealing sh*t on my call, do you GET that!?”
A shouting match ensues, I’m called a “punk” a “pussy” and a “boyscout”, and threatened with ARREST by a uniformed officer, on duty, who thought it was his RIGHT to take things that weren’t his, because “who’s ever gonna know?”
Yeah, his new partner was humiliated and he apologized to me. He walked away with that same angry confused “what the f*ck do I do NOW” look, the one that I used to have, when I worked with this jerk and many others just like him.
Congrats to you Dunphy, for being able to stomach being part of an organization like THAT..
I couldn’t, and I’m PROUD of it.
“It sure wasn’t the Corps.”
Right. Because there are never abuses, crimes, etc commited by Marines. What in the Lords name are you smoking????
Again, hiring from the human races invites humans. Most will do the jobs fine while a minority won’t. Doesn’t matter the profession.
Get a grip.
I cant say I ever saw any “abuses or crimes” systemically committed while I was in The Corps (8 active, 12 reserve). Might have happened elsewhere, I dunno, but nothing jumps out at me from my experiences
I CAN say, I saw plenty of mickey-mouse horseshit elevated to “resisting arrest” because someone was in the mood to get rough on ANYBODY they could find….
Heres one for ya’
Cops ex wife is Go-Go dancing. He’s catching hell from the boys. Goes to where she’s working in civies, off duty, and pistol whips the poor guy who happened to be tipping her at that moment.
Manger calls the cops, the respond, see its “their buddy” who they’ve been ribbing so hard, and cook-up an ASSAULT charge on the bloodied up guy with broken teeth.
The poor dude now has a FELONY conviction, does TIME, which destroyed his job and his family.
And the cops involved snicker about it.
So, no actually, I never, ever saw anything in 20 years in The Corps, that made me as sick and ashamed as what I saw in my limited “Career” in Law Enforcement.
Nothing even close.
Root. What was the result of your reporting what really happened to the guy wrongly convicted? Since you are reporting it to us as fact, you must have been there and seen it.
He’s serving time for a 148 ? Get real.
Most cops I’ve met are punks. If they didn’t have the badge and the force it represents, they’d probably be a bunch of steroid gobbling gym rats with no self esteem and damn little brain power. I wish no malice towards the police but, like in the Aurora CO shooting, did the LEO’s enter the building to try and stop that that nutcase? No, they waited outside until the shooting stopped. Courage used to be attributed to the boys in blue. Now, they are merely bureaucrats with guns and you are guilty until proven innocent.
Wrong premise. Cops are NOT representative of society as a whole, and there is a LOT more going on than just human fallibility.
Unfortunately, being a police officer appeals to certain personality types. Some of these are good. Some are most decidedly NOT. So there is a filtering process going into law enforcement that changes the demographic, resulting in a higher percentage of bully types than in the general population.
On top of this, some of these people rise into management, resulting (sometimes) in whole departments where there is a culture of bullying. I don’t know what LAPD is like now, but when Bill Gates was running it, the LAPD was known for its brutality, even among cops in other agencies in the area. That was Gates’ personality (and values) being reflected in the department as a whole.
But didn’t Bill Gates do great things regarding updating the software throughout the department? Although it did seem to favor one company up in Redmond when he did.
(I think you mean Daryl Gates.)
And now that my little snark is out of the way, I do see surprisingly little sympathy for the rookie here. I don’t know the details here, and the detainee’s testimony would be interesting, but is there anyone here who believes for a moment that if they are a rookie of two or three months in such a situation, that they are in any way in a place to intervene on a 22 year veteran? (Don’t kid yourself as a keyboard hero, put yourself in the real world.) This very situation, handled properly by the LAPD, could actually make him a better cop, and certainly make him damn clear on where the red lines are drawn, and why he should assume for his next 22 years that he is being videotaped 24 hours a day, so act accordingly.
But he will be thrown to the wolves just for being assigned to an irresponsible partner, of course, and that seems rather unfair.
@ The Root 83 – So this officer was going to steal a bunch of high end sweat shirts and you still didn’t report him to his supervisor or make a complaint to IA just because he put the stuff back? Wow! you’re such a better human being than the author of this article and the officers you condem. It sounds like instead of staying in the department and trying to make it better you just quit. Because it doesn’t sound like your moral courage got any stronger after you left the department. It is so much easier to criticize from the outside than to do something about it from the inside. As a 26 year veteran of a large Southern California police department and former field supervisor I don’t like to see any cop lose his job, especially over bad judgement or a temper he or she cannot control, but I absolutely would never tolerate a thief or criminal in the uniform. This job is hard enough without tolerating criminals amongst us. It just makes it easier for moral cowards like yourself to attack and criticize all officers and the profession.
Sure Bob…
Every single “he said, she said” = an unresolvable 50/50 without corroboration, and you know it. So who’s gonna back me up, that new kid?
Drag him into career suicide? Make HIM confirm or deny what happened?
Quess what, reporting the incident was HIS choice, and guess what, he didnt take it.
Its rock and a hard place tough being a “snitch”….if you make JUST ONE formal allegation against a fellow officer, your career (like mine) will pretty much be over, and you know that, Bob.
The Chiefs dont f*cking care, all they want is a low friction ride to a pension…theyre never gonna care what happened, theyre only pissed off because somebody SAW it, and you know that, too.
I didn’t see any moral cowardice on Root of 83′s part, but calling someone a “moral coward” from a distance just might qualify.
Stealing should be a firing offense, but you wouldn’t like to see a cop lose his job over a temper he can’t control?
Root, truth time. I have a question based on your comments on this and other threads.
You didn’t make probation did you? YES, I know you were a Marine and tough as nails and with the ethics of a saint but; you chose not to take action when your partners acted wrongly and officers committed crimes in front of you while you were a security guard. Instead you got into a shouting match with this miscreant. Good job, bet that solved the problem.
You told Bob that it was a He said she said, so you did nothing because there could be no resolution. Are you telling us that this warehouse of high end sports stuff had no video? OK, sure, happens all the time.
You failed to address the issue; his department was not put on notice that they might have 2 problem ofcrs and you are satisfied with just engaging in a shouting match with someone from your old department. Your concern for his partner is touching, but ethically challenged. The partner is just as guilty as the Ofcr doing the stealing, it is his duty to report it as it was yours, as an employee of the security company, to report the attempt to both your company and the PD.
Never mind the question I had for you, I got the answer in your response to Bob.
The other thing is you are going to see top officials in big city polices departments, who have to be political to survive, want to be proactive about knowing and controlling incidents like this, because in the era of cellphone cameras, let alone store security cameras, if you don’t control the narrative, the people who oppose you will.
Look at the all-out assault on NYPD’s Stop-and-Frisk policing — not just Democratic politicians by the Associated Press and the New York Times made eliminating S&F a holy quest earlier this year, despite the fact it’s been part of the reason why that city’s crime stats have plunged since the David Dinkins era of the early 1990s. Compare that to what’s going on right now under Rahm Emanuel with the Chicago PD and then remember — there’s a huge contingent of activists out there who want Emanuel’s Chicago-style of policing to be the model for all big city departments, not the more pro-active style that came out of the ‘broken windows’ theory.
When you have incidents like the Jordan one in Los Angeles, and then you let the media control the narrative by breaking it to the public first, before the top LAPD officials do, you’re just setting yourself up to be emasculated. It’s certainly not fair to the rookie cop here, but the growth of video access and the instantaneous spread of information via the Internet once it gets out means it’s far easier to create a large-scale media firestorm today than it was even 10-15 years ago.
Webmaster! Try to keep ads from covering text. It annoys and loses you readers.
“There may emerge some evidence that will serve to justify slamming a handcuffed woman face first to the pavement, but no reasonable cop who views that tape can imagine it happening.”
That video is poor quality, but it appears that:
They bring her to the police car and place her by the rear door.
The senior officer turns to open the rear door.
He doesn’t, and instead turns and slams her to the ground.
Did she do something to prevent him from opening the door?
It possibly looks like she tried to knee him as he was reaching for the door – that could be her leg rising and hitting his, him cringing a bit from it, then regaining his balance, grabbing her, and slamming her to the ground.
I’m not sure if that would fully justify a slam like that, but it would explain a loss of control.
“but it would explain a loss of control”
Ummm…no, it would not.
Try having some pathetically stupid and unreasonable R.O.E’s get friends killed, and then just suck it up the next day when you feel like shooting all those “rock and bottle throwers” that taunt you and cheer the guys who did it.
Restraint.
Control.
Composure.
Even WHEN youre having a REALLY bad day.
Its called “professionalism” and with the near 6 figure salaries Cops get with OT these days, we have a right to expect some.
Smacking around a smaller, weaker, RESTRAINED person just because you “can”, is inexcusable.
No matter WHAT she said, or did.
On the positive side, if the brutalized women is white (as I believe she is), then perhaps it will reassure people of color that cops who brutalize minorities are not necessarily exhibiting racism.
Having had my fair share of police encounters, both here and overseas, what I have learned is that the guys with the guns make the rules. They always win in the short-term. I learned early on to keep quiet, be respectful (regardless of their attitude) and don’t argue.
Most of the police I have encountered are good people, yet many of them are hesitant to weed out their own bad apples. Not good.
Guys, the article is about the Captain. He embarrassed the Chief by not filing a report. The article doesn’t go into enough detail about what happened after the incident. Was the Captain handling it in house? Did he discipline the officer? Was there other circumstances that caused the officer to react? Was this the first complaint against that officer? Someone else mentioned the Marines, have you forgotten about “office hours”? This is where the officer in charge handles the offense at the company level instead of sending the person up for court martial and totally ruining his life for what could be a minor offense.
As Mr. Dempsey says, the Chief got embarrassed because the Captain didn’t file a report and the Chief got called on it. If the Captain had just sent in a report of what happened and what he was doing about it that would have been the end of it. The chief would have had an idea what was going on and could have had an answer for the reporter without having to get involved himself. On the other hand, if it looked like it was going to turn into something more, the Chief,or anyone in between, could have decided to upgrade it and call in IA to investigate. Then again, the Captain may have made a report and someone in between didn’t think it was important enough to send on. I don’t know what the policy is on something like this but it looks like it could just be a paperwork foul up more than anything. I would be interested in hearing the rest of this story though.
The Captain violated the Employee’s First Commandment – “Thou shalt now allow thy supervisor to be blindsided”.
All he needed to do is send an FYI memo mentioning the video, about which Dunphy states And any competent supervisor, on viewing the tape of the incident in question, would know he was looking at a very serious problem indeed, and stating that no action is required as the incident is being handled in accordance with Departmental Policy. Without such a memo it really looks like a case of “what my boss doesn’t know won’t hurt me”.
A good employee never lets the boss get blindsided by bad news. Had the memo been sent then the Chief could have responded “Yes, I’m aware of the incident. The video looks bad out of context, the officers involved have been placed on leave, and the incident is under full review per existing Department Policy” and the story gets very little coverage. The people who see the story say “Yeah that looks bad, maybe something happened but there’s an investigation”; now the people are saying “WTF?!?! It’s a cover-up! Am I next?”
By not keeping his bosses informed Captain Hiltner turned a problem into a disaster. That is not acceptable in any organization.
It’s interesting reading all the responses over body slamming a handcuffed female. I wonder if she spit in the officer’s face? I’ve observed that some people seem to think that once they’re handcuffed they’re home free to spit without any consequences. Au contraire! Of course, even after 40 years of modern women’s liberation touting the equal treatment of women along with the men, it’s curious how manhandling the combative female can still leave a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. I wonder if the 22 year veteran of equal gender integration in the ranks and other assorted department politics merely acted out that feminist egalitarian ideal? The unthinking brute!
Got any facts about the case in question Don? You’ve, “observed that some people seem to think that once they’re handcuffed they’re home free to spit without any consequences.” When would that be Don? On the job?
No, no new facts. Yeah, on the job. Hey, if you’re cuffed and you spit in my face, the cuffs obviously are not working and I get to knock your dick in the dirt, flex cuff your ankles, and hog tie your ass to keep you from assaulting me. I find it difficult for A holes like you to spit while your nose is kissing the dirt. But don’t take my words for it. Check it out. Get your self arrested and handcuffed. Spit in the officers face. Here’s thinking of you Charlie boy. Enjoy.
I’ve never been arrested in my life Don. I’m just one of the poor law abiding, tax paying saps who gets to fund it all. I appreciate you exposing your knee jerk hostility for the world to see. You are now losing the support of Whites too. Whatever will you do when all the public is against you? Oh, that’s right. You already described it. Your parents must be proud.
Well, don’t let me keep you from spiking your pension, and dreaming about that retirement. Get it while the getting’s good. Those municipal bankruptcies aren’t gonna help you pay for the new boat!
You know we in the US love looking down our noses at countries like Egypt or Syria. I don’t see any difference in how the populace are viewed by either the police or gov. Don’t forget how that turned out Don.
Why don’t you pepper spray him, taze him, and then, just to make sure he will not spit anymore, shoot him in the face? That’ll teach him not to mess with you, big strong police officer with gun and almost unlimited power, including power to charge him with crime and essentially screw his life forever.
Reminds me of Cartman’s “Respect my authorita!” episode.
Well, Udar and Charlie Manson (Nice to know you’re not the murdering by proxy Charlie Manson hanging out in the California Department of Corrections), it’s really very simple. It’s called reasonable escalation of force. Just because someone spits in your face while they’re handcuffed doesn’t mean you can shoot them in the face. That’s a definite no no, Udar. But I can further forcefully restrain them to prevent further spiting so as not to be exposed to, say the HIV virus (but we know you’re straight Udar, so that wouldn’t be an issue, hey?). But if you two morons choose to view that restraining procedure as somehow indicative of the Fascist state, then you should be consoled by the fact that you two apparently voted for that state of affairs. And somehow I suspect if someone was to spit in each of your faces you two would be equally as forceful in your response without any guilty thoughts of acting fascist while defending yourself: unless of course you two are really practicing pacifists? Have a nice day.
don,
you say:
“But if you two morons choose to view that restraining procedure as somehow indicative of the Fascist state”
No, I do not choose to view it that way. You, by your choice of words made it to be that. You do not sound like a cool professional, entrusted with almost unlimited power and great responsibility. You sound like a petty, vindictive little man who will screw up people lives just because it makes you feel better. If you really a police officer, then you should be kicked out of the force forever.
And as far as this statement of yours:
“And somehow I suspect if someone was to spit in each of your faces you two would be equally as forceful in your response without any guilty thoughts of acting fascist while defending yourself”
There is a difference between me and you – at the end of this commotion, I do not get to put the guy who spit in my face in jail. I do not get to have him convicted of assault. And I will not get to have jury, who will be putting the other guy in prison for a few years, believing my version of events over his.
You have full power of the state on your side. I do not. That is, together with your words above, what makes you a little fascist that you are.
After listening to years of SOCAL news and talk radio, all I can say is that I am glad I don’t live there. I’m a law and order guy, but it appears many of the departments are merely gangs with guns. They view the public as the enemy. Here’s two exceptionally egregious cases.
1. Douglas Zerby. Long Beach PD guns down an intoxicated man sitting on friends porch waiting for a ride home. He’s playing with a hose nozzle. LBPD never announces their presence, but blasts him with 20+ bullets. No charges ever filed against officers, no officer names ever released.
2. Kelly Thomas. Fullerton PD beats a homeless man to death in front of a large group of citizens waiting for buses. After crushing in his face with the end of a large taser and “knee drops”. Six cops asphyxiate the man by sitting on him. When EMT shows up the cops are more concerned with their minor scratches, than the dying man in a pool of blood. FPD tries to cover it up – snatching cameras, lying to the stenographer press at the OC Register, etc.
Don’t try to cut their pensions down to something affordable. They will try to destroy you. Mayor Jim Righeimer of Costa Mesa was set up by the law firm many of the cop unions use.
http://watchdog.org/54363/greenhut-police-unions-cross-line-while-bullying-public-officials/
One need only look at the pseudonym you chose to know, Southern California is grateful that an obvious societal pillar, such as yourself lives elsewhere. NERD ALERT!!!!!
So “Ed”, which PD do you work for?
The same one that put your hero in prison for the rest of his worthless life.
Not justifying what the Officer did, it doesn’t pass the initial observation. But quite a few of us as a society have forgotten, due to the PC imperative crowd, that there are ramifications to your actions, or inaction’s. This nurse is no murderous thug, but demonstratively has an alligator mouth with a parakeet ass. Her parents clearly didn’t raise her right in the first place, evident by the running of her pie-hole at the officers for doing their job. The necessity to put her in handcuffs was due to her uncivilized, aggressive, unstable actions, failure to follow commands and argumentative diatribe toward the officers. All that for having the audacity to legally stop and cite her for her egregious vehicle code violations. How dare they. But clearly her pie-hole writes checks that her body cannot cash. Idiots who run their mouths at the Police, only do so because in MOST situations, we follow the law and don’t give the offensive buffoon a mouth full of teeth, and an opportunity to use the free dental plan the City offers. There’s a reason idiots like this nurse and people who think like her, don’t start piping off at the mouth to hardened criminals, because they would get their tail kicked like it’s a sport. And I’m not defending the Officers actions, but we hire from the human race, and if you’re stressed out and act like a savage during an encounter with law enforcement, unfortunately you may run into an officer who’s also stressed out and not dealing with it properly. You roll the dice! Again, people need to understand, that there are ramifications for their actions….. And some of those ramifications HURT! Unfortunately, this tarts bank account will probably be filled soon, and then she’ll boo hooo hoo, about how she was a victim, when in reality, she should have used the judicial system like civilized people do, instead she chose to put her hand in the fire. And the police officer that gave her, her comeuppance, should have taken 3 deep breaths and moved on after getting her to sign the ticket. 2 inappropriate actions will ow cost the tax payers greatly.
My next door neighbor died. The next day his house was broken into and everything of value was taken and the place ransacked. I noticed the break-in because it was on the back of the house, both patio doors were smashed.
I reported the break-in to the local police department and was on-hand when they arrived. The cops were extremely annoyed that I had called them, did a cursory look at the smashed doors then asked me if I was the owner. They did not write a report because in their words “since you aren’t the owner, then you can’t confirm that anything was stolen”.
This is the sort of behavior that you can expect from those who “serve and protect”. They couldn’t hold a job in any other profession.
I have to empathize with the officers and maybe even with the Captain. I once had to slam a woman down on the ground in the performance of my duty, in front of a lot of citizens. I was working an L-car (one-man unit) as a P-2 on day watch in North Hollywood. She had committed a traffic violation (speeding at a high rate of speed) and was difficult to pull over. When she finally did stop in front of a bank, I approached the driver’s side and asked her for her driver’s license. She told me to go to hell and also told me to get f****d! As I went back to my patrol car to radio for a backup, she exited her vehicle and took up a karate stance on the sidewalk. Before I could get the words out for her to stop, she successfully karate-kicked me through the air and hit me squarely in the mouth and split my lip. Mind you, I was stunned. She was about five feet tall and I am 6’4″. Also, she happened to be an African-American and I am white. Unknown to me at the time, besides being a Black Belt, she was wanted on a felony warrant, and had a extensive record of fighting with cops. As I recovered from the blow I wondered how I was going to place her into custody without looking like I was beating up a poor little woman. In those milli-seconds, she wound up again and tried to kick me in the chest but I was lucky this time and caught her leg, spun her around, knocked her to the ground, then handcuffed her and struggled to get her in the back seat of the police car while she was spitting, kicking, and screaming in my face. All this occurred in a matter of seconds. I was bleeding and sore and scuffed up and she was too. She was MT’d and booked. Had there been a security camera it may have portrayed me as doing wrong? Fortunately, I had over 10 witnesses who stepped forward and all of their stories matched mine and some wondered why I did not shoot her. Later, while she sat in the holding cell, she bragged to the Watch Commander about kicking my ass. She was convicted and sent to prison. There was no lawsuit, no news crew and no story. As far as I know, my Captain never reported anything to his higher ups. It may come to light that the officer lost his balance while trying to get her in the car and that’s why she fell. Who knows? The final investigation will come up with the answer! I really get disappointed when higher-ups jump the gun just to answer the media’s questions. Somehow along the way we give the press way too much credit and feel obligated to them. I was always taught to say, “We will get back to you as soon as we can.”
Nothing will happen to the two police officers and the Capt. will just apologize and maybe retire.
Well we all know that stuff rolls downhill. I’ve not seen the tapes or anything else–just Dunphy’s version of events. I don’t know if the lady had a mouth on her as one of the commenters suggests.
But whenever the chief in a 10,000 man (or person) organization loses face, some poor sumbitch down below (or maybe several such) is going to feel some pain–the innocent along with the guilty.
Life Lesson 101
It has been this way forever.
When Governor Reagan’s car was stopped, and the idiot officer who stopped them (1975–Jimmy Carter’ gift of a 55 MPH speed limit) only told his dispatch, but was monitored on scanners. The Captain in Santa Barbara was in deep do–do because he didn’t know about the stop
Radar,
Sorry but as much as I dislike Carter, he can’t take the blame for that one. He was inaugurated in 77. The 55 MPH speed limit was enacted 73.
There is nowhere in the story that Mr. Dunphy supports the actions of either the subject officers or their commanding officer. He simply paints an accurate picture of life in just about any big city police department in the U.S. from the perspective of a decent cop. As a member of the N.Y.P.D for 25 years Officer (or sergeant ?) Dunphy’s words mirrored my own observations and frustrations.
Cops do not want to arrest you because it makes more work for them. Do not mess with them and they will not mess with you. You do not want to go to jail, it stinks.
LAPD officers are getting smaller and weaker. Height and strenght requirements must have been lowered to accomodate asians and women.
CHP must be on a lesbian hiring binge. Lots of big fat lesbian CHP officers. Must have gotten rid of fitness requirements.
I drive a primer gray Toyota Camry and get pulled over alot for imaginary violations. Officers run my CDL and always let me go — no warrants or violations. It is not worth proving a point with them. Cops despite their drawbacks make civiliaztion possible.
Years ago I knew a fellow who had briefly worked in LAPD. I don’t know for certain why he was there for only a short period, but I always figured that his being a functioning alcoholic probably had something to do with his not being a cop any more. By the time I knew him he’d been sober for more than a decade…
Anyway, he’s telling me about his time as a cop. This was during the Viet Nam era (he was a USMC vet) and he and his much older partner are patrolling somewhere in Watts, several years after the riots. They pull up to an interesection, and looking down the cross-street to their right they can see a group of black men standing under a stop sign, talking. My friend was riding shotgun; his partner, the senior officer, is driving. The senior officer pulls his revolver, aims right in front of my friend’s face, and shoots…the stop sign, which wobbles back and forth from the impact of the bullet. “These people,” he says, “You just have to know how to deal with them.” My friend said his ears were ringing for the rest of the shift. There was no incident report or anything as far as I know. My friend said the guys hanging out scattered in all directions immediately, of course, which apparently was the guy’s intent.
That was back in the bad old days. Now they just beat someone up occasionally. In a few more years close curcuit TV cameras for security will be everywhere, and they’ll have to find another way to get into trouble…
Wake the hell up people! Officers risk their lives everyday and you are clueless. CHP Youngstrom was shot to death on a traffic stop this week. http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaking-news/ci_21493589/chp-officer-slaying-highlights-routine-risk-facing-road
A 24 yr robbery convict who escaped from jail shot a Deputy in El Monte last Saturday, a Officer in Riverside was stabbed trying to subdue a mental woman last Sunday. Remember LAPD Officer Jenkins was helping serve a warrant and was shot in the face by a suspect? There was another video beating of an Officer a couple years ago. Low and behold the public didn’t see the entire version just the edited copy the suspect wanted out there. The ENTIRE version showed the suspect trying to grapple the Officer’s gun. Before I decide like some of you have I want to hear exactly what this woman was saying with audio. Traffic stops are some of the most dangerous and if you’ve been in a car accident because someone was talking on their phone you wouldn’t be complaining like I have. Intelligent people in our City support their officers. They know there are hundreds of good Officers who risk their lives and a handful of bad cops who embarrass the dept. The good cops want those guys GONE if found guilty.
Sorry but but take your badge licking only “handful of bad cops” line and stick it. If it was only a few bad cops they would be gotten rid of or given assignments to minimize their interactions with the public. however it is the acquiescence of the so called “good officers” which allows the the abuse and criminal activity of those bad cops to continue. If you watch your partner beat someone down and the cover for him you are no longer a good cop. So I must conclude that there are no good cops.
Like I said “INTELLIGENT PEOPLE
Being sheeple and blindly supporting police doesn’t make them intelligent.
Police have gone to court to prove they have no obligation to protect the public.
Police officers are granted personnel immunity from civil lawsuits.
Police are either unable or unwilling to clean up their own ranks.
Police spend most of their time acting in the name of revenue enhancement.
Police rarely stop crime they show up after the fact.
Police even with video evidence are almost never held accountable.
Now as the badge licker you are pleas explain why it is when an off duty pig (Sgt. David Clifford) sucker punches a guy (Brain Vander Lee) and damn near kills him, pigs rally to support him when he goes to court?
You have your facts wrong.
Police officers are sued civilly and are named as defendants personally, even when they are acting in the line of duty and numerous people (both within and outside the department) have concluded the officers actions were justified.
Police officers who are found to have acted outside department regulations are held accountable. Not only that, they are held to higher standards than you or I. If they are found to have behaved in a way that is unbecoming of a police officer, even while off duty, they will also be held accountable.
What other profession do you know of (aside from military) that men and women are asked to walk into dangerous situations, put their lives on the line for the good of others, and publicly admonished when the wrong doers get hurt?
I hope you or a loved one never needs the assistance of the “pigs” as you so rudely call them.
Gverdi,
Obviously just writing a post doesn’t make one intelligent either.
Where on earth did you come up with the police went to court to prove they have no obligation to protect the public?
Anonymous answered your immunity and not being held accountable idiocy, and in addition to the Department holding cops accountable you have the Los Angeles Times who rarely, if ever, see a police action they like.
Street cops really don’t care about “revenue enhancement”. People seem to think that there is a ton of money to be made from tickets. Stop and think about how many people it takes to process one ticket, what they are paid and how much the fine is on the ticket. The City, County and State all get a share of the fine so in the end, the ticket is not such a good revenue enhancement and quite often is a loss for the agencies involvers.
Not stopping crime, showing up after the fact. Shows you how effective the police actually are. It takes a pretty stupid criminal to do the crime in the presence of a cop, maybe your point should be that we need lots more cops so as to have more presence and therefore less crime.
Not being held accountable, even with video? Tell that to the guys involved King case. They got tried twice in court and innumerable times on T. V. and in the press. The second trial in court got them sent to prison for something that never would have happened if King had not been dusted and the consent decree had not taken away the bar arm control hold.
As to the Off Duty Officer punching some guy and his friends supporting him when it went to court, what’s your problem with that? I don’t know the particulars of this case and given your lack of accuracy in your other statements I am not accepting your “sucker punch” description. Are his friends not supposed to support him? He was off duty and acting as a private citizen was he not? Are his police friends supposed to abandon him for getting into a fight? If the police are not held accountable, how is it he had to go to court?
Gverdi, it’s obvious you have a problem with the police, could you be this Brain guy who got his clock cleaned? Think things through before you post, the truth is fairly obvious if you do and are willing to accept it.
A lot of confusion here. On the one hand, cops are under stress and this explains why some become abusive. On the other, they should be forgiven when they are abusive because many people stopped or arrested are dangerous or crazy. This is the job they sign up for. It is like combat. Nobody thinks it’s easy, but that does not give any cop anywhere a license to go over the line.
ACLU Sues Police for Seizing Man’s Phone After Recording Alleged Misconduct BY KIM ZETTER 09.07.12
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/09/man-sues-police-over-phone/
No civilized society should ever tolerate sensless brutality by their police. I have been a cop for over 23 years, and yes i have seen that the overwhelming majority of my peers are dedicated, professional and caring human beings. There seems to be a theme developing in these comments that the “good” cops should expel the “bad” cops otherwise they are all bad. Well , first of all most bad cops are in fact turned in by other cops, in my dept that is a fact. In what other industry does anyone go out of their way to clean their own profession ? Doctors , Lawyers, ?? When you are working at Chrysler on the assembly line and the guy next to you is f—ing up everything , you run upstairs to Mgmt to tell on him ? Go back to work monday and tell your company’s clients how they could get a much better deal somewhere else. Supporting the police should never be unconditional but look in the mirror before you post your comments.
Here’s a slightly biased assessment of the known facts as presented: a belligerent woman (who committed a citable offense) was unjustifiably manhandled because she didn’t know when to shut up and cooperate. The involved officers let their egos and their tempers override their common sense. If all the info presented is proven correct then the officers are at fault, but to some degree so is the woman. In the cold clear light of after-action review the officers will no doubt be found guilty of using excessive force, and because this incident has garnered a degree of public exposure the police department (Chief Beck) will feel pressure to appease both the media and the masses, which means the two involved officers are toast.
The end result of all this is that, once again, the rest of the force (be they field officers, supervisors or managers) will look at this as yet another “wake-up call” and they will reinforce their personal vows to not ever, for any reason, place themselves at risk of losing their job or incurring administrative wrath by being accused of crossing the line of good and reasonable conduct. Translation: cops learn by seeing the mistakes of others (and their subsequent punishment) and as a result they will only do what is minimally necessary to stay below the radar and still get paid. They will continue in this mold until such time as their pension is vested, after which they may stay on the job as long as is necessary to pump their pension up even higher than what the general public is aware of, at least to the point that they won’t have to work ever again or worry about their income or medical coverage. And because these good men and women have been beat into submission they will do their job with blinders on, driving to hot radio calls at the posted speed limit, and hoping that when they arrive at the scene of a major crime or incident all the key players will have either left or expired so as not to tempt the officers into taking any proactive action that would put them at risk of being accused of not walking the fine line of political correctness and/or public review. The end result it that the police department will look good and the media won’t have as many juicy news items to report involving police misconduct, albeit you may have to wait just a wee bit longer for the cops to arrive when you dial 911 … but they will look good and behave well when they finally show up.
The officers will not be toast. If the veteran is going to be fired, he will retire instead. The rookie will receive additional training and go behind the desk for a little while. He will not be fired. The rookie was not involved with the second take down. Why should he be punished? Remember, they are responsible for their ‘own’ actions.
1. The video shown on TV was edited. If you watch closely it’s obvious that there is footage missing from the tape immediately before each use of force. (I wonder why the TV news would do this? (sarcasm))
2. I know the officer involved. He is about as professional and level headed an officer as you will ever meet. I have not talked to him about this incident (he’s not allowed to discuss it) but I have to assume that she did something to push him to that point. None of us know what that was. (and I’ve NEVER seen him fist-bump anyone)
3. The citizen involved has had contact with the police before, and she was in no way lady like in any of them. The picture of her frowning face and “feel sorry for me” eyes is completely posed. She has a mouth that would make a sailor blush.
The vast majority of cops are good ones who try to keep the rest of you safe. They put on a bullet proof vest every day and do the best they can. The media never reports on this. You never hear about how an officer spent an hour resolving someone’s neighbor dispute that wasn’t actually a police issue in the first place. You don’t hear the insults an officer receives while writing a ticket for running a stop sign on your street where your kids play. You never hear about the many citizens who call the station to let the watch commander know how much they appreciated the service they received from the police. You don’t hear about it because it’s not good news, and the TV news programs have to get ratings to sell commercials.
I don’t know exactly what happened in this particular incident. If the investigation reveals that the officer in question abused his authority he will suffer the penalty. But most of the people commenting here have no idea what they are talking about. They jumped to the conclusion that the media wanted them to. They are mindless sheep. It’s ironic that it’s the sheep of our society that the police are protecting in the first place.
What too many of us that don’t put on the police uniform do is jump to conclusions. As a wife of an LAPD officer, I want my husband to come home safe and sound at the end of his shift every day. If he has to use force to subdue a suspect who will not obey verbal commands, that is an unfortunate consequence of putting his life on the line each time he puts on his uniform. I don’t know the specifics of this incident, but I find it hard to believe that they didn’t have a reason to use force. Maybe I am naive, maybe I am wrong. However, the incident was investigated by a supervisor, a watch commander, and the Captain. All the officers involved understood what they stood to lose if the department found the use of force was unwarranted or covered up. There is more to the story that the public is not aware of at this point, that is clear and evident. The media as well as the public should wait to persecute the men and women we call when we need their help until all the facts are made available.
Dunphy is usually right on, but he missed the boat on this one.
The suspect trying to take a bite out of the side of that officer’s face would have neccesitated a take down just like the one in the video.
Why did she suddenly turn on him right before the takedown?
I was a cop over a decade ago before the rampart scandal and yes as a rookie it was extremely difficult trying to learn the job. I’ve been with LA FIRE and I can assure you that the fire dept’s upper management is worst than the lapd. LAPD is overseen by the FBI whereas the Fire Dept is overseen by it’s own chief officers. I don’t have enough space here to type up all the injustices from the LAFD chiefs that eventually hurt the community