A Luckier Woman Covering Cairo
The morning after Hosni Mubarak’s step-down, I entered Video Cairo’s offices at 8:00 a.m. I had been awake most of the night covering Tahrir Square celebrations, and I was working on my next story — the requisite “day after” reactions, mood on the street, ongoing celebrations, and “what next?” piece.
As I checked online and waited for my camera crew to gear up, Gohar — the Egyptian production house owner — addressed me in hushed tones:
We hear that a major CBS anchorwoman was beaten up last night at the square. She’s in intensive care. Apparently she came over with a bunch of bodyguards and they were beaten up too.
My stomach flipped:
What? Who was it? Are you sure? Oh my God. Do you think it was because of the bodyguards? Were they American?
No reply. Assuming it was Katie Couric, I searched the Internet for news and emailed several friends in different countries to find out if they’d heard anything. I also tried a search on Lara Logan thinking maybe she had tried to come back into the country. Nothing.
Perhaps it was false? But Gohar is a respected, connected journalist with decades of experience. He accompanied Anwar Sadat on his historic trip to Israel, and he was working camera when Sadat was assassinated. Industry notables like Charlie Rose and Thomas Friedman had been milling about his Cairo facility all week. “If Gohar’s mentioning it,” one of his producers suggested, “it’s true.”
But there was nothing about it anywhere. For days. So I pushed the story aside.
I’m a correspondent for China’s CCTV English. I’m not tall or blonde nor am I hugely famous. But I’m reasonably attractive. And I traveled solo to Cairo to cover the revolution. I was terrified of being on my own, but I knew I would be working with an Egyptian producer and camera crew, and that helped me feel more secure. I prefer working with locals who know the score and speak the language.
But Gohar’s news had turned my blood icy and made me panic. I didn’t want to go out onto the streets anymore.
Because I had been in the square the night before. Egyptians that had fed off of the intense energy of an 18-day overthrow were now whipped into a frenzy bordering on chaos at Tahrir Square. Ostensibly they were happy, but that’s not how it felt.
When news came down of Mubarak’s departure, I ran to Video Cairo to hook up with my crew. We rushed out to the epicenter: Tahrir Square.
My crew was comprised of Nasser and Mahmoud. Nasser is a dark-skinned Sudanese whose soft-spoken nature belies years of covering upheaval in hot spots like Cairo, Mogadishu, Belgrade, and Beirut. Mahmoud is hulking, musclebound, and light-skinned with an infectious sense of humor giving way to menacing body language: “Mess with me, you’ll regret it.”
The square was pandemonium. Shouting, honking horns, screaming, pushing, shoving and everyone seemed to be headed to the square center. It was madness. I suggested to Nasser we not venture deep into the square. I knew what happens when the camera light switches on at night — hundreds swarm and surround you within seconds, and a terrifying “anything can happen” sensation becomes palpable.
But on came the camera light, and we were engulfed. Poking. Prodding. Sticks in my back. Angry, demanding tones: “Al Jazeera? Egyptian television?”
Obvious question: why are any reporters there? It’s worse than reporting from a war zone. At least in a war zone, you know where the enemy is, and who they are.
This is just plain reckless.
Yeah. Why do Weather Channel reporters stand out on the beach in the middle of a hurricane? Because if it bleeds it leads. The news is about eyeballs and that translates as $$$. Period.
Obvious question: Why are any female reporters there? Our rules about gender equality don’t necessarily apply there.
JFP: I believe the “rules of engagement” in covering this conflict are new for us journalists and you may very well be right. slf
It is very tragic what happened to Ms. Logan, but it has finally shed a spotlight on what happens to hundreds, if not thousands, of women who go to muslim countries with the Peace Corps., Red Cross,……etc.
These rapes, beatings, kidnappings and forced marriages against women, are happening far more that the public is aware of.
The lefty media and the organizations try to hush it up because they feel the truth of it, will damage the cause they are championing.
It is time for the west to speak up on behalf of these women. We can not allow these men to hide behind a lefty agenda.
The Boston Herald now has a story on the news coverup, revealing other concealed details about the attack, such as that the attack lasted nearly 30 minutes while hundreds of supposedly peaceful liberal democratic Egyptian protesters were chanting “Jew! Jew!” as Ms. Logan was being publically gang raped in Tahrir Square:
“CBS complicit in news coverup”: http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1317384
The article currently has more than 700 comments.
Diana West has a piece at TH this morning: http://townhall.com/columnists/dianawest/2011/02/18/egyptians_shouted_jew!_jew!_as_they_assaulted_logan/page/full/
in which she questions what the response of the media might have been had a female reporter been attacked at a Tea Party rally. All the incident proves is that the Lame Stream Media exists solely for the purposes of disseminating Leftist political propaganda. The LSM has no interest in truth.
Ms. Logan came close to becoming the Princesse de Lamballe of 2011.
It is a wonder that with so many news agencies at the demonstration no news agency knew of the brutal rape of one of their own and the attack on her crew.
I wondered the same thing. It just seems odd.
However, a woman, blond, out of place…in a barbaric, uneducated, uncaring man’s country…she was out of place..and “place” is important in these countries and times.
I don’t know that her name etc should have been publicized so quickly. The event/tragedy was fodder, nothing more..
Someone with more sense should have stepped in long before she went out in the crowds.
it was hushed up here too. the first article I saw was 2 days ago. Logan was already back in the USA before that.
who is protected by not airing the news in a timely manner?
Who is protected? CBS news obviously. It makes them look reckless allowing an employee down there without adequate protection, especially given the history over the previous weeks of reporters getting shot at, burned, beaten, jailed, etc. It’s not like there was zero warning.
When in doubt, next time say Brazil. Everybody in the world loves soccer and the Brazilians are neutral/cool. And they can look like anybody.
Works like a charm. Just say “Kaka” and make a kicking motion and you’re in like Flynn.
Or “Zico” if they’re old.
What happened to Lara Logan was a horror but far different from the experience of most people that night. I was there that night with a camera and flash and far from being a war zone it was like Carnaval in Rio and another writer described it as like “Woodstock”. I can’t tell you how many hands I shook and how happy everyone was. I saw no animalistic frenzy.
Actually in 9 days at Tahrir I always told people I was an American and the response was 100% positive.
Al-Jazeera and Egyptian TV should have gotten opposite responses since Al-Jazeera was shut down early on by Mubarak and Egyptian state TV was a menace to the protesters and journalists; so much so that the Minister of Information Anas El-Feky was placed under house arrest and resigned the next day.
Yes, James, but…eh…you seem to accidentally or purposely overlook the obvious…you’re a man. Do you honestly believe you would have been treated with the same kindness and warmth if you had been a Western woman?
I wasn’t trying to make a distinction or speculate on that, I was just saying what happened to me.
Sexual harrassment, from what I’ve read, is endemic in Cairo. I’ve never seen it, but I’ve read from stories of women, that it is bad.
There are plenty of disgusting stories of ‘wilding’ against women in the U.S., taking place in broad daylight in major American cities if one wants a leavening of context.
And trust me, that Brazilian thing actually does work.
“wilding against women”? such a benign way to phrase it. you SUCK. And somehow I doubt that a woman being gang raped and brutally beaten in a US public square would have to be saved by other women. Regardless, the gods of moral equivalence must be appeased.
And by the way, considering your other points of wisdom, your comments about it being Woodstock or Rio are no longer credible.
These videos in the U.S. exist on the net and I’ve seen them. No one did anything while women were brutalized and it was in broad daylight in the middle of a city. You can find plenty of other attacks in the U.S., entirely unprovoked on buses and in the subway.
“Wilding” is the term used for the former and it is the keyword to find these attacks. Sorry you don’t approve of my semantics. Using that to somehow attach me to the wrong side of such incidents is proof positive that you’re big fun at parties.
I don’t give two shits what you or anyone else in this world thinks of my credibility – I’m calling it like I see it. You’re calling it and weren’t even there so you have nothing to say in the matter and no credibility – none. Somehow suggesting that I have an agenda that involves making rape look like it is less brutal than it is is a pitiful thing to put on someone. Go kick yer cat.
Considering (at least) one woman, Lara Logan, WAS publically raped and brutalized for an extended period of time and was left to her fate by a until she was rescued by other women – it seems that your “calling it like I see it” means you aren’t very good at seeing it through those chippy rose colored glasses of yours. Which was my point. It stands …all by itself.
This is an article referencing a woman who was brutally raped, by a woman who was terrified. You come in here all happy clappy and dismiss the whole scene with comments about what a great party it was for YOU and how, despite the fact that sexual harrassment is rampant in Cairo – you’ve not seen a thing. Besides – shit happens, everybody does it. Get over it! And then you tell me that you suspect I’m not fun at parties. What party? Look at where you are! I have this vision of you in Lara Logan’s hospital room telling her. “Cheer up, everyone else had fun!”
Clearly you are a brave man who gets to where the action is. But perhaps if you looked past the party, hearty scene and took a good look around you you might see something more.
Sigh, you you are probably a great guy and a fantastic reporter and I know you didn’t mean to make light of the rape, but not all the world’s a party.
Heh – maybe I should have kicked the cat.
You have no point or sense of proportion.
Once again, trying to somehow attach me to the rape of a woman is a Bush League thing to do. Go kick your cat.
> “wilding against women”? such a benign way to phrase it.
Talk to the US big city liberals, they were the ones to start using it.
There are plenty of disgusting stories of ‘wilding’ against women in the U.S., taking place in broad daylight in major American cities if one wants a leavening of context.
The scrotal brotherhood runs deep in your veins, I see.
Well, Jamesy, in the USA, a woman isn’t accused of being a “whore” for being gang-raped and then summarily stoned to death by a judge/jury/committee of only “Muslim men”.
Your prettily painted “muslim world” is full of bullcaca. Go back to your Muslim paradise, strap on a vagina and call me in the morning.
It’s hard to imagine what kind of a shrewish harridan would try and make me complicit in the gang rape of a woman. Fairness is not a word in your vocabulary.
If you were the person you think you were you’d apologize.
Whatever hate issues you have for men please confine them to your significant other.
James, I read your missives attentively and take much knowledge from your words but we’ve got one reporter, Logan, who will probably never be the same and another female that knows. “it could have been her”.
Long term, what happens in the Middle East and with Islam is somewhat beyond my predictive ability but my gut tells me that we are seeing the end of the beginning, not the beginning of the end.
Stay safe.
TV you may be a bit premature in attempting to place events on any part of the time line. James was viewing the beast that is a mass demonstration from a different vantage point. Trying to place a very foreign occurrence in an American frame of reference is problematic at best. Reception is reality, at least until tempers cool.
No offense, James, but claiming a certain nationality is no protection (you know that, no doubt, this is conversation, not criticism).
Where I’m living in China, I’m surrounded by Canadians. They tend to invest a great deal of pride and identity in being from the country that “everyone loves” bacause they are so “nice”, and don’t go in for all that cultural imperialism, war-mongering, American stuff. When they go out on vacation, they put little Mapleleaf flags on their backpacks so that no one thinks that they are mean-old Americans (I actually have a long diatribe about how they shouldn’t confuse “insignficance” with “morality”, but I’ll save it for another time).
At any rate, a while back, an American friend of mine had a Canadian actually say to him that he wasn’t worried about uprisings in Asia, because nobody hates Canadians.
My friend’s response was a classic: “Mobs don’t check passports”.
They did check passports on at least one occasion. Guatemala City, Spring, 1987, Huelga de Dolores. That is a day each year when college students go somewhat nuts doing everything from playing pranks, to roughing up foreigners to vandalism.
That day my friend had been out in the morning alone and had been roughed up in the great square in front of the National Palace. Later I was there and a group came up to me, obviously a foreigner, and started their thing. They asked me where I was from. I said, in portuguese, “I’m a Brazilian, brother”, and they walked away.
I’ve met several Israeli tourists in Cairo who tell people on the street they’re from Canada.
Well, there certainly is an exception to every rule! And being an Israeli anywhere else in the Middle East would be a good time to impersonate a Canadian.
Once, when I was young, I with a Belgian guy when a gang of Arabs who were looking for trouble surrounded us on a street in France. The Belgian about got us killed, because he condescended to them. I got us out of it by playing up the stereotype of a fast-talking American joker until they laughed and let us go.
Even back then (the 80s), European Arabs said they hated Americans, but didn’t act it.
Maybe times have changed. I hope I never have to impersonate a Canadian.
I think you played it the right way. In those situations you have to stand up for yourself and be yourself while at the same time laughing it off cuz muslim culture, I hate to say it, is not one where these guys are going to go one on one and you can’t shame them into it.
In the states you can usually shame someone into going one on one but not here. You get into an argument here with one and you have 25 on you. During this time of trouble here in Cairo, it was the one thing that miffed me the most and there’s nothing you can do about it.
Don’t underestimate the Brazilian zeitgeist worldwide. It is instantly recognizable. You don’t have to believe but I wouldn’t forget it in a pinch. No one has a thing for Brazilians, no hate.
Maybe the love of soccer will be the downfall of Islamic Extremism.
Huge celebratory crowds always have a latent potential for menace and danger. I learned this both as a child in Italy when Communist rallies were “dispersed” by the police, and at rock concerts and demonstrations in the 60′s in the U.S.
If crowds of “celebrating” American college students set fires and overturn cars when their team wins a big game, why should one expect a “celebratory” Egyptian crowd to not contain menace or danger?
Lara Logan’s ordeal was either deliberate — courtesy of Egyptian security forces — or the unlucky draw of being in the wrong part of the huge square at the wrong time. She was eventually rescued by women and soldiers, with those women being part of a more benign segment of the crowd.
Those aren’t college students burning cars.
Some evidence to support your assertion. My experience informs me that there are college kids who do in fact perform criminal acts!
“Mom:”
You’ve never been to College Park, MD after a big ACC win, have you?
Hate to say it, but the mob in Madison doesn’t look any nicer to me.
If you find yourself surrounded by Public School Educators, just tell them “THERE’S CAKE IN THE TEACHER’S LOUNGE!”
It will save your life.
…and cocktails!
I was also somewhat surprised by the writer saying that al Jazeera would have gotten negative response. I would have thought that in Iran al Jazeera would get negative response but not in Egypt.
Being on the square in the midst of demonstration was, as mentioned, dangerous for a woman-journalist reporting for a “wrong” MSM however I think that the problem was that someone took her for a Jew.
New York Post was reporting that her attackers were screaming, quote, “Jew, Jew” and she was eventually rescued by a group of Egyptian women and approximately 20 Egyptian soldiers.
If this report is true, and if some people were shouting that she was a Jew, it may have went viral and that was why she was beaten and assaulted.
Simply, association Mubarak – Israel (Jews) is quite strong in Egypt.
A terrible, terrible thing. But no foreign woman (reporter or not) should have been anywhere near this mob. This is a rare case of a western liberal actually paying a price for their liberalism. And what a price it was. She thought that because she had seen extensive combat with U.S. troops that Tahrir Square was somehow equivalent. Liberals don’t understand that American soldiers aren’t rapists (they were actually protecting Logan), and just because Egyptians have brown skin doesn’t make them helpless victims.
In the late ’60s early 70s liberal women lawyers and social workers tried to help black ex-cons, and some had “open door” policies at their own houses. This ceased after a number were raped and killed by those they were trying to help. Their liberalism blinded them to the danger they were in.
Working for China’s CCTV is disgraceful. CCTV is under the direct control of the Chinese governmentand puts a happy face on an oppressive regime. Shame on Stephanie L. Freid for voluntarily cooperating with them.
What happened to Lara Logan in Cairo was Islam-by-the-book, the book being the Koran. It wouldn’t have mattered if the mob had known that she was anti-Mubarak and had personally spit in his face. She would’ve been raped and beaten because she was a Western infidel woman, scarfless, veil-less, dressed to the nines for a later interview with an Egyptian government official (which interview, of course, never happened). Like many stonings and beheadings in that Islamic paradise, the whole thing was probably recorded on video by participating Egyptian men, but that snuff video won’t surface in the West. One wonders if the person who took that photo of grim-faced Logan was able to snap a few of her being hauled off by the beasts. Who was he? Why isn’t there the usual photo credit, aside from the AP one? CBS is also complicit in suppressing the story, because it doesn’t want to risk being charged by CAIR or other Islamic outfits of being “bigoted.” Another curious tidbit is that a Wall Street Journal “insider” claims that Logan wasn’t raped. Has any reader here a handle on that item?
It’s curious how this garners more attention than the slaughter of Christians and Hindus by muslims. This and much worse happens on a daily basis and yet we’re supposed to feel more sympathetic for a journalist.
I wish I could say that I don’t understand the disparity.
Notice the relief in this female reporters tone when she gets to the supposed safety of a European country. Ironic (and insane) that progressive westerners are doing everything they can to weaken western civilization, their sole source of protection from moslem savages. To where do you escape next, my dear?? to where??
Well we know that it couldn’t have been Katie Couric… after all, she’s the one who came up with the Muslim Cosby Show idea!
Isn’t the real question: “Why are we only hearing this NOW?!”
At the time, every news report told us how HAPPY the people were and what a JOYOUS occasion it was.
Did they (predictably) think we couldn’t handle the truth?
Lara Logan’s ordeal was either deliberate — courtesy of Egyptian security forces…
if so, here’s a tip: stay away from Gohar
“Gohar — the Egyptian production house owner — addressed me in hushed tones …… Gohar is a respected, connected journalist with decades of experience. He accompanied Anwar Sadat on his historic trip to Israel, and he was working camera when Sadat was assassinated.”
The part about Gohar ‘working the camera’ hit me too. Especially considering that Sadat’s life was in constant danger and there were rumors all the time that he might be killed. Gohar sounds like bad news, but Stephanie is an employee of the PRC, so she doesn’t seem to be completely clued in. Then again, half the world eagerly trades with the PRC so…
I am really sorry fot the CBS anchor. Yet she and her bosses should have known that muslim men hardly see any woman and are like a hoards of horny animals. Through her (saddly)America got a taste of arab democracy and of the religion of peace…
Two points to the above comments. First, CCTV isn’t only gov’t propaganda but also cultural shows and TV that don’t have any surface bias. Perhaps the author could tell us some of her interesting stories about working for them and how she has encountered any of the expected biases or otherwise. That would be worth reading about.
Second, when I went to Egypt as a tourist a decade ago, I read up on it and had ample warning that it was common for women to be groped in public, especially public celebrations. I’ve ever read since then that women in chadors with only their eyes showing also get harassed the same as any woman. So it IS Egypt. I walk around town in the US quite freely and rarely get mobs of men or even one man daring to do such a thing.
I hate to break it to you but there is something that all women should accept and know: there are some places that you cannot go as a woman, without assuming a huge risk to self, unless you’re armed with a semi-automatic weapon or escorted by a massive entourage. I’m not joking.
Yeah, that’s sexist. That shouldn’t be. Stinks to be us. But it’s also true.
A large whipped up crowd is a risk, no matter where you are. In a middle eastern country where there are a different set of values set on women, and if you violate them on some level, some people may take advantage of that. It’s true that anyone can step in it while traveling, and be quite innocent about it, and then you find yourself in huge trouble, no matter what your gender. It’s also true that women are particularly vulnerable on that level.
Egypt has a reptutation of grabby/commenting men towards women, on a good day. They also have a large contingent of people with anti-semetic sentiment. Add anger towards Mubarak who was considered to be pro-western…and then drop a blonde, western unprotected female into the middle of it? Carnage.
This situation rattled your cage, and it should. Not to say that it should keep you from working, but having a strong sense of self-preservation should have a deep realist bent if it’s going to benefit you. See the world how it is, not how you’d like it to be and act accordingly. And always remember while traveling Toto, that you’re not in Kansas. Don’t forget that you’re female, because they won’t.
Unfortunately, that CBS reporter either didn’t know the aforementioned from being overly conditioned by western culture, or blew off the warning signs. You just cannot operate from an ethnocentric position under the circumstances. You have to activate your gut at times like this, it’s a survival mechanism and then listen to it. To survive as a woman is to operate under different parameters.
My heart absolutely breaks for her, but I’d have told her the same before the fact. I save the intellectualising and the debate over gender social constructs for dinner parties. When it comes down to brass tacks and you’re faced with decisions in the real world, you act accordingly. It’s about survival.
There is a new Facebook page called, “We, Egyptians apologize to Lara Logan”.
Having said that, I just came back from 4 hr. in Tahrir Square continuing to document this historic uprising as a personal project that started for me on the street against riot police on Jan.28; took 371 photos. I do very close in work all with a wide angle 28mm lens and so I interact with most people I photograph. It was very crowded.
It was a love fest and I was treated so well that it was moving. Everyone asked me where I was from, America, and no one asked me if I was a Jew. I saw no signs with Mubarak and no Star of David. Everyone said “Welcome”. I told them, “Welcome to the party”.
My friends in Egypt who go on about Israel I tell to forget about Israel; to me it is their one great failing and they will never reach the place they aspire to until they shed this muslims are always right thing. When you speak to them about the history from the British Mandate til now, there is not even a pretence of fair play; their version of that history is so askew that it is a fantasy and a childish one at that.
I read before I left that the prayers, at least in one sector cuz everyone was praying all over, would be led by a Muslim Brotherhood guy that has said some pretty nasty things about Jews. It is no stretch to say that generally speaking, Egyptians hate Israel.
I wish I could have been where Miss Logan was that night. If I had had a pipe I would have bent it around as many heads as I could regardless of the consequences. I send that young woman my prayers.
Your vomitous love-affair with misogynistic scum is no “enlightenment” for me or anyone else with a clue about Islam and Sharia.
Grow a mother effing brain, you pansy-@ssed dolt.
Wear a burka and talk to the same people and find out what it’s like to be a second-class citizen and get back to me. Really. Do it if you have the intestinal fortitude or stop singing the praises of these low-life scum you so ‘adore’ in all of your pro-Muslim posts which are borderline sycophantic nincompoopery.
Bigotry and man hatred all rolled into one. A really attractive package.
If you want to have an argument about women in Islam go and track down someone who’s making that argument one way or another because I have not.
Your projecting your bile onto the wrong guy.
Have you ever even been in a muslim country or is it keyboard enlightenment?
In my later teens I dated a “Westernized” Muslim man and came to know his ‘friends’ from Iran who believed in kidnapping young American girls and bringing them back to their home countries as ‘wives’. Believe me, I probably know more about the men from those countries as a woman than you’ll ever nightmare to know (and thank heavens I had the good sense even as a young woman to help rescue a 16 year old girl from their clutches before I was ousted from the “brotherhood” myself)!
You dated a muslim as a teenager. Well, that certainly explains why I am a philosophical accessory to a rape and why you should be the ambassador of Iran.
And it is a very cogent argument why half the men in Egypt if not the entire muslim world are misogynistic low-life scum.
I have photographed Carnaval in Rio 5 times, 4 times with a credential so I was in the middle of everything. People are raped, robbed, assaulted and murdered. Yet people love Carnaval, talk about how happy everyone was and life goes on.
Over 300 men were murdered and some 5,000 injured during this uprising and that is a very low estimate in my opinion. Today I ran into a guy sitting with a very large vinyl poster with a badly beaten dead man on it. A man sitting next to him spoke English told me it was the guy’s brother. It was more than I could take.
Please tell him here what a low-life scum he is and tell the deluded second class mother’s whose sons are dead as well. People were happy today in Tahrir but there were memorials to the dead and everyone knew a price had been paid in blood.
Since being murdered is worse than rape, please express your sympathies here to the dead – let your outrage show and please leave me out as an accessory.
I feel sorry for that man’s brother and that man and you too because you are an utter bigot and guilty of misandry as well. I won’t hold my breath or balance dishes on my head waiting for your compassion either for men or muslims. By your standards that man should’ve hated me and everybody else too because the dead were killed by Mubarak’s people and everyone here feels that Mubarak was supported by the U.S. But they didn’t blame me because contrary to what you think, these people are not less wise than you, they are wiser.
What happened to Miss Logan that night was not at all typical of the crowd and that crowd was happy, as happy as I’ve ever seen and today it was the same. In Tahrir during the uprising, crowds swarmed camera crews, night or day, women or men; I don’t know why but they do, every single time.
Some 140 journalists and newsrooms have been attacked, robbed, beaten and arrested during the uprising. I was detained by secret police, brought to a military checkpoint and released. I have been lucky – had I not been I certainly wouldn’t have demonized the country. Bad people are everywhere you go, some places less and others more but they’re there. Try walking around a celebratory crowd of 100,000 people jam packed together in the states at night and see what happens.
The comments on this page about me are extremely inadvisable if you wish to be looked at as anything but self-righteous, pompous nobodies trying to take a moral high ground you have no right to in any way, shape or form. You know nothing about the uprising here or life and it shows, in spades.
In the U.S., they are killing and raping women and children wholesale; open your eyes. You can send a kid out on an errand in downtown Cairo at midnight with no problems. Try that in New York or Chicago. You’d have your kid taken from you by social services just at the thought of it.
Misandry? Bigotry? I see you read the manosphere blogs.
Keep drinking the kool-aid, penis mightier. I’m no moonbat, nor am I a “woman’s libber”. I’m simply expressing my opinion just as you are here.
Girl babies are purposely aborted throughout the world simply because they are females…I mean, if you want to talk about deaths of a certain…*ahem* gender for the sole purpose of genocide, look also to the deaths of female infants worldwide who are absolutely innocent.
Men create wars. Men die in wars they themselves have created.
Wouldn’t it be nice if men weren’t so violent and war-mongering that men wouldn’t have to die in order to protect the world from violent men? And FYI: That’s not misandry…just the damned truth.
*sigh*
If this happened in most American cities in broad daylight the savage dogs would have been shot by good American citizens packing heat. This makes me sick.
http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jun/13/nation/na-40604
You never heard of this? I’ve seen the video and the 15 assailants were surrounded by people who did nothing.
Central fricking Park, New York City, broad daylight.
This being New York City I guess you aren’t aware that citizens “packing heat” and willing to defend the innocent is out of the question? NYC started repressing the RKBA in 1911 when a major politician and crime lord got his eponymous Sullivan Act passed; by the time this happened things had swung so far against the good guys that they would have been crucified if they’d effectively gone to her aid (while it’s not necessarily a clean case, see Bernard Getz for the most notorious example).
The article you link to gives no indication that there were bystanders that did not intervene. You may be thinking of a different article or a different universe.
Robert, I am not a browser – find the video. At the time this happened, it was a big story in the U.S. and everyone knew about it. The video has been widely seen on American television and it clearly shows exactly what I stated.
In liberal land, this is of course, another universe.
It only took a couple of days to see the change in the pictures coming out of Cairo: first, a group of placard-waving, peaceful, walking protesters, next, a violent mob of aimless rioters. Then the first reports of people having to stay home to defend their property and themselves against vandals, looters and worse appeared. It was unwise for anyone to try to cover those RIOTS from anywhere but a very high rooftop.
Agreed. No interest there, stay at a distance. Usually media is known as not dangerous, just news folks. Times are either changing or, it depends on the area, or skin color, or even sex. Bad folks can hide well in a croud. Even the crowd leaders, if peaceful, find it getting away from them when the looters join in for “free stuff.” LA riots was an example.
I remember this big deal about women getting into locker rooms of naked men to be equal in reporting the mood, etc. after the premier games. Fair? Well… Do males go in locker rooms of females? So kick out male reporters AND female reporters? That’s usually the policy. Seemed to me the locker room was a respite, and if a dude is there asking questions, answer or don’t answer. No sweat. But sure, no females regardless of whether they’ve seen all that before or not. Because once you start forgetting normal decency, all values start getting screwed up.
Privacy, decency, good times when the time is right for both sexes, no torturing Iraqi detainees, break knees on the dudes hurting Ms. Logan. You know, common sense sh**.
How is it that you can write: “trying to somehow attach me to the rape of a woman is a Bush League thing to do.” when I ended my post saying, ” I know you didn’t mean to make light of the rape”?
Depth of perception doesn’t seem to be your biggest strength. All the world’s a party, eh James. Well have another and once again all will appear to be that cheery place you experienced in Cairo.
Here is your post I responded to; has it been altered?
“Considering (at least) one woman, Lara Logan, WAS publically raped and brutalized for an extended period of time and was left to her fate by a until she was rescued by other women – it seems that your “calling it like I see it” means you aren’t very good at seeing it through those chippy rose colored glasses of yours. Which was my point. It stands …all by itself.”
Since you have no clue as to what’s going on here that means you have no idea whether I am seeing things through rose colored glasses or not; that leaves us only what you want to believe. When you lay your head on your pillow tonight, ask yourself why you would want to believe I am somehow complicit in a rape I had nothing to do with or why it is suggested I am a shill for muslims.
You only have to click on my name to see essay after essay where I clearly side with Israel versus the Palestinian Arabs who I take to task severely.
Save your stupid insults for your mirror.
Like an umpire, I do call them like I see them. I may be wrong but to suggest I have an agenda that is pro-muslim or anti-female shows a depth of stupidity that is quite off putting. Life is what you make of it and we have all had our tribulations. Life is a party when I can make it one and you, I am confident, are the not the life of that party.
get a clue. I didn’t imply you were shilling for muslims or anti-female, I implied that the fact that Lara was raped means that it is obvious that you incorrectly gaged the mood of the crowd. I see now that I posted my second post as anonymous – but was it really so hard to put two and two together on that? Read up. Your own words speak volumes.
BTW your “Bush League” joke shows just how juvenile you are. Grow up. Oh, and btw – is there a word for a male harridan shrew? Just wondering?
Over thinking is your stock in trade; my “Bush League” was not a pun or a double entendre but a reference to the small leagues, amateur.
No, I can’t ferret out names out of a hat.
It’s obvious I mis-gauged the mood of a crowd you were nowhere near. A gang rape in a crowd of 100,000 to 250,000 or maybe even a million, is no comment on the whole crowd; that’s a rather large town in some places and towns have crime. The fact that you wish it to be so to prop up your ‘reasoning’ means nothing. The fact is that no one knows what happened or who those people who assaulted Miss Logan were. To suggest they were average Egyptian men is loopy but no stretch for people willing to demonize men and see women as holding some imaginary moral high ground.
Since there is no male harridan here you’ll have to stand in til one shows up. Don’t forget to throw your cat against a wall.
That crowd was happy and during this time in Cairo I have certainly seen days when fear was palpable and that night was not one of those nights.
I don’t want to be the misogynist at the Kumbaya Gender Hoedown; neither do I want to appear callous to the risks faced by Ms. Freid or Ms. Logan; nor minimize the courage it took for both women to be in the square at all.
But. I’m a Boomer and have been an observer of, and occasional conscripted & unwilling soldier in, the Gender Wars, pretty much from the opening shots by Ms. Friedan, to what seems to have been women’s final cultural and economic victory, and the resultant near-emasculation of adult American males and their exile to extended, sometimes permanent adolescence.
So I will raise what I’m sure will be a most unwelcome proposition – I doubt it will end well. I submit that on the date of the assault of Lara Logan, because of her gender and concomitant lesser ability to physically defend herself, she could not safely perform her job, and actually put the members of her team at significantly increased risk of serious harm. Indeed, they were harmed because she felt she had to go into that mob in the square.
I recall one of the arguments from the late-70′s-80′s against allowing women to do extremely hazardous jobs which traditionally had been the sole province of men. The claim was that society simply could not put women in some male roles because women just could not be expected to meet the standards required. Some “male” jobs subjected men to real physical danger; and required the men to possess physical courage, muscular strength, endurance and hardihood. Additionally, many such jobs required significant specialized and heavy physical training; and a substantial “physicality” so that a man in a job which particularly threatened bodily harm ideally would carry himself in such a way that he convincingly project the likelihood of exercising significant violence directed at any and all who might threaten the security of his own person, or anyone for whom he was responsible. I thought it was a pretty good argument against treating women as men-with-different-plumbing.
Not many man can meet the requirements of specialized and dangerous physical jobs, and very few women indeed. But we have long since abandoned hard facts for the fuzzy logic of the social engineers. It has become an article of faith that anything men can do women can do better; and if they can’t it’s because the game was rigged. So our society, prodded by that limitless litigiousness possessed by the disappointed in postmodern America, got around the hard facts by treating them as if they didn’t exist, and simply “defined down” physical job requirements of many jobs until a respectable number of reasonably fit women could meet them.
Problem solved, right? Now women must be allowed to go anywhere and do anything men alone had done in the bad old sexist days. And by judicial decree Lara Logan could now go to any foreign country, even one with a culture and religion which had a history of antagonism to, even violence against, both women and Westerners. And Ms. Logan was forever after to be secure in her person and property, inasmuch as she had been judicially decreed to be physically strong and imposing enough to ensure the safety of her crew and herself.
But just because you can doesn’t mean you should. Wild-eyed Egyptian mobs don’t often care for the fiat of an American judge, and Lara Logan wasn’t seen as a strong, imposing figure capable of defending herself and her crew. She was seen as a Western woman, shamelessly flaunting her blond hair and offensive sexuality in the face of all those good Muslim men just brimming over with the hyper-righteousness of Islam. And Something Had To Be Done, so that she understood how offensive she was.
Besides, to the minds of these Muslim men, she was “just a woman”.
This was not Lara Logan’s fault in any way. I’m certain Ms. Logan fully realized the danger she faced in that square, and it was probably the last place she wanted to be. But it was her job, which her bosses had sent her to do, and I’m sure she felt against her better judgment that she had to go into that square. But by doing that she almost signed the death warrants of herself, and camera and sound men and other crew, including her so-called bodyguards. The bodyguards, because they were unable to carry firearms, were completely unequipped to protect Ms. Logan from a mob. But where she went, they had to go. And so they were savagely beaten.
All because over the last 40 years we have lost our minds as a nation. The dominant media culture pretends words have no meaning, ideas have no consequences, facts control nothing and everything can be negotiated. Yes, we are masters of our fate, and the world and all in it must bow to our will.
This attitude has resulted in a very public sexual assault of a woman who has been told her entire life that gender controls nothing, nature is a minor inconvenience, and she could have it all if she just worked hard enough. She found out that she had been lied to, and that she was helpless in the face of a vicious and uncaring reality, also known as a crazed mob of sexually-repressed, misogynistic Muslim men.
Maybe a little good can from the ordeal of Ms. Logan. Perhaps we can learn to again pay at least some respect to the facts if the real world.
And while were at it, let’s have these ardent feminists who broke down all the barriers while not taking no for an answer, why they backed off when it comes to making veterans hospitals full of broken men fully co-ed?
The day that feminists absolutely insist on being in front line combat units and not take no for an answer is the day feminism will have traction for me.
Almost 98% of the U.S. military deaths in Iraq are men and that is an absolute disgrace.
Very, very, well said.
yes, sardondi, the world is a dangerous place and getting more so. Why some people cannot seem to figure this out, is beyond me?
No one deserves what happened to Logan, but no one should really be surprised by this either…
“She was seen as a Western woman, shamelessly flaunting her blond hair and offensive sexuality in the face of all those good Muslim men just brimming over with the hyper-righteousness of Islam. And Something Had To Be Done, so that she understood how offensive she was.
Besides, to the minds of these Muslim men, she was “just a woman”.”
I agree with you that she was targeted for this brutality for being a woman. However similar hostility is often directed towards western male journalists – not for their gender, but for the fact that they’re American or they’re Jewish or Christian… thinking of Daniel Pearl for instance, brutally murdered, and other male journalists involved in hostage situations, or attacked, tortured or killed. Mobs, conflict zones and war zones remain dangerous places to report from period, for men and women; however, men and women journalists may be targeted for reasons that overlap in some cases but are different in others.
“open your eyes. You can send a kid out on an errand in downtown Cairo at midnight with no problems. Try that in New York or Chicago. You’d have your kid taken from you by social services just at the thought of it.”
Once again your ignorance is on display for all to marvel at. Keep drinking, James. Keep drinking. Then if you squint really, really hard, you might still be able to see the world from your fading 60′s prism.
To a liberal, true observation on the ground is always ignorance and the ignorant view from a bigot’s apartment 5,000 miles away passed off as observation and truth.
Have fun hating much of the known world and don’t forget to kick your cat every night when you get home
Have fun hating much of the known world and don’t forget to kick your cat every night when you get home
Spoken like a true Takkiya master. “Bigot!” “Racist!” “Man-Hater!” “Muslim-Basher!”
Go back to reading ‘Roissy’ and ‘The Spearhead’.
“the ignorant view from a bigot’s apartment 5,000 miles away ”
So…. you live in Chicago? Or is it New York?
Look, I’m not the one who waltzed into a blog about a woman being brutally raped written by another reporter who was terrified and then, like a big clod announced how fun the evening was for me, then further stepped in it by saying that yes Cairo is notorious for sexual harassment but that I’ve never bothered to notice and then blathered on about how it was “spoiling the party” for a woman to be offended by my flippant remark about “wilding”.
Becky, doofus Mcgroofus “Jamesy May” already outed himself as a Muslim:
http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2011/02/16/a-reply-to-a-fearfully-concerned-muslim-friend/#comment-440644
Takkiya much? A much too much!
These idiots think they are so sneaky and clever and they piss and moan and cry “bigot!” and “Racist!” when they are outed. hahahahahaha
Pw0nd, pond scum. hahahaha
Whatever you do don’t put on a tin foil tuxedo and accidentally lock yourself in a giant microwave oven on pay-for-view.
Becky (and all) #24 post nailed it. “Words have no meaning…” But they sure hurt like they do.
Your quote, Becky, should at least once be reversed and used on yourself. This one: “Look, I’m not the one who waltzed into a blog about a woman being brutally raped written by another reporter who was terrified and then, like a big clod announced how fun the evening was for me, then further stepped in it by saying that yes Cairo is notorious for sexual harassment but that I’ve never bothered to notice and then blathered on about how it was “spoiling the party” for a woman to be offended by my flippant remark about “wilding”
– Consider how many offended men you cared nothing about during the Lorena Bobbitt incident, with your likely celebratory mood and auto-assumption he deserved it, pronounced loudly. Good times back then, right? Except for men it was a 9-11 like event where they watched a respected gender that were fighting to open doors (every kind) for, instantly decided a man they didn’t know deserved no pity. Yes, I am guessing, but am I right? Can you practice compassion for both genders?
Delia and Becky, James May has worked hard to inform you. He doesn’t believe it was Ms. Logan’s fault, or that bad Egyptian men are not bad, or that good Egyptian men and not good. Can you give him a break?
Most importantly, I pray for Ms. Logan. Anything could be the back story: her bosses wanting to kill themselves for letting her (or sending her) in. We need to come together here, and only be angry and actual violators. Sometimes words hurt when not said just right – we all experience that. Can we forgive verbal non-perfection, and take a small risk by not “killing” supposed allies to the wrong-doing – as decided by their less-than-perfect words and imperfect show compassion. No man here would ever want Ms. Logan hurt.
“Over thinking is your stock in trade”
and underestimating appears to be yours. You wrote, “trying to somehow attach me to the rape of a woman is a Bush League thing to do. ”
so I guess your only misuse of caps was because…because what, James?
You said, ” A gang rape in a crowd of 100,000 to 250,000 or maybe even a million, is no comment on the whole crowd;”
And that was my point James. Thanks for making it so crystal clear. Just because you found yourself among a little group of smiley face people giving you hugs and kisses, it is obvious to everyone on this board but you that that your experience is a meaningless comment regarding the mood of the whole crowd.
Since you have no idea of the mood of the crowd that night you are only revealing what you want to believe and that is a compendium of misandry, ignorance, a certain measure of stupidity, libel, lies, bigotry, racism, hypocrisy and cultural superiority based on laws and social forms your ilk have had nothing to do with either in terms of innovation or protecting them. In this sense, everything you do and own is borrowed until someone wants it back including your ‘ideas’.
Have a nice day. Don’t forget to mug your cat.
Sorry you don’t understand old baseball slang. Why put it on me? Google it with the computer and browser you didn’t and can’t invent – the one I borrowed you.
Becky and Delia, IMO you’re definitely right that James May’s times in Egypt have been made better because he’s a man.
Please just rely on several balancing perspectives. Even though I call them perspectives, is not the beautification of our homes, our yards, our neighborhood, our personal style and so on – for the purpose of making our environment a nicer place to live? THat extends to rules about fairness, and some rules have gone too far where men have zero rights after a woman calls “abuse” – but I digress. The point is the balancing effort takes CONSTANT effort.
1- In this case where a man can statistically be safer in a country alone, where the public rape of women is possibly more frequent (it seems this way to me), would he at that time be free of harm?
2- Is he always go to have the “upper” hand regarding a better life? Neither you nor he lives in those countries, so it’s back to America and bust your butt or get outworked by a gender that multi-tasks far better (may be sexist but all the women I’ve worked with have been better on the computer/cubicle work than me – and I try very hard. And pretty-da** successful, but better on my feet. I just have to soar with my strengths and manage my comparative weaknesses).
3- Just like when viewing one sport and there’s a king or queen – he/she’s the best player and most admired. The competition ends. Back to real life. No one is better than another. Change sports and the player is clumsy, the worst. All this means is change environments, and when we do so we all know men are not superior to women, or safer.
Using perspective, just avoid certain situations (face up to this) and don’t fight like the dickens to always be the best, the winner (stating only men start wars while amping up a verbal war, which if you were face-to-face with a man would probably get ugly due to you, Ms…) fastest, the most of, perfectly equal or even perfectly safe, because no one is safe in all situations, or in total control of the events around them. Victimization hurts like hell, by physical means and even by public opinion (and sometimes both, such as blaming the victims).
All the best – to my singled out, and I hope – friends.
I don’t care what anyone thinks! All I care about is getting to the center of the tootsie pop!
Kiss me, you fool!
*muah*
(seriously, you’re adorable, don’t quit)!
That’s you Delia, adorable and a fighter. We gotta fight! Just when you win, don’t hurt me too much, please!
Ohhhhhhhh you’re good, you silver-tongued mediator!
Hahaha. This mediator is lucky to reply to the right thread, but I’m catching on
-”The man with the silver tongue”
This site should allow me to edit my typos! But also meaning:
In perspective 1- above the man is the significant other of the women the mob goes after. He, too, would be harmed.
The revealing statement here is that Becky says Miss Logan was rescued by women without reference to the 20 soldiers. The soldiers were morally neutered automatons miffed at having their cigarette break interrupted, morally led by the brave women, probably waving flags and dragging the reluctant soldiers.
This is a fantasy wish projected onto reality. That wish is to attack men as a default mechanism, take them down a peg, make them morally irrelevant, projecting my simple reporting as a wading in to HER cocktail party about a rape SHE owns that I somehow also DO own but become complicit in because I waded in in a manner that was impolite and so worthy of the full force of insults and lies with no sense of proportion.
One can only wonder why my own rhetorical rape in this forum is so blithely cousined while bystanders do as little as those in Tahrir Square. Call these two shrews out for what they are – a reality TV show about nobody’s nowhere proclaiming their wisdom about events they are entirely disconnected from with the arrogance of a Napoleon but without the accomplishment to go with it. Bravo’s “The Housewives of Harpy County”.
I’ll tell you this: I would have loved to have them stand where I’ve stood since Jan.28 because it was a whole lot worse than people poking fingers in my back in a crowd packed like sardines; you would have wished you had a diaper as you were taken by plain clothes secret police to an army checkpoint to see a scene straight out of “A Tale of Two Cities” complete with Madame DeFarge and crying prisoners. It made me wish I was only being tear gassed a dozen times. There will be no essays reporting this in speculative or culturally punishing detail forth coming from me other than a bare bones and dry outline of the event.
Did I go home like the big wig reporters? No, I stayed and continued to violate curfew and photographed what the gov’t didn’t want photographed. In my 12 days in Tahrir I was poked about 80 million times – was I being groped? I should add that I almost certainly would have been pickpocketed and my camera bag slit in any other Third World country I have been in yet this did not occur and this is the only hotel in 6 years in 15 Third World countries I have left my door unlocked when I left the building.
Go to the Facebook “We, Egyptians apologize to Lara Logan” page and express your compassion as I have done instead of pitifully trying to link me in the most vulgar way to a crime I had nothing to do with and would have prevented had I been able. My very presence amidst tear gas, violation of curfews, risk of arrest, robbery, assault, imprisonment just to tell the story of this uprising with documentary photography is proof of that.
What would you have done? Call 911?
Unlike others, I blame Miss Logan not one whit for what happened to her and nor do I blame a entire crowd of tens of thousands of people with inappropriate last names and gender nor have I tried to qualify or leaven this brutal act; it is a liberal thing to blame others for crimes rather than the perpetrators – this is why they look at black American criminals as profiled political victims. Replace some of these innuendos by our enlightened female liberals with the word Jew and you’ll have a clearer view of where these ardent Jeffersonians are coming from.
If 10 men did this to Miss Logan then blame those 10 men and not I or the crowd and realize that in a crowd exactly like that and at night the exact same thing can and has happened in England, Rio de Janeiro, and New York.
Google the Coachella and Woodstock 1999 concerts for gang rape and see what you find and that is just the tip of the iceberg with such events. Why does this one get the star treatment devoid of such revealing context? I don’t know but I get the feeling that some people just don’t like muslims.
I do. I like muslims and Jews and Kurds and Mayans and Brazilians. Blacks, whites, gays, mothers, daughters, fathers, sons. There are certainly cultural issues and I am no cultural relativist but none that would sweep human beings in their millions into the animal kingdom.
“The soldiers were morally neutered automatons miffed at having their cigarette break interrupted, morally led by the brave women, probably waving flags and dragging the reluctant soldiers. This is a fantasy wish projected onto reality. That wish is to attack men as a default mechanism, take them down a peg, make them morally irrelevant”
So by pointing out that the women in Cairo had to step in until the army arrived because the men in the area did NOTHING allows you to imagine all of this?
Your writing is nonsense and as uninsightful as your ability to see what is going on around you. Maybe if you spent less time on a bar stool you would see something other than cheerful smiley faces all in a party mood telling you how great you are because you aren’t an American.
I’m not going to address anything else. It is clearly as waste of time as you lack ANY ability of introspection. If it is man bashing to point out you are insensitive clod, them I’m guilty as charged.
Since you weren’t there you have nothing to be introspective about. You’re taking a event that is sparse on details and from a single source and accepting it as the gospel truth adding and subtracting players at will as well as motivations. You don’t know that any women rescued anyone or what real part the soldiers played and neither do I. It is you who are taking sides by advancing your ignorance as woman=right, men=wrong
Anyone who can juggle so many realities inside their head without regard to proportion, civility, respect, experience or context should get a job in the circus cuz it is quite an act.
I don’t drink but I have a terrible feeling that those closest to you are flaming alcoholics – I know I would be.
What is your problem? Do you even read what I write???? You are just making up crap about what I think men v/s women and can’t seem to stay on topic.
I’ve been very consistent. What I have commented on your conduct ON THIS BOARD about what an boor you are to come into a blog about a woman who was brutally raped, written by a woman who was terrified and talk about how much fun you had that night, talk about how you were too dense to ever notice sexual harassment in a city known for it, flippantly refer to a brutal rape as “wilding” and then go on about how everybody does it New York and Chicago (and then provide one lame example that doesn’t match your claim and mock your very own long distance observation with your very own coment about, “the ignorant view from a bigot’s apartment 5,000 miles away passed off as observation and truth”). You then lob juvenile insults such as “Bush League” where you suddenly lose your ability to punctuate properly (ie: the use of your capitals) and and then feign ignorance when I call you on it and pretend I just don’t understand what bush league means. Lame.
In my original post I said, “And by the way, considering your other points of wisdom, your comments about it being Woodstock or Rio are no longer credible.”
I completely fail to understand your beef with this comment as you said yourself, ” A gang rape in a crowd of 100,000 to 250,000 or maybe even a million, is no comment on the whole crowd;”. How hard is it for you to grasp that I have absolutely no valid reason to believe that your happy clappy adventure is any less of aberration than Lara Logan’s was.
I’ve never implied you condoned the rape and made that clear in previous posts. I’m just saying you are an insensitive oaf – something I’m sure you are already well aware of. But then, you didn’t read the shorter posts, so I’m sure this was far too many words for you to sift through.
Becky, here is my first post:
“What happened to Lara Logan was a HORROR but far different from the experience of most people that night. I was there that night with a camera and flash and far from being a war zone it was like Carnaval in Rio and another writer described it as like “Woodstock”. I can’t tell you how many hands I shook and how happy everyone was. I saw no animalistic frenzy.”
It is neither boorish or out of context and I have capitalized the word horror for your myopic eyesight. Google “Tahrir Square Woodstock” and see what you come up with – I have. Is everyone a heartless moron who has used the term? Considering the number of deaths that have occurred in Tahrir Square over the course of the uprising if you are to take us to task for using the term “Woodstock” at least go to the deaths and forget Logan. Don’t forget to tell all the Egyptians yesterday there celebrating that they shouldn’t have been smiling.
You strike me as someone who simply does not get out much. The Central Park Jogging Case is famous and has its own Wiki page. My use of the term “wilding” is specifically from this case about a public gang rape and the term originated there. You don’t know about the term and its context then that’s on you and has nothing to do with me.
It is not a lame example but a landmark one and a watershed moment in modern U.S. cultural history and I have provided Coachella and Woodstock 1999 and there are too many more to list here. My use of the term “wilding” has nothing to do with flippancy but is an exact U.S.cultural analogue to what happened to Miss Logan well known among the well read.
Further more, I was actually there that night and you were not yet in the Central Park Jogging Case there is video and I don’t need to be on the scene to see what happened so my comment about your 5,000 mile distance is right on the mark and not at all invalidated unless you not seeing the video of the Central Park Jogging case is somehow my fault. Educate yourself.
Your comments in your second and third paragraphs next to last cancel each other out and the last “happy clappy” sentence of that second paragraph cancels itself out. This is why you cannot see fair play since you can neither parse nor write logically in the english language. I recommend reading and writing comprehension DVDs.
This is from the glossary of baseball: bush league
“A slang term used to describe play that is of minor league or unprofessional quality. The “bushes” or the “sticks” are small towns where minor league teams may operate, the latter term also used in the acting profession, famously in the Variety headline of July 17, 1935, “Sticks nix hix pix”, meaning small towns reject motion pictures about small towns. A “busher” refers to someone from the “bush leagues”: see subtitle of Ring Lardner’s first book, “You Know Me Al: A Busher’s Letters”.
I have been using this term since I was a child and it refers neither to the President or a vulgarity as I used it. I absolutely fail to see the significance or either capitalizing it, or not, italicizing it or using quotation marks – it is still english slang. Considering my forthrightness in my own defence and the vulgarities used against me, I fail to see why I would be suddenly be shy about admitting to a double entendre – I simply did not. In fact it didn’t even occur to me til you over thought it and over reacted and you still are, preferring to call me a liar which is in perfect keeping with everything you write about me which has been non-stop attacks on a subject you clearly are not qualified to discuss.
I am not too dense to notice sexual harrassment – I have simply never seen it here. I have seen it elsewhere many, many times. I understand it exists here in Cairo – I do not understand it in the sense of direct observation. By its very nature men tend to do it when they think they are not seen by others.
You should try and relax and get out more, stop your shiftless personal attacks and increase your knowledge base or someone might confuse you with a stupid moron.
Go kick “Schroedinger’s Cat”.
James! At first I thought you were coming on too strong, “let it go, bro!” but great contribution. This and your follow-up to Becky were great posts and humorous.
What’s so hard, Becky? Can’t you see yourself? There no complete accounting. Yes, perhaps the gals made it there first and put up a good fight. That would be great and women absolutely DO have the natural ability to compel men to do right — but also to commit suicide/murder due to hopelessness and control in the courts of “abuse” in the US, and so on. There is significant power on boths sides! Sometimes good power, often hurtful power – especially the more one dwells on their own supposed bad side of the “good life.” Navigating power “sources” is fatiguing but necessary. We all don’t get what we want. You do come across as man-hating toward seemingly all men. I’m not sure what a man could say, or be allowed to say around you.
That’s it, that’s the place, a little more of that!
I meant there is video in the 2000 Central Park case and not the 1989 Central Park Jogging Case as I originally correctly alluded to with the LA Times link.
Here is a link to the 2000 case in which 56 women were assaulted and which mentions the Woodstock ’99 case as well.
http://www.streetharassmentproject.org/news/pressreleases/june11pressrelease.html
No AlanE, I don’t hate men. I’m just used to being around gentlemen.
Accepted, Becky. You sure put up a good fight! And I see most of your points.
I agree with you Becky.
Seems best to never use the word “wilding,” no matter who originated it. What a terrible insult. Imagine harming teen boys, as so many actually have been, by females thinking groin kicks are no big deal/fun and boys just have to take it – tens of thousands of instances which forever will change these “fresh,”(butt-patting), annoying, or even innocent boys. Suppose that was called, “wild oats management?” Use light-hearted words and laughs and the victims get no help at all, right?
It’s completely disrespectful to call a rape a “wilding.”
AlanE, Google the term “Ball-tapping”…it’s something boys like to do to each other for ‘fun’.
PJM actually had a whole article about it back in 2009 by Dr. Helen.
I checked your link, Delia. Long conversation! So the guy writes in with a hurt heart, stuff he can’t shake from his mind, and he got the full spectrum (summary): stop being a baby, grow up, don’t take so seriously sexually abusive images that affect how he gets treated and makes him feel vulnerable (can’t protect himself, can’t retaliate, and “it was self-defense” will always work for her), males are the movie producers and since he’s a male it’s proves it’s ok – he’s just going to have to deal with it…to some talk about circumcision.
Proof there’s a small % (still alive!) who still want sexual subjects to be treated special, both on women and men.
It is not disrespectful to use the term “wilding”. It is neither here nor there in fact. It is simply a term that describes an urban phenomena and is part of the English language that enables us to zoom in on an event through semantics rather than use catch-all terms that are less apt.
The english language is nuanced and I see no reason to shrink the dictionary for obscure arguments I can’t even understand. It is a more apt term than gang rape since it describes a gang rape that takes place in an urban setting and in public.
How in the world it is a terrible insult is something only the great unwashed understand since I cannot parse your meaning at all in this regard. Wilding has no “fun” context, none at all and I see no reason why you cast it in that light. It is clear you simply don’t understand the term.
But you have no problem with bandying about moronic ideas of what constitutes a gentlemen, or in this case “lady”, who uses the term “you suck” or makes libelous statements – that IS not only just fun but ladylike while a defense from uncalled for insults in ungentlemenly – that is not an insult but “wilding” is. In your world, libel is not only fun but doesn’t even really exist; on the other hand mindless decorum expected but not given in the first place does. One can only wonder how rude you would consider a sleeping bear that savaged you after you poked it with a stick.
If you can see most of her points or consider her uncalled for attacks okay then knock yourselves out. Her lack of context and blithering replies speaks to a lack of thought, not a use of it. Here’s what I see – 3 morons who can’t formulate a coherent thought between them and who congratulate each other on a noble attempt to do so.
You might as well kick Schrodinger’s Cat cuz there’s not much else to do in a Schrodinger’s Box you’ll never escape from since with you 3, thought is indeed an experiment.
Meanwhile I belabor the obvious, draw chalk figures of the sun rising in the East and find as little traction as Clarke’s monolith did with a rousingly similar audience.
In the context of the titular double meaning of Zaroff’s hobby, you would split it asunder by at once constituting the easiest game and most fun.
Stay home and leave dark alleys, revolutions and erupting volcanoes to those who don’t need incontinence diapers to look at their own shadows beyond the reach of 911. You’ll find the real world takes a somewhat different approach to up close and personal that is nowhere to be found on the internet. You can’t leave the house and you can’t think but you can talk – not exactly a recipe for survival.
When you do leave the house you still won’t be able to think but take my advice – don’t talk, especially in a crowd that can separate you from your bodyguards and 911 and leave you only with what you actually bring to the table. This is reality and it will intrude itself however cogent your winning insults are. I go where I want and say what I want and need neither bodyguards or 911 and this is the crucial difference the overcivilized with their dreams of equality in theory just don’t get. That’s why they venture into a large crowd at night in a far away city and then are surprised when paperwork that says they’re equal and men on the other end of phones don’t protect them.
As someone who was virgin who was raped at age 17 by a married man with two children who I foolishly trusted because he was my best friend’s older brother-in-law, I know a thing or two about rape on a personal level. As someone who was molested only by males and physically abused by females sans the sexual abuse growing up…I know both men and women can be heartless and cruel scum.
AlanE, the point I was making via the “ball-tapping” was that males are innately violent and virulent towards each other by nature. I’ve never kicked a boy or a man in the groin ever and I never found it funny or entertaining and yet there are men who find it a ‘gas’ for whatever masochistic reason I’ll never figure out. Men ‘haze’ each other and degrade and torture each other for fun in fraternities. I don’t understand that either.
Our humanity needs an upgrade.
I only want to hug you right now.
Okay, enough of my forwardness. God bless you, Delia. And, you turned out G-r-e-a-t.
Tapping and kicking vary largely by force and intent to harm. Men hazing, while VERY bad, definitely lighten up the force. It happened at my Major’s Christmas party a year ago. One gal still in attendance watching one guy complain and sort of laugh all evening, asking “why” to the other drunk offender laughing. Naturally I was thinking this better not work it’s way over to me as a male party participant. But it passed thankfully. What impression on the girl? Guys will accept that? It’s not too bad? They seem to on TV and everywhere else, even asking for it in places (!), or somehow are way too afraid to retaliate. Granted there would be problems, but let my case be the first to bring national attention – no one will ever get away with that. I can’t afford even once it to happen (you need to fill in the rest with your imagination). Aside from the pain, I enjoy being a man, since I can’t be anything else.
Aww. You’re gonna make me cry.
Thank you AlanE. You are a gentleman.
Thank you very much, Becky. It’s not such a bad thing if I should need to correct something I say around you, either.
The Cruel Barbaric Assault Targeting a Deeply Hated Non-Muslim is the Reason Why Israel must Never give one inch of her land to Islamo Nazis. There is no mercy for Jews or any other non-Muslims in the Koran.
A Muslim terror state implant rendering vulnerable little Israel indefensible is the means to multiple savage assaults by barbarians and a Second Holocaust of Jews.
Mainstream media and Western government leaders years ago betrayed Israel and all of Western civilization by constantly hiding Islamic hate, atrocities and mass murders – all inspired by founder of Islam, Mohammad, and the book of war, the Koran.
In Sweden, many Muslim youth wear a t-shirt proclaiming: “2030-then we take over”
There is no mercy for non-Muslims in the religion of Islam.
This is just one in a Very Long List of Horrendous Major Muslim Terrorist Attacks in Israel:
March 2, 2002: Ten people were killed and over 50 were injured in a suicide bombing at 7 pm on Saturday evening near a yeshiva in the ultra-Orthodox Beit Yisrael neighborhood in the center of Jerusalem where people had gathered for a bar-mitzva celebration.
The terrorist detonated the bomb next to a group of women waiting with their baby carriages for their husbands to leave the nearby synagogue.
Six children were among the victims. The Fatah Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade took responsibility for the attack. http://www.adl.org/israel/israel_attacks.asp
Jews are targeted first. All other non-Muslims are next. There is a Muslim slogan: First the Saturday people (Jews), then the Sunday people (Christians). It is scrawled in graffiti. In 2009 more than 165,000 Christians will have been killed because of their faith, most of them in Muslim countries.
In a January 1976 article in Commentary, titled “The Return of Islam,” Bernard Lewis wrote, “In the period immediately preceding the outbreak of the Six-Day War in 1967, an ominous phrase was sometimes heard, ‘First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people.’”
Egypt created the PLO. The PLO Charter calls for the destruction of Israel.
The Arab League’s Charter states its goal is to eradicate the Zionist entity.
Hezbollah leader Nasarallah: If they (Jews) all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide. (Daily Star, Oct. 23, 2002)
The planned Second Holocaust extends far beyond Israel. Leaflets were distributed in major British cities which included slogans such as: “The final hour will not come until the Muslims kill the Jews.”
Britain’s response? “police appeared reluctant to prosecute because the calls to fight the Jews were carefully couched in quotes from the Koran.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1370900/Extremist-backs-%27kill-Jews%27-poster.html
I would like to say that even in Muslim majority countries, it is unIslamic to rape or mistreat women. This is an act of tribalism. They are two different things. Islam does not condone the mistreatment of women.(If he calls himself a Muslim and does such a thing to a woman he IS NOT following Islam) A woman is only stoned if she is an adulterer, the man is also stoned and all of this requires 4 witnesses seeing the act of actual sex happening. Rape is rape and a woman is not punnished for that.
As far as kicking the cat, please kick mine when he gets up on the computer desk and I’m looking the other way. I think I get the pop ups from the kitty porn he watches.
Rape happens all of the time in the US. Watch the bay news 9 in the Tampa area. Its sick how some people just like to point their fingers at the Arabs for this when this act goes beyond race. So quit being such a racist, It’s just not right, for shame.
Sardondi, has somewhat a point in his comment. Men were meant to work and support the household. Women were meant to deal with the caring of the house and all of what happens in it…. dishes,cooking,cleaning,ironing etc etc. Women are not meant to do the work of man however, these days in this age many will disagree and I say … TOO BAD! It is in every Holy Book that a womans role is in the house and how dare anyone who knocks Donna Reed doing her houseword in heels and a pearl necklace. (haha I may have kinda dated myself there :O)
Being a woman myself….a Muslim (not always having been) what? I am a muslim– get your minds from the gutters– freaks!) woman born, raised, living in, and working in the west,having to support a home. Having had an unemployed husband who couldn’t get his narrow behind off the sofa unless you put the remote out of reach…I need not continue there.
The point being is all men are guilty of wrong doing against women, it has nothing to do with religion. If you like I can list many women over the years who have had drunkerds as husbands who would beat the within an inch of their lives,some of the Christians and some Jews (you can’t just blame Muslim men for this(idiot men are idiot men). All groups have bad men! Oh and btw, I’m single and not looking so don’t go thinking I’m defending Muslim men because I’m trying to bag one… I’m not that kind of woman.
James, in comment 29 you made many good points. Kudos to you, I couldn’t have said it better myself.HAHA Harpy county….good one! I do remember the woodstock thing, I almost went to that and couldn’t go due to some unforseen circumstances and Thanked God I didn’t go when I saw all what happened on the reports. Alhamdulillah!
AND WOW Linda, hate much? Tone it down sista. Lemme guess, anyone who likes Muslims is an anti-semite? Duh hun your arab cousins are semites too. By the by, this crap you posted has absolutly nothing to do with the subject of this particular conversation so sew a button over it.Wow I now feel like I need a shower with a steele brush after reading that flaming bag of hate.
Getting back to the subject I should hope all of you are saying a prayer for Ms. Logan. It was a horrible thing that happened to her. Insha’Allah the men who did this to her suffer the greatest penalty.
Lastly all of you who have posted with the exception of Linda here, seem to be a fun bunch. Good for you all, I wish you all peace and look foward to seeing comments.
salam
Sincerely? Understand please, I have a slight trust issue on that subject, not unlike some posters at the link. Best to ya.
No matter how hard I try, I can’t Reply-Link my comments more than ~50% of the time. So sad. #39 was for Delia.
#38 orianayonva, you too seem chill, but perhaps some love to Linda? She’s what I think is properly stressed– things have happened as she said. Coming together, at times with all you have got – one person – to show “I’m no threat” and I’d fight (for the most part) to protect you from harm – is the one great way to reduce fears & come together.
This can between genders, where there are far too many fears in both directions, from men knowing a single nasty word and they’re jailed and backpeddling for life because “it’s the law” as every cops answers the pleading men and every bail bondsmen shakes his head at the devolved justice (spoken in the Bible “to never justify crimes by following the crowd, or let judgement favor the weak or wealthy inappropriately, but let absolute fairness always decide”); to the usual, more infamous misdeeds between the sexes.
This can be between religions, where fears run rampant. What is the crux that matters? Actual physical harm in “real time.” People are obsessed that an influence from someone else will change them and their children – that they willingly kill or torture others. That’s certainly influential – in the worst way. Influence by durectly stating your religion and “I won’t harm you,” or close to that.
Damn, I am glad you passed the day alive. I would really hate to hear someone I knew, a long time ago was hurt. I understand alot of the points above, but being close takes my judgement down a notch.
Life is Good!!!!
Tstew
What a beautiful bunch of zionazi barbarians!
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