A Jewish Intifada
For the Israeli government and mainstream media, this was a grave new escalation in the ongoing dispute between the state and hard-line, anti-democratic settlers who increasingly reject the authority of the state’s institutions.
A group of religious-nationalist Jews had occupied the disputed four-story Hebron building since March 2007. Called the “House of Contention” by the media and the “House of Peace” by the settlers, it lies on a road that leads to the Cave of the Patriarchs. The site is revered by Jews, Christians, and Muslims as the burial place of Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Rebecca, Jacob, and Leah. But that veneration has on several occasions been expressed with violence.
It is yet another chapter in the tense and bloody history of Hebron. In 1929, during the British mandate over Palestine and at a time of rising tension between competing Jewish and Arab nationalism, Arabs turned on the ancient Jewish community of Hebron and massacred 67 of them — including children and yeshiva students. The British authorities ordered all Jews evacuated from the city, which fell under Jordanian control after 1948. No Jews lived in the city from 1929 until 1967, when the Israeli army occupied the West Bank following the Six Day War. Shortly after that, a group of religious nationalist Jews took up residence in the heart of Hebron. Despite a heavy IDF presence, there are frequent outbursts of violence between the Jews and Arabs of Hebron.
In 1994, an American-born settler named Baruch Goldstein infamously opened fire on a room full of Muslims at prayer, killing 29 and injuring 125. The enraged crowd bludgeoned him to death. While the majority of Israelis expressed shame and revulsion at Goldstein’s act, for some he was a hero — as witnessed by his well-tended gravestone in the nearby Jewish settlement of Kiryat Arba. Today, about 500 Jews live in the heart of Hebron, amongst some 170,000 Palestinians. They exchange verbal insults, vandalize one another’s property, and commit violent attacks on a regular basis.
Following this latest outburst, in an attempt to prevent more extremist supporters from entering Hebron, the IDF has declared the area a closed military zone.
There are at least three conflicting narratives about the latest round of violence in the West Bank’s most volatile city.
The hard-line settlers’ narrative: This land was promised to the Jews by God. We are carrying out a holy mission by living here, as our forefathers lived here during biblical times. It is inconceivable that Jewish soldiers should evict Jewish civilians from their homes anywhere — let alone in one of the holiest sites in Judaism. We capitulated too easily during the evacuation from Gush Katif. That won’t happen again. Besides, we bought the land fair and square. American-Jewish businessman Abraham Morris says that he has documented proof of having purchased the House of Contention from a Palestinian landowner.
Much of this group, which has been nicknamed “Hilltop Youth” for illegally setting up outposts on West Bank hilltops, say they also felt betrayed by the mainstream settler leadership who sold them on slogans that love would conquer all and had promised them that non-violent demonstrations were the correct path.
“I would go all the way — I would not let anyone do anything to take our land away from us,” said a 19-year-old young woman who preferred not to reveal her name, one of those who had spent several days living in the contested Hebron house.
The mainstream settlers’ narrative: These kids who are making all the trouble in Hebron are outsiders. They do not represent our youth, who are devoted to their religious studies and serve loyally in the IDF. But on the other hand, the government is using a tiny minority amongst us in order to incite mainstream Israel against the settler movement by claiming that we are all a bunch of extremists who reject the rule of law. This is cynical manipulation by the government, which is trying to show the Americans and the Palestinians that they are keeping their promise to work toward a Palestinian state. And furthermore, why shouldn’t a Jew live anywhere he wants in Israel?
The Palestinians’ narrative: The Palestinian who allegedly sold the property to Abraham Morris claims he was duped. In one version he says he did not realize he was selling to a Jew, let alone a settler; and in another version, he says the sale never took place at all and that the settlers invaded the house. For the Palestinians the legitimacy of the sale is irrelevant. Pointing to the Muslim gravestones across from the house spray painted with stars of David and anti-Muslim slogans and other evidence of vandalism, they say it is clear the Jews occupying the house have come to make trouble.
The Israeli government’s narrative: The settlers are defying the law. The Supreme Court ruled (Hebrew link) that the army had the right to force the occupants of the disputed house to leave. Jews who live in Hebron require a heavy IDF presence for protection and we refuse to assign more money and more troops to protecting a small ideological group that is “motivated by hatred for the State and hatred for police.” Kadima leader Tzipi Livni delivered a speech in which she declared that Israel would not tolerate a “Wild West state” in Hebron.
Meanwhile, there is one big winner in all this mess — Hamas. The Islamist party lost no time in pointing out that its bitter rival Fatah, led by President Mahmoud Abbas, could not provide any protection for the Palestinian residents of Hebron. Last month a U.S.-trained battalion of Palestinian Authority security forces was very publicly deployed in the areas of Hebron that are supposed to be under PA control. But Abbas, fearing an escalating conflict, would not give the order to deploy the forces against the settlers. Officially the IDF was supposed to do the job — but did not.
The specter of more violence and the youth’s unwavering ideological stance and willingness to break taboos against Jews attacking others Jews, is prompting a wave of public hand-wringing.
The Israeli media appealed to Jews’ historical memories of their persecutions of their own people by dubbing the rampages nothing less than pogroms. Black smoke filled the darkening sky as olive groves were set ablaze and attempts were made to set Palestinian homes on fire. Video footage captured a gun-toting settler opening fire on two members of a Palestinian family and in one case Israeli journalists tried to protect a Palestinian family from a mob of settler youth as they waited for security forces to arrive.
Writing in Friday’s Yediot Ahronot, Nahum Barnea, one of Israel’s leading commentators, warned that grim days lie ahead: “The continuation will not be in this house, but elsewhere, and it will be harsh and cruel. Arabs will attack Jews. Jews will attack Arabs. Jews will attack Jews. The hatred is great, and too many elements have an interest in fueling it.”
And in a strongly worded editorial in Haaretz entitled “Standing Up to Jewish Terrorists,” a call was made to reign in what is being seen as a dangerous movement within the settler community.
The time has come to cease the vague characterizations and call a spade a spade. We are not dealing with “marginal groups,” “extremists who have gone out of control,” and other attempts at verbal acrobatics that are designed to paper over a harsh reality. For a long time now, settlers in Hebron and other areas of Judea and Samaria (and East Jerusalem) have engaged in unruly behavior whose only goal is to violently threaten the Palestinians while undermining Israel’s sovereignty. By any official standard recognized worldwide, this is terrorism that sows fear and disrupts the proper management of a state.
A similar warning was sounded by columnist Ben Caspit, writing in Maariv.
These are not errant weeds, we are talking about a well-ordered organization with a hierarchy, with rabbis, with separate incitement, with a combat doctrine and with weaponry. The worst thing is that they have messianic insanity in their eyes and deep self-persuasion in the justness of their path and the need to rise heavenwards in blood and fire and smoke. This monster has to be stopped now. Afterwards, it will be too late.
I wonder if these “jinalists” are living on land in TA “stolen” from their arab friends?
Here’s hot tip – once you finish helping the arabs ethnically cleanse Yesha of Jews, the arabs are coming for you in TA.
What are you going to do? Shout “but Habibi, I worked with you to expel the Jews, just like the kapos and judenrat in Germany? Why are you trying to deport me?”
Sounds like there’s finally an equal and opposite reaction to the decades of rampaging BS artists calling themselves Palestinians. Now if the “tiny minority” “motivated by hatred for the State and hatred for police” can manage to start launching rockets into Arab neighborhoods or blowing bus loads of children they might finally get the world at large to acknowledge that such things are terrorist acts rather than “understandable reactions” to “years of oppression”.
I’m always amazed at the violence committed in the name of religion. If humans as a whole could step back at look at themselves, we’d be amazed at our senseless atrocities towards one another. Organized religions seem to always be at the root of all evil somehow. Isn’t that odd? When will we ever learn? Christians, Jews, Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, you name it….all claim to be peaceful religions and yet it always comes down to more war and bloodshed. I’m definitely not an atheist. There is a God we will answer to some day. I’m certain that he did not create us or this Earth for us to kill each other over. Amazing what humans will do with free will isn’t it? I hate to say it but I know it to be true….Humanity has fought and died over religion since the dawn of recorded time. There will be no end to the violence unless people can see outside of their own little world and think what the purpose of creation was in the first place. I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
I’m with Thinking Person on this. Slaughter in the name of God is a very presumptuous act on the part of the killers, regardless of their religious persuasion. Although there seems to be a huge imbalance when you tote up the scores. There seem to be a much greater number killed lately in the name of Allah than in the name of Jesus.
One small point though, Thinking Person,,, why did you list Christians and Catholics separately?
John B….Why did I list Christians and Catholics separately? Mainly due to the fact that I, personally, view them as two different entities. I could have been clearer by listing all of the sub-categories of Christians like Protestants, Methodists and Baptists, etc, etc. I also think that Catholics would say that they were Christians but that a non-Catholic would never say they were Catholic in any sense. I’m just muddying the waters here but hopefully you can get where I was coming from.
Thinking Person: I see where you are coming from. The Catholic Church murdered Protestants for years during the dark ages. I know some Catholics that when asked if they are Christians respond by saying, “No, I’m Catholic”….I don’t understand.
There are extremist in every religion and it’s sad when they take to murdering others based on their differences. If I remember correctly, all of the religions you listed teach that murder is not acceptable.
I am absolutely sick of the “religion is the root of all evil” argument. Pick up a GD history book. What religion were the Stalinists defending when they starved and murdered millions of people in the USSR in the 30′s? Or the Maoists? Or any other 20th century cult of personality? Let’s go back even further. Napoleon, Ghengis kahn, Caesar. What religions were they defending? I think those that feel the need to trash an entire religion (I also feel they have hidden agendas) are ignoring the fact that just about any philosophy that has been proposed for good has been hijacked by those seeking power. If you really think about it, Thinking Person, the real root of all evil is wanting something for nothing.
About time. Maybe now we can finally talk about the real root causes. After all every terrorist must have a legitimate greivance, right?
Oddly enough the greivance seems to be, when you get right down to it, that their government has been negotiating with PLO terrorists and their allegedly legitimate successors.
Nobody ever accused the Jews of being stupid. Terrorism works.
getaclue….I disagree. Your point is flawed because most tyrants murdered not to defend a religion but to snuff one out (ie Hitler and the Jews). I wasn’t “trashing an entire religion” as you put it. I was pointing out that ALL religions have used violence as a means to an end at one point or another under the guise of peace. I’m afraid you’ve skipped quite a few chapters in your history books friend. I’ll play along with your argument here though….what are Muslim extremists fighting for?
The USSR in the 30s? Excuse me? To quote you, “pick up a GD history book.”
The conflicts you mentioned were about MONEY. Pray that it doesn’t happen today.
meh…this happens in israel with the regularity of a clockwork, it just made news this time due to slow news day, or glitch in the matrix.
as much as i am on settlers’ side, many of them are utterly insane people.
To “Thinking Person” and his/her synchophant “John B.” I love your bumper-sticker mentality. Oh yes, “organized religions seem to always be at the root of all evil somehow.” Oh my, yes. Can you please expend some brain matter so as to discover that religion is far from some sort of basic denominator for all the world’s evil, or shall we say “war”, which is what you really mean. In reality the vast majority of major conflict had nothing to do with religion, at all. Hitler waged war because of some religious preference? The Kaiser and all the other European leader started slaughtering each other’s people in the early 1900′s because of what religion? Stalin murdered millions based upon what religious article? Pol Pot? Mao? We’ve have 100+ million killed in the last century alone for causes that had nothing to do with religion. Let’s not even go back to the time of recorded history when Greek farmers lined up against each other with spears and shields to contest ownership for a piece of rocky turf. Again, not religion based. I understand that we live in a confused, sick, celebrity-tranced culture where meaningless sayings like “I’m not religious, but I am spiritual!” are accepted by the numb minded massed. But just a little thinking may reveal the falacy of your conclusion. Can you give it a go, hmmm? But if you wish to stick with your feel good, bumper-sticker approach, I’ve got one for you: “arms are for hugging, not for making war!” Yeah!
To “Ms Attitude”: Oh yes, single out those evil Catholics. Oh yes, the Catholic Church is the root cause of all religious evil. Nevermind that Protestants murdered Catholics by the basket, for religious reasons and not. Forget that Muslims have been on a rampage against Jews for centuries, for religious reasons and otherwise. I guess in your estimate if a Catholic man walks into a 7-11 and guns down the Protestant store clerk in a robbery attempt, the act qualifies as a religious crime and is a clear indictment of that murdering Catholic Church. I have a good idea! Maybe you should buy one of the enlightend bumper-stickers that have the various religious symbols that, together, spell out “coexist”. But of course to coexist peacfully we’ll have to first knock off all those murdering Catholics. What a boob…..
re: getaclue
well, a quasireligion named communism. however, i think it’s refreshing that you dare to oppose one of the idols of multiculturalists. namely the hatred upon everything religious.
what comes to islam. it is just a rather lousy copy of the torah and the eastern european christianity. not a pure religion at all, in fact, but a politico-ideological system, that, like communism, was an advancement of the prevailing societal order but coming short with the core ideas of the true wealth of say, just religiosity.
the writers of the original piece show, that there must be a lot people living in modern israel, who cannot differentiate between the ends and the means.
intifada… my **s
That really is frightening. I do hope this is not the logical result of making excuses for some of the more, um, antisocial Palestinian behavior.
Shooting unarmed civilians is murder, not a political statement. Unacceptable regardless of why.
Rashputin might be on to something and who knows where the rabbit hole will go.
Let’s see today, wherever it is,Malaisia, israel, India, England,US… it seems islamist are killing indiscriminatly, thinking they’re owed some kind of divine justice, or thinking they can obtain whatever they want through fear and by force. what we’re seing in israel I think is only a response to many years of uncurbed violence, death of relatives and friends: i often asked myself what i would do if, a brother, a parent, family member or close friend was killed by a bomb, or murdered in some way by one of these Islamist, palestinian or any group of people. what would i do if everyday some kind of bomb would explode, threatening me or my family… i came to the conclusion, that i would be tired to try to find a peacefull solution hen theonly response is violence, after so many years, and i would probably decide that this is a war where I must protect my family even if it means going into an open war. I just cannot imagine accepting the death of a son or daugther without looking for some kind of justice, even if it’s revenge.
Religion has always been a pretext for taking from others, whether it’s their wealth or land, or just for power, thoughout ages you can see it.
this palestinian Jewish war started 50 some years ago, it was for the land,Palestinians did not accept the Un resolution.. Again the fault is noone, if not Great Britain who promised the lnd to both of them.. it has not changed as of today. who does the land belong to? who cares, the truth is, do the palestinian really want a peace, some of them, sure, but definitly not all of them, a large part wants the destruction of israel; but what i don’t get really, is that they don’t realize it’s not feasible.
Palestinian owe their pain partly to other arab countries that have been using them for years, as a pretext to be at war with israel, who have been using them becaue they couldn’t forgive their blatant defeat in 2 wars where the odds were largely in their favor.
I have looked around the world and it seems that if you don’t accomodate Islamist, they will try to resolve the issues by force and make you.
I feel sorry for the moderates, but i the same time i blame them for not keeping order in their own “house”, but again are they really a majority, or as polls suggest, do they understand and sometime even silently support their more extreme muslim brothers…
Honestly,I’m tired to hear that Islam is a religion of peace, because it’s not, Koran means submission, and if youdon’t submit, they’ll make you: there is no peace in there. I’m tired of missplaced politically correctness, it’s time to call terrorists, terrorists. Palestinian and israeli place would be inverted, Jews would probably be slaughtered in a short period of time and there would be no talk of a 2 states solution. I do give credit to Israel for their patience in this matter even if I don’t see any end at sight with Ezbollah on one side and Hamas on the other, both financed by Iran.
Only my opinion.
I think everyone should stick to their own religion and not criticise everyone else.
John B:
There seem to be a much greater number killed lately in the name of Allah than in the name of Jesus.
Lately? What about before that? Countless Muslims lost their lives needlessly at the hands of other religions, the same way the Jews did at the hands of the Nazis.
It’s no use having a debate on this. Killings like this are wrong no matter how you see it. Whatever war that is being fought should be fought in the battlefield with soldiers, not in neighbourhoods, attacking civilians.
I hope peace to all .We said ‘salam ‘ which is means ‘peace’all the time when we meeting others.I think there are many making plans to destroy one ethetic or religion . US and their leaders try to explain their war on Iraq is from the God !!!! They killing iraqi peoples with the permission from God .Which silly idea .and I wonder that there are many people who believe in this lie .It is a religion war besides the OIL war and to control on this .They have kill lessn than one million iraqi people and destroy the whole country because the lied on the whole world that Iraq have destructive weapons !!!Iran have a nuclear program and USA could n’t work any thing with them and they can not work any thing in the future .If USA know that Iraq have destructive weapon they can’t attack Iraq in the 2003 .
I wonder why this is getting so much publicity. Beating Palestinians and torching their olive groves has been going on for some time and of course the Israeli police and army are powerless (do nothing) to stop it. These radical settlers are no better than the Hamas rocketeers. Fortunately, lots of Israelis are sick of these guys too.
Death is an irreversible event. Those killed for whatever reason are gone. We as earthlings should think deep about our existence and the possibility of wiping ourselves out of the earth. The Jews were brought back to the middle east after an attempt by Hitler to exterminate them. They were the victims then but are now turning to be the aggressors. Some do not even obey supreme court ruling in the name of extremism. Shooting civilians at close range by an extrimist must be condamed just as if a palestinian was to do the same to a jew. The only basis for peaceful coexistence in the middle east will be justice to all.
12. James: I was only pointing out why the Catholic Church is often listed seperately from Christian. There are extremist in all “religions”. They go against their doctrines about murder. Like another commentor stated, the killings are about power, ie: land, money. They hold the belief that if you don’t believe the way they do then you are evil and don’t deserve money or land. (Nazi’s killing of the Jew’s). Hitler seeking power, wrote in Mein Kampf. “… I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord’s work.” Years later, when in power, he quoted those same words in a Reichstag speech in 1938. Three years later he informed General Gerhart Engel: “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.” He never left the church, and the church never left him. Great literature was banned by his church, but his miserable Mien Kampf never appeared on the Index of Forbidden Books.
Within our own religions we need to watch out for extremist groups using our Holy books to wreck havok on others. We need to call them out and hold them accountable. We need to teach tolerance of other religions. Isn’t that the American way?
So many words spent about the Palestinians and the Jews, so little result.
Except the Jews continue to to contribute to the well being of the human race by way of research, patents and brain power.
The Palestinians and Muslims give us IEDs, suicide bombers and terrorist attacks.
Speaking as an alien who is stuck on earth through no fault of his own it is surprising to me that most of you don’t recognize this.
Countless Muslims lost their lives needlessly at the hands of other religions
One hundred million people were killed by Muslims in India alone. It looks like you wonder that in places whetre Muslims have perpetrated the motsz hoorible massaacres the lmocaéls didn’t hacve the right to push back. Also your moral equivalency is repellent: Jews hadn’t been slaughtering Germans in the years before the Shoah.
Judenrein… at the end of the day that is the issue which defines this struggle. I can only recoil when reading phrases like “The site is revered by Jews, Christians, and Muslims…”, as though Muslims and Christians had an equal and integral history related to Hebron comparable to the Jews. Both Muslims and Christians owe their ideological existance to the foundation of Judaism, but both have begrudged the minimum of respect and recognition of that foundation. The last post states: “Countless Muslims lost their lives needlessly at the hands of other religions, the same way the Jews did at the hands of the Nazis… and “Whatever war that is being fought should be fought in the battlefield with soldiers, not in neighbourhoods, attacking civilians.” Statements like that make a mockery of the violent and sadistic history of Muslims and Christians against the Jews, and the resulting demographics which authentically frame this “debate”. The issue of the “House of Peace” and the Jews re-emergence in Hebron is one of whether “Judenrein” and “submission” to the ultimate authority of Islam will be allowed to prevail. Anyone who fails to “understand” this is either stupid or dishonest, now, which is it?
# 15 – Mark
Perhaps the “Rabbit Hole” leads to JUDEA – Israel’s Evil Twin. -S-
better brace yourselves folks:
it’s gonna get worse when barack sends in nato troops.
they won’t be able to stop arba on jew violencve but they will be able to stop IDF on arab violence.
they’ll be as effective as the us marines in 1983 in beirut.
NATO?!!?!?!?!?
comprised of the antisenbitic nations which performed or permitted the holocaust.
the arabs “government” in the west bank will “plausibly” deny any involvemtn in anti-Jew attacks and natao will satnd aside.
arab government – HAH: gaza.
lookat it folks.
the jews split – lock stock and barrel.
look what the gazan arabs did to it!
and they rocket attack israel everyday.
this is what barack – and the “doves” – wants to have happen in the west bank.
these doves…. they’re not for peace; they’re on the other side!
hebron is more as jewish as any place on earth.
no arab has any legitiamte claim on hebron.
every other effin nation on earth has borders which they carved out via war.
only iosrael wasn’t allowed to keep what they won. this is antisemitic.
many MANY other places on warth are more violent and more deadly and the doves stand by and do nothing – SAY nothing.
congo, rwanda, kashmir, thailand (4000 dead since 9/11), india (in india 4000 dead since 9/11).
but there’s no talk of forcing the democratic pluralistic nations to concede in these regions.
the un isn’t saying thailand should cede southern thailand.
obama isn’t saying philippines shouold cede the moros.
but the jews shouold retreat – surrender!
the whole freakin focus is always on the JOOOOOZE: they who “casued the iraq war!”
the jooooze / likud / neocon / israel lobby / zionists : more evil than jihadists- ACCORDING TO DOVES / LEFTIES.
i think obama should give his speech from GAZA.
i think obama should give his speech from GAZA.
i think obama should give his speech from GAZA.
yes: obama fellating muslims from gaza. perfect!
that’s the future of the arab nations if we don’t stand up for israel and democracy.
instead of appeasing fatah or hamas or hizballah or iran or assad we shpuld be smashing them.
or would you rather live like they do in tehran than tel aviv?
your choice.
6. Ms Attitude:
“Thinking Person: I see where you are coming from. The Catholic Church murdered Protestants for years during the dark ages.”
Just a quick historical note here: the Dark Ages, Europe only, ran from around 500 AD to around 800 AD. The religious wars in Europe started in 1420 AD with the Husssite Wars and were basically over by 1700 AD. They were not even close in time. The fact of it is that there were very few innocent parties during the religious wars, Protestant or Catholic.
An freaking disgusting article. a glitch of pajamamedia, or are you swerving left? Quoque tu, Brute!
and where do these two individuals come from, leftovers of Haaretz ?
What do you do when the police force you to give back some of what you stole? Go on a rampage against the victims of course.
What a bunch of cowardly thugs!!!
I still think that that we’ve thrown God under the bus in order to save our “religions”. We can argue all day over who started what when and what Holy sites belong to whom and on and on for eternity. Do we really all believe that is our purpose here? Really? How much more bloodshed will be needed before we open our eyes and realize that we weren’t commanded to kill each other over whatever religion or belief system we’re associating ourselves with. We were supposed to love one another right? One of these days we will surely have to answer for how we carried that out and I’m guessing that killing and belittling and “cleansing” the world of others created by God in his name will surely not bring the outcome we’re all hoping for.
Ms Attitude and Thinking Person might be interested to learn that fewer people than are aborted in America every week were executed during the thousand years or so spanned by the three main Inquisitions.
The often referred to “Spanish Inquisition,” which was conducted by the government, not the Church, carried out somewhere between two and five thousand executions.
In another example, in the British Ulster Province also known as “Northern Ireland:” the endemically-alcoholic, bank-robbing, drug-and-gun-running members of the feral packs of gutless anonymously mass-murdering gangsters that so grandiosely calls itself the “IRA,” may be mainly Catholic and their victims mainly protestant. But those facts are only incidental to the Mafia-like power politics that drives their activities.
the real pogrom was the idf versus the jews.
the aftermath was a riotous spasm.
not good, but … a result of the IDF provocation
IF THIS EXCUSE IS OKAY FOR THE PALIS, THEN WHY NOT FOR JEWS!?!?!?!/
ONLY ANTISEMITES WON’T ACCEPT THIS.
THE LEFTIES ARE CONSTANTLY SAYING THAT IDF PRESENCE PROVOKES/ERGO EXCUSES PALI VIOLENCE.
WHAT’S GOOD FOR THE GOOSE….
so libs: stfu.
Ms Attitude: Oh yes, Hitler was a practicing Catholic. I forgot that. What Church was it that he attended weekly? Our Lady of Perpetual Nazism, was it? Yes, you’ve hit the nail. Hitler killed Jews because of his Catholic learnings. In fact, I’ll pick up my Catholic version of the bible to re-read those numerous passages that discuss killing off all the Jews. Hitler said alot of things. I’m happy you’ve focused in on two of his more inconsequential statements to clear everything up. You’ve convinced me that World War II was a war of religion waged by the Catholic Church against European Jewry through the Church’s proxy, Hitler. Yes, I’ve got it now. Thanks so much.
The “journalists” who wrote this article got an important fact wrong in the 4th paragraph: “…250 Jews who had defied a Supreme Court order to evacuate a disputed house.”
In fact, the Supreme Court said the government had the RIGHT to evacuate the house — there was NO ORDER to evacuate.
As they got that very important fact wrong (the evacuation was POLITICAL, not required by law), I suspect that much of the rest of the article is also inaccurate. I have not seen the worst accusations elsewhere.
More background on the protest:
The government very unreasonably decided to do evacuate the building even though no court has ruled that the buyers did anything wrong or that the sale is invalid.
The protesters were against the government evacuating people who bought a house, and documented the transaction fully, including having the seller on videotape agree to the sale.
The police brutally evacuated families, and at least one woman was hopitalized as a result.
The “disruptions” were designed to make the government think twice about similar discriminatory evacuations in the future. Discriminatory because the government does not evacuate people from their homes because of an unresolved dispute between buyers and sellers, but here it did.
Brian Richard Allan….So because (using your facts) fewer people were killed during the Inquisition than are aborted every week we are supposed to gather what? I’m not following your argument. Both are heinous and wrong so I’m not understanding the logic of weighting one over the other. Also, I’d like to add that just because (again using your facts, not mine) a government murders a group of people (in this instance non-Catholics during the Inquisition) and not the actual church itself per-se, that doesn’t constitute violence under the guise of religion as I noted earlier? I’m guessing you wouldn’t call ethnic cleansing in Africa religious violence either then even though the masses being snuffed out as we speak all fall into one ethnic and religious group? Following your logic, Hitler, being a dictator and not a church, would not be accused of killing in the name of religion even though he targeted Jews. I’m desperately trying to not think that it’s views like yours that have allowed or turned a blind eye to this in the past. Please prove me wrong.
good for the jews. they should also leaflet the arabs that bibi is coming soon to their neighborhood. hopefully, that will frighten them all to death. whatever it takes.
Actually Hitler was born in a catholic zone and, probabaly, raised as a catholic but saying he was a practicing catholic is an outright lie. Nazism was atheistic and actively sought to reduce Church’s influence. One of its first steps was to conscript children and teenagers into the Hitler Jugend in order to keep them away from Catholic or Protesntant scout-like organizations and from reciving religious education. Also if you look at a map from Nazi vote and you compare it with rate of cathlicism (known through the people who paid the church tax) you find a near perfect coincidence… but in negative. It was the Protestant and atheistic districts who voted for Hitler.
While we are at it: the “practicing catholic” (according to one of commenters) Hitler, in fact deplored Frank’s victory at Poitiers against the Arabs. He thought that “given their innate racial it would heva been better Francks losing and Germans converting to Islam. Given their racial superiority they would have quickly overthrown Arba doministion but with a faith who Islam guaranteed paradise for warriors they would have been invincible and conquered the world”. These were the world of the so-called practicing catholic Hitler.
And here is another of his sentences: “The bigger and the more outrageous a lie the better the chances people will believe it since they will think you wouldn’t have dared to tell it if it weren’t true”.
Thinking Person,
Jews are a nation and a race, even according to Hitler, so Hitler was targeting a nation and a people, not a religion. His attacks against the Czechs, Poles, French, Russians, Slavs… all attacks against what he considered to be nations and races.
You should make yourself familiar with history before using it in arguments. You know nothing of the history of Western religion, not of Judaism and certainly nothing of the middle, dark, classical or modern ages. Learn, then think.
The only time in history I recall “countless muslims losing their lives” is when the Crusaders finally took a stand to protect themselves and their countries from the rampaging muslim invaders.
These days muslims are more apt to be killed by other muslims using bombs made in Iran as apposed to a sword made in Europe.
Disgusting article which deny jews any right to their promised land
-hebron is the place where our historic forefathers and mothers were buried
A vivid community persisted thru the centuries till 1929 when a arab pogrom chased all jews
They returned after 67
Peace house was legally purchased and paid
Why are jews denied their property??
May I remind all readers here that if you represent all arab countries as a soccer field,Israel landmass equals a matchbox…..
I know,too much for the filthy jews who have no right to a country….
“The time has come to cease the vague characterizations and call a spade a spade. We are not dealing with “marginal groups,” “extremists who have gone out of control,” and other attempts at verbal acrobatics that are designed to paper over a harsh reality. For a long time now, settlers in Hebron and other areas of Judea and Samaria (and East Jerusalem) have engaged in unruly behavior whose only goal is to violently threaten the Palestinians while undermining Israel’s sovereignty. By any official standard recognized worldwide, this is terrorism that sows fear and disrupts the proper management of a state.”
I wish they could come to the same conclusions about the Palestinians
28. Mike stated:
“Just a quick historical note here: the Dark Ages, Europe only, ran from around 500 AD to around 800 AD. The religious wars in Europe started in 1420 AD with the Husssite Wars and were basically over by 1700 AD. They were not even close in time. The fact of it is that there were very few innocent parties during the religious wars, Protestant or Catholic.”
Mike, the dark age is also known as the middle age…commonly dated from the fall of the Western Roman Empire in the 5th century to the beginning of the Early Modern Period in the 16th century, marked by the division of Western Christianity in the Reformation, the rise of humanism in the Italian Renaissance, and the beginnings of European overseas expansion. There is some variation in the dating of the edges of these periods which is due mainly to differences in specialization and focus of individual scholars. Commonly seen periodization ranges span the years ca. 400–476 AD (the sackings of Rome by the Visigoths to the deposing of Romulus Augustus) to ca. 1453–1517 (the Fall of Constantinople to the Protestant Reformation begun with Martin Luther’s Ninety-Five Theses). Dates are approximate, and are based upon nuanced arguments.
P.Ami…You seriously are not claiming there is no Jewish religion? I hope you can ammend your comment before others point out your shortcomings.
32. Brian Richard Allen: I don’t think the issue of abortion is solely religious. It is murder and should carry the same laws against it.
34. James and 38. JFM: I’m not saying the Catholics were killing the Jews, what I’m saying and by using Hitler’s quotes is that he hid behind a religion that is against murder….just as many are doing today. Not all Jews hate Muslims and vice versa. Not all Muslims consider Christians infidels….it’s just that the crazy ones that use religion get all of the attention. The law abiding, friendly, etc. person of a different faith isn’t on the news nor are they scaring the heck out of us.
This will open up a can of worms but I can’t resist….teach ALL religions to your children. Understanding each other is the key…we will see that we are all a lot alike!
“These are not errant weeds, we are talking about a well-ordered organization with a hierarchy, with rabbis, with separate incitement, with a combat doctrine and with weaponry. The worst thing is that they have messianic insanity in their eyes and deep self-persuasion in the justness of their path and the need to rise heavenwards in blood and fire and smoke. This monster has to be stopped now. Afterwards, it will be too late.”
Ben Caspit, a classic and typical shallow left-wing demagogue who wouldn’t have the guts to write the truth in any arab capital or backwater about the predominate muslim history, of it’s imperial goals, conquests, destruction, mass murder, torture and enslavement over half the earth since the inception and ascendance of Mohammed to that cult. At the end of the day this particular issue is all (and only) about Judenrein prevailing in the first of the two most holy sites of Judaism, and the sleazy left-wing aiding and abetting that fascist muslim agenda. Shame on Israel’s, America’s, and the world’s left-wing charlatans, as well as the U.N. and all their related partners who can only muster phony token indignation at the presence of the re-emergence in history of several thousand Jews in Hebron, while glossing over the current monstrous human rights crimes emanating from the left and muslim world, from Tibet to Darfur to Africa to last week’s events in India. You people should be ashamed…
“This will open up a can of worms but I can’t resist….teach ALL religions to your children. Understanding each other is the key…we will see that we are all a lot alike!”
An authentic, unbiased and honest “understanding” of the basic premises that underlie Mohammed’s totalitarian cult will, indeed, set you free, unless you are running scared and/or some kind of pathetic fool…
25. Perfected Democrat said:
” . . . the violent and sadistic history of Muslims and Christians against the Jews . . .”
Tying Muslims and Christians together in this type of blanket slander is typical of the unthinking Jewish radical. If Jews ever wonder why they can’t find support for their stupid and boundless cultural hypochondria, they should examine the rubbish that they teach to each other. How can Jews so easily forget all the Christians that sacrificed to free the victims of the Nazis? The answer is the Jews really don’t give a crap about anyone else, including the Christian nations that protect them to this day.
(Un)Thinking Person:
Of course there is Jewish religion! It’s called Judaism, and it’s a basis of both Christianity and Islam. The point YOU are trying to make is that Hitler was destroying Judaism while following Christianity, which is totally false.
Hitler was destroying Jews, and he was one of the first people who made a distinction – usually Judaism and Jews were one and the same, there were no such thing as practicing Jew. Any Jew who did not practice Judaism was not a Jew. Jews who converted to other religion stopped being Jews. Hitler changed that. He was going after practicing and non-practicing jews, after converts, after half-, quoter-, etc jews, after anyone who had anything to do with jews in their family, even if relations were by marriage and distant. To him Judaism was only a religion who’s followers needed to be destroyed, not because of their religious believes but because they were Jews.
The one thing nazism was not was a religious thing. There was quite a lot of mysticism (you know, like swastika – ancient symbol of sun), which would tie in very well with modern “I’m am not religious but I am spiritual” thing that liberals so fond of.
But I am sure you already know all that, or are you?
As long as the Messiah hasn’t arrived, can Jews claim the land? If the Jews can claim the land, then the Messiah has, finally, come, with His new laws. Now Who could it be?
Beit Hashalom House was purchased by an American from an Arab man. The “closing” was audio taped and is proof that a sale took place between a willing buyer and a willing seller. The American then gave the House to Jewish Community of Hebron. His perogative. A group that had no equitable interest in this property and no lega standing by American standards went to court to undue the sale. Incredible the Supreme Court help from this unaffiliated group. Here, the Court put themselves into the shoes of a leftist politician to annul the sale. If this lawsuit took place in the US it would have been thrown out of court. But as a result the Israeli army, instead of fighting terrorists are throwing teenage girls out this building that was purchased legally and given to the Jewish Community. Unfortunately Kraft and Goldman did not give it readers a full understanding of this situation. I hope it’s not because they are using this space to push their own poltical agenda.
re: larsen i.f.
“…their stupid and boundless cultural hypochondria…”
what about sticking into facts. the whole galore of your christian and muslim philosophy of faith is based on jewish origins. ergo: they would have something to boast of, if they ever feel the need.
on the other hand: if there ever was a more distinct case of genuine jealousy sipping out of somebodys text, then be quick,larsen, and fetch the price. you got it.
Neil, there is no reason to assume that Israel can only reconstitute under the rule of a messiah as Christians think of a messiah, nor is the claim to our land only valid through the messiah. Our claim to the land is directly attested to with our circumcision ritual. Have a look at Genesis and pay attention to the chapters dealing with Abraham, Issac and the circumcision ritual.
Thinking Person, your pedantic nitpicking is boring, ignorant, and agenda driven. Arabs are squatters on my land. I want them to either migrate back to Arabia or any one of the other lands their ancestors violently conquored from other warlike shmucks. Go to Jordan. Go to Syria. Stay in Lebanon. Let them live with their Arab brothers in Kuait. Let them destablize other people’s country, not mine.
Saying Hitler was a true Christian or Catholic is like saying that Jim Jones was a true Christian. We all know the answer. But they both hid behind religion. Inasmuch as some of the murderers of today do. The hard-line religious nationalist Jews in this story were hiding behind their religion. They feel the land belongs to them because of their religious teachings. Most conquest of lands is because of religion, most protection of lands is because of religion. We are afraid the other wants to inihalate us.
This was all about enforcing a Supreme Court order until the conflicting ownership claims are sorted out. What’s the government supposed to do, back off because the assignment is messy? Israel has a conscript army and these squatters are putting our sons and daughters in harm’s way. The only issue here was whether anyone is above the law. Not even the PM, who is on his way to jail.
43. Ms Attitude:
“Mike, the dark age is also known as the middle age…commonly dated from the fall of the Western Roman Empire in the 5th century to the beginning of the Early Modern Period in the 16th century, marked by the division of Western Christianity in the Reformation, the rise of humanism in the Italian Renaissance, and the beginnings of European overseas expansion.”
Just simply not true. If you would have continued to read the Wikipedia article you would have seen that the Middle Ages themselves are divided up into 2 or 3 periods of distinct culture. The Dark Ages, circa 500 to circa 800, are called that because of the scarcity of written documents from that period of Western European history. This would not be true for Spain or the parts of Europe that were still ruled by the Byzantine Empire.
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By the way, I hope all you rich liberals out there are going to pay a bunch of taxes because Joe Biden said it’s your patriotic duty to do so and I am waiting for my share of the free stuff Obama promised me.
41. trumpeldor:
Yes! to everything you wrote. Especially Hebron. There was a solid Jewish community there, as you say, until 1929. From the time of the Exodus until the present day there have always been Jewish communities in Eretz Israel. The claim on the land has never been relinquished. Maybe these settlers do have what was criticized as a “Messianic insanity” outlook. So what! Maybe the settlers have read the prophets and believe the words therein.
Thanks Trumpledor for stating what is the obvious truth.
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By the way, I hope all you rich liberals out there are going to pay a bunch of taxes because Joe Biden said it’s your patriotic duty to do so and I am waiting for my share of the free stuff Obama promised me.
Ms Attitude says: “teach ALL religions to your children. Understanding each other is the key…we will see that we are all a lot alike!”. Yes, I agree. I can’t wait to reveal the teachings of Islam to my young child. That way he’ll learn that it’s okay to marry a 9-year old (Mohammed), it’s well withing normal behavior to steal another wife from your son (again, that rascal Mohammed), and it’s a-okay to line up 900 jews and behead them (once again, Mohammed). What’s that other Islam stuff? Oh yes, “jews are apes and swine”, convert or at least submit and pay a “poll tax”. Oh yes, very, very alike to all that Jesus stuff about turning the other cheek and doing onto others….blah, blah, blah. Oh yes Ms. Attitude, those nutty Muslims are very much like myself and my neighbors here in middle America. I’ll take your advice and run right out to Barnes and Noble to purchase a Koran so that I may understand people like bin Laden. Then we can all just get along! Viola! Silly……
“Tying Muslims and Christians together in this type of blanket slander is typical of the unthinking Jewish radical. If Jews ever wonder why they can’t find support for their stupid and boundless cultural hypochondria, they should examine the rubbish that they teach to each other. How can Jews so easily forget all the Christians that sacrificed to free the victims of the Nazis? The answer is the Jews really don’t give a crap about anyone else, including the Christian nations that protect them to this day.”
Baloney, Larsen, your crass and simplistic indignation ignores the preponderent historical record. In fact, the only Christians that I don’t easily forget, but vividly remember (ie. the Danes as well as many others), are indeed “the Christians that sacrificed to free the victims of the Nazis”, and to those I extend my genuine respect, even gratitude; And especially for those who have been stalwart advocates and defenders of the rebirth of the Jewish people in Israel after the Shoah, and through the continuing genocidal campaign by the arabs and company. However, you’re kidding yourself if you think that WWII was waged to “free the victims”, it was waged to avoid becoming victims. But there is a profound aspect of hope for humanity embodied even in that qualification and recognition.
I’m sure Satan has laughed his head off because Christians have done to each other and to the Jews what he couldn’t do using his own minions. Divide and conquer is one of his strategies, and he only has a few. The others are creating diversions and telling half-truths.
As for Hitler, Hitler was a pagan. He worshiped Norse deities and believed in a mythology that said Aryans were the descendants of Atlantians. He was definitely not a Christian of any variety, nor was he an atheist.
The most pacifist of religions is Buddhism yet there have been plenty of wars in Buddhist countries. But no Buddhist country has ever attacked another country to take them over for Buddhism. The Japanese war council were all anti-Buddhist Shinto except for the one Samurai, Admiral Yamamoto who voted against attacking the US. The dark side of Christianity and Islam comes from the dark side of Judaism. Before the Babylonian captivity Judaism wasn’t a totally monotheistic rigidly Patriarchal religion as it was after the dualistic monotheistic Zoroastrian Persians freed the Jewish elite from Babylon. Elohim originally meant the gods, in the early Semitic language El meaning “The” referred to the Head Male God and the ohim was a term of plurality, the gods. Monotheism=fanaticism. The ultimate is the state of peace of the Infinite Timeless Nirvana and not some old man in the sky.
“The answer is the Jews really don’t give a crap about anyone else, including the Christian nations that protect them to this day.”
Larsen… this is blatent and classic anti-Semitism.
58. James:
2 Corinthians 6:14 “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?”
1 Thessalonians 2:14-15: “…ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men.”
Any religion, including Christianity, can be quoted and used for hate. I don’t recommend teaching the children the hate. Pretty soon, it is estimated, that the Muslims will outnumber us Christians. I understand it to be within the next 20 years.
I have nothing else to say on this matter because I know that religion is a personal matter and no matter what I say if someone chooses to hate then there is no stopping them. No matter whose name they are doing it in.
MikeF….Please, do me a favor, go back over my posts here and please highlight where I said Hitler “”was destroying Judaism while following Christianity”". I NEVER said that. You are reading more into my point that I wrote. I never said he did anything in the name of Christianity. I said he was trying to snuff out the Jewish people. Whatever frame of reference he came to that endgame is a factor for others to argue over. I was merely pointing out that people of every religion have been subject to or instigators of religious violence. Please don’t put words in my mouth. I can speak for myself thank you very much.
Ms. Attitude….Enjoy your input on this subject and totally agree with your point about teaching children about ALL religions. Of course as pointed out by small minded hate mongers here, people will never give up clinging to their own need to elevate their own beliefs at the expense of others. I have enjoyed reading everyone’s comments though. Some are truly scary and highlight the problems that we face as a nation and a world. They will NEVER see another’s point of view. Ever. To them that somehow means defeat. Sad state of affairs.
As the press usually does they conveniently forget half the facts.The No’ar
HaGiva’ot,the socalled ”Hilltop youth”,are mainly there with parental agreement under school supervision.They squat only on gov’t land or privately bought and develop it agriculturally when not studying.but they do get uncomfortably close to arab settlements.There is afringe group of youth of irreligious dropouts,of troubled homes not affiliated withh any controlling factor that roam the hills searching to confront and destroy.
The 2 individuals that shot at 2arabs claimed self-defense and voluntarily
handed themselfes over to the state rpresentatives at locale.
Asusually the press prunes facts to suit their weltaanschaung.
Pardon my English if inadequate.
#63 Ms Attitude: “Any religion, including Christianity, can be quoted and used for hate.”
In theory that’s true, but why compare a hypothetical scenario with the reality of the hate and destruction that hordes of muslims ARE actually causing around the world?
“Pretty soon, it is estimated, that the Muslims will outnumber us Christians. I understand it to be within the next 20 years.”
Don’t believe the hype. There are currently 2.1 billion Christians vs only 1.2 bilion muslims.
Between the wars in Iraq and Afghanastan, sunni’s and shiites blowing each other up, suicide bombers, honor killings, Iran hanging homosexuals, warlords and their clans murdering each other, Israel killing hamas and hezbolah militants, famine, disease, earthquakes, mudslides and tsunamis, I doubt that muslims will ever catch up with Christians no less surpass them in number.
But that’s just my personal hype in contrast to deceptive muslim propaganda (smile)
Re: Thinking Person (64)
>>Please, do me a favor, go back over my posts here and please highlight where I said Hitler “”was destroying Judaism while following Christianity””. I NEVER said that.
>>….
>>I was merely pointing out that people of every religion have been subject to or instigators of religious violence.
I am confused here. So, Hitler was religious person (Catholic) who was instigating religious violence against other religion (judaism) or was he anti-semitic maniac who was going after particular race (jews) with no regard to their religion (or lack of thereof)? Please enlighten me as to which one it was. That way we will be very clear on what you trying to say.
MikeF….Love how you’re trying to box me in friend but as I pointed out earlier the WHY of Hitler’s mania is pointless to try and figure out. He was CRAZY. The whom he was trying to snuff out were JEWS. Thereby I made MY POINT about all religions being “subject to or instigators of religious violence”. You’re wanting to argue the reason behind Hitler’s craziness. I’m highlighting how AGAIN it’s a group being targeted for violence because of their religion. I hope you’re “enlightened” now. Would you not agree with my point? If not, why not?
Let’s see, their were around 75,000 to 80,000 Jews in Egypt in 1920 but fewer than a hundred in 2004, where did they all go? Egypt booted most of the Jews out, why shouldn’t Israel kick out the Palestinians?…Not a logical argument but fair is fair. A UN Mixed Armistice Commission upheld Israel’s complaint that Egypt was illegally blocking the Suez Canal.
“In the period 1951-1956, over 400 Israelis were killed and 900 injured as a result of the “Fedayeen” infiltrations and attacks.” -palestinefacts.org
For Egypt,re:Islam, the Suez War of 1956 was just an excuse to keep up the hostility’s, just like Palestine is now.
Take all the information with some salt.
Zeev Braude was not necessarily shooting at unarmed Palestinians in cold blood. The second settler Gabi Bibi has already been released since the court did not doubt that he shot in order to save Braude from being lynched. The spokesperson for the Israeli police claims that Braude attacked first and unprovoked and then goes on that Braude should have fled the moment he saw the Palestinians pick up stones. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3635387,00.html
Such contradictions do not enhance the credibility of the police claims, do they?
The house which Israeli journalists tried to protect belongs to the same family as the Palestinians who were a party in the violent clash when Braude und Bibi used firearms. The house is in close vicinity of the “Shalom”-”Contention” house and has been used as a strategic base for the settlers there in the past. This is NOT an innocent family being prevented by racist settlers from going about their private lifes!
Oh please, a couple of hundred Jewish people driven mad by the constant terrorism and demonisation finally react with mindless violence and this is equated with the Intifada.
What’s gone wrong with you? Is it Obamadness? My advice, join the Dems and have done with it (by “it” I am referring to rational thought).
Its well over due. Peace can wait when Innocent Izreali Blood is spilt senselessly across the land. There must be counter measures. Its time to fight the fire with an even greater inferno.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMOk7H2aWEU