A Fitting End for a Cop Killer
Whatever the derelictions committed by governors, judges, prosecutors, and parole boards, it is unlikely much will change within the system that allowed Maurice Clemmons to post bail and roam free after being arrested for the latest in his long series of felonies. The criminal justice system is vast and unwieldy, and even if the defects exposed in the Clemmons matter are repaired, there will inevitably be others that will lead to events we can only hope are less catastrophic.
But there is another aspect to this case at least as troubling as the breakdown in the system. It came as no shock to police officers, but the wider public may have been surprised to learn of the assistance Clemmons received from friends and relatives even after he was identified as the suspect wanted in the murder of four police officers. “Loyal friends, family helped Clemmons flee police,” read the headline in Wednesday’s Seattle Times.
These loyal friend and family members knew that Clemmons was already facing charges for raping a twelve-year-old girl, and now they knew he had gunned down four police officers. Which prompts the question: Is there any crime so heinous that it might have cost Clemmons even a fraction of that loyalty? Could he have killed ten police officers? A hundred? Clemmons was provided with transportation, hiding places, clean clothes, and medical attention. More than that, he was provided with compliant silence, which in this case is tantamount to complicity in the crime itself.
There were 16,272 criminal homicides committed in the United States in 2008, but only 63.6 percent of them were “cleared.” That leaves almost 6,000 killers out there among us, added to whom are all those who escaped punishment in years past. Many if not most of these killers have friends and family members who, like Clemmons’s contemptible band of enablers, know of their crimes yet remain silent.
To their great credit, police officers have been rounding up every last person who provided this aid to Clemmons. “We want to hold everybody involved accountable,” said Pierce County Sheriff Ed Troyer. And bravo for him.
And bravo for Benjamin Kelly, by whose efforts the world will be spared the spectacle of a trial for Maurice Clemmons, at which we would surely have heard from some of these same enablers. They would have regaled us with tales of his unfortunate childhood and his neglect and abuse at the hands of “the system.” And they would have told us he was really a nice guy who just snapped one day, and that he didn’t deserve to be executed because, well, that would be so mean.
Thanks to Benjamin Kelly none of that will happen, because Maurice Clemmons is dead.
And that’s a good thing.
I hope he suffered.
there is some talk about the possiblility of clemmons being influenced by islamists while he spent time in prision…if so i’d bury him with a pound of bacon.
“Thanks to Benjamin Kelly none of that will happen, because Maurice Clemmons is dead.
And that’s a good thing.
I hope he suffered.”
Mmboy, that’ll get the libs’ knickers in a twist. Bravo.
Of course. Because what our founders really meant–but neglected to write down in the constitution–was that criminal trials are disgusting spectacles. They obviously foresaw a future of well-armed gendarme shooting people suspected of particularly grisly crimes and saving the populace the spectacle of the exercise of our constitutional freedoms. That’s what they wanted–vigilante justice brought upon by people with the equivalent of three years education in jurisprudence and law enforcement. Bravo, you brave, brave soul.
wasn’t he walking around this whole time with a hollow-point mushroomed somewhere in his stomach?
i’m not the vengeful type but it seems fitting.
He tried and convicted himself when he pulled the gun on this cop. He declined a trial and yes, that is a great thing. A just outcome is the objective not some process. He got justice.
anon: Do you know of a better way to protect the populace? It is not the fault of the “well- armed gendarme” that criminals like this animal roamed the streets. It is the fault of judges, appelate courts, trial lawyers, SCOTUS and their progressive supports who started this mess about redemptive justice. Why do you think they chose to call criminal justice, criminal justice? Why do you think they didn’t call it victim justice?
Bagoh
He tried and convicted himself when he pulled the gun on this cop.
LOL. Why have a trial for anyone. If we think we can know who did what and when and how, then there is little left to determine in a trial. Since you, a toothless hillbilly from podunk, arkansas can know all, then we’ll just ask you about every case. Upon your pronouncement of who the “he” is in any situation, then we’ll send someone over to shoot them.
Why do you think they didn’t call it victim justice?
Of all the many obvious reasons its not called victim justice, the most salient is that they are not complete buffoons. The most basic foundation of the justice system is that all people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, and that all people have the right to face their accusers in a court of law. It may seem quaint to you after watching three episodes a day of T.J. Hooker, but it people who actually know what they’re talking about realize that what the constitution meant to establish were protections for the accused, not justice for the victims. Its a sacrifice that the framers were willing to make because of their overriding concern for personal liberty.
bravo for Benjamin Kelly, by whose efforts the world will be spared the spectacle of a trial for Maurice Clemmons.
What away to unclog the legal system. Now that’s justice! All for only the cost of one or two 40 cal rounds at about $1.25 each, Give officer Kelly a raise and hire more like him. Bravo!
Clemons original shooing spree was an open invitation for any officer to take him out without warning. Since that event and the fact that he drew or attempted to on the officer, he opened a karmic door that he couldn’t close. Glad he met one who could and did.
Anon, you’ve convicted yourself of bigotry and complete ***holery. Now begone.
You people stand for nothing. You hide behind the constitution when it serves your purpose, and then advocate an anything goes attitude when it doesn’t. THis is a mob mentality. Exactly what the founders were trying to prevent.
Officer Kelly probably saved the taxpayer thirty or forty million dollars.
That, and the unimaginable pain and anguish the families of those four officers who were gunned down in cold blood by a rabid Mohammedan dog would have suffered during a trail.
I nominate Officer Benjamin Kelly as the Police Officer of the Decade!
Grow up Anon. There was no mob vigilante justice. Had this murderer surrendered to the authorities, he would be alive and would have gotten a trial.
But since we don’t live in the world of make believe where abstract principles play out like a movie script, we should be thankful that the outcome of this is that the guy will never hurt anyone else and no more innocent people died. The families do not have to endure a trial or live with the worry that the system will let this nut out again. I would have preferred that this loon stayed in prison and that those 4 officers were still alive, but since that did not happen the demise of this guy now is not some great systemic breakdown.
Anon –
Clemmons could have received a trial if he had wanted one. He was certainly entitled to one. However, he chose to die on the sidewalk.
I fail to see what Constitutional rights were violated in the process. If he had turned himself in to the authorities to stand trial and they had simply shot him instead, THAT would have been an injustice.
Clemmons’chosen resolution to this case (a) saved us money (b) saved us time and (c) prevented any possible future murders by Clemmons himself. I don’t know what’s wrong with pointing that out.
anon: Amendments 5,6 and 8 originally focused on the rights of the accused. It was not until Marbury v. Madison, that there was this explosion of rights favoring the accused and those since then that the Warren and Burger courts established more legal rights favoring the accused.
Since then we’ve had progressives pretty much rule the courts and have allowed criminals get off with meaningless jail times, parole all because they thought redemptive justice should prevail and not punititve justice.
“Its a sacrifice that the framers were willing to make because of their overriding concern for personal liberty.”
The framers could not have possibly expected that the justice system would have been turned upside down the way it it today. Personal liberty and accused rights have nothing in common.
Since then we’ve had progressives pretty much rule the courts and have allowed criminals get off with meaningless jail times, parole all because they thought redemptive justice should prevail and not punititve justice.
LOL, there are more people in prison, and a greater proportion of people in prison than any other time in history. In California the legislature is in crisis looking for ways to continue to finance their prison production and maintenance. You live in a world of television mythology.
Anon: What is your beef exactly?
Not that the felon is dead: Had he surrendered, he’d have had a trial. He didn’t. He pulled a gun instead. No cop is required to risk death to try to “reason with” an armed man trying to execute him. No con law rights are lost when an officer elevates hs own life over the man trying to kill him.
Not the evident glee that he got what was coming to him: people aren’t morally neutral as between cops and people who try to kill them. Even if many cops are ego-driven blowhards better at giving tickets than doing real police work, its a disintegrating society that prefers a thug over a cop.
So assuming you have all YOUR teeth, what is your beef exactly?
I prefer neither. I find that most cops I’ve had to deal with (and I have never committed a crime that is not victimless, and I have never been arrested or charged with any crime) are thugs just like the baggy pants goofs who hang out on the corner. Of course that’s an anecdote, and there are nice cops, but I went to high school with the nicest crip you’ll ever meet.
I’ll take care of myself, and I don’t want anyone interfering with me, whether their uniform is a blue jacket or a blue bandana
What country do I live in? I flipped over to PJM because I thought I would be able to see rational conservative thought. Instead all I see is the same buffoonery that goes on on Fox’s forums. Are you people seriously saying that someone didn’t deserve a trial. Do we need to go back and rehash something I hope all of you have heard… John Adams defended the British. He said “The part I took in defense of captain Preston and the soldiers, procured me anxiety, and obloquy enough. It was, however, one of the most gallant, generous, manly and disinterested actions of my whole life, and one of the best pieces of service I ever rendered my country”. I find it funny that if Pres. Adams lived today he be called a libtard. But hey a bunch of people that post on PJM obviously have a better idea of what America should be than one of the most important founding fathers.
Headline: The lone officer is under investigation and possible prosecution for using excessive force on the cop killer.
Opinions expressed here do not have to be politically correct or watered down with sensitive text. I would argue there is no place for that here when discussing Clemmons and his deeds.
America is founded on freedom from oppression and when a man like Clemmons takes the lives of our peacekeepers, then there must be accountability for those acts. The accountability here, from all reports, was delivered in the form of a lone police officer doing his duty and likely trying to save his own life before this animal tried to kill again.
The amount of carnage, indecency, and savagery Clemmons forced onto others (to included children) in his short life is still untold. Thankfully, due to the heroic actions of Officer Kelly there will be no press conference on the courthouse stairs with a savvy lawyer wearing an expensive suit attempting to spin the reprehensible and unforgivable actions of a man that did not belong in lawful society. Don’t forget if the system Anon argues for was effective or even competent Clemmons would not have been out to commit these crimes. That is why there are prisons and that is why they need to stay occupied at or near their capacities to protect society from those that will do us harm. Yes, even 17-year olds that commit heinous crimes. Obviously a concept that Governor Mike Huckabee ignored. Now it appears there will be no political future for Huckabee. His name will rightfully and irrevocably be tied to the ill-advised releasing of a cop killer and child rapist!
Life in a republic without accountability is less than effective or desirable. So therefore, I wave goodbye to Clemmons and really big goodbye to Huckabee’s political future, as well. Neither will be missed!
“You people stand for nothing.”
Any time someone tries to pull a gun on me, I stand for shooting them before they can shoot me.
jash aka anon: Nice try. Nobody said any of the sort. Go back to your bong.
For you alter-ego, anon you made my point. What is happening is precisely because of the progressives having set the rules for crime and criminals. There has been an explosion of crime since the 1940s because criminals now knew they could just about get away with it.
CA is a perfect example of being soft on crime. Abolishing capital punishment and leniency gave the green light to criminals. Why mot commit a crime when a “technicality” could get you acquitted.
Also the opening of mental wards due ot their “rights” increased crime.
I agree with Greenbury, what IS your beef?
You think a trial is just a spectacle?
Dear me.
1. ugly kid joe:
there is some talk about the possiblility of clemmons being influenced by islamists while he spent time in prision…if so i’d bury him with a pound of bacon.
noooooooooooooooo …just some bacon drippings, I want the bacon.
but I had a similar thought given that the muslim brotherhood has a strong presents in jails.
23. Matthew:
You think a trial is just a spectacle?
Dear me.
In this case and in cases like the ft hood shooter, a trial would be nothing more then a spectacle.
maybe you should sign off as “poor me” instead of “dear me”
I hope they put a half way house next to yours.
Any time someone tries to pull a gun on me, I stand for shooting them before they can shoot me.
David Surls I find your anti-police comment offensive. The police have every right to pull a gun in the line of duty on a suspect; it doesn’t give the suspect the right to shoot back.
noooooooooooooooo …just some bacon drippings, I want the bacon.
I’ve noticed you in several forums with these disgusting double entendres. Leave your smarmy sex life out of these discussions.
Josh, the one in a hundred posts like yours give me hope that conservatives and libertarians still have a chance of regaining control of this party from these brainless authoritarian mob-rule enthusiasts.
For (#23) Matthew. Yes, trials are just spectacles. I’ve been around 72 years and never seen a just trial. Never seen an honest attorney, and never seen an honest judge. Trials are political spectacles, and that’s all. You better hope you never commit a politically incorrect crime.
First, proof that the death penalty works, the punk will never commit another crime. Second Huckabee is well Huckabee need I say more. The only sad thing I can say regarding the final outcome was that Hassan, the terrorist at Ft.Hood, was not able to join Shitbag Clemmons. I do hope though that the 5 terrorists coming to NY to stand trial for 9/11 join Shitbag Clemmons. God Bless the 4 officers families, it is a shame that Tiger Woods was more of a lead story in the news when all of this took place, well that is the media again need I say more.
In this case and in cases like the ft hood shooter, a trial would be nothing more then a spectacle.
In a democratic country a fair trial is never spectacle but an example for other countries to emulate.
Bringing up the Ft. Hood incident is just another sign of your ignorance by the way. The police officer who took down Hasan disarmed him non-violently after he put him down with the first shot and saw that he was still alive. He did so at considerable risk to his safety because he was trained to do so and because he believed in his training and the solemnity of his duty; this after Hasan had already shot his partner. His job is to bring suspects to justice, whether it be guilt or innocence, not to dispense justice based on his own feelings about any particular event; he understood that, and in fact, respected it to a degree you’ll never experience. I’m sure he’d be the first to b@@@@-slap a coward like you and tell you what’s what.
“The police officer who took down Hasan disarmed him non-violently after he put him down…”
LOL.
Same with Clemmons. He put up no resistance, and was taken non-violently…after the cops filled him full of lead.
Well, he might have been twitching a bit, but not enough to cause much of a ruckus.
What about the folks that supported Clemons? Helping him with his wounds, not reporting his threats to kill children? Disgusting.
Clemmons made his own choices.
He freely chose to walk into that coffee shop and kill four human beings in cold blood.
He freely chose to flee thereafter, rather than turn himself in.
When confronted by another officer of the law, he then freely chose not to surrender, but to pull a gun.
Therefore, he reaped the consequences of his freely chosen actions.
He gets no sympathy from this quarter.
4 Anon #30, let me paint you a little picture, people like you are the first to defend idiots like TERRORISTS and COP KILLERS just once think of one of your own family members being SHOT DOWN IN COLD BLOOD ( I truly hope that does not happen to you) then think about the justice you would want to take place or better yet you had the decision of letting the COLD BLOODED KILLER live or die. Well guess what those fellow members of our society HAD dads, moms, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters grandparents, grandchildren, friends, etc. and NONE of them had a choice to select the outcome. I would be willing to bet that you would hold court outside of the courthouse. Not that the officer was holding court the officer was doing the job he was taught to do and not becoming victim #5. Ignorance I think not, as far as your final statement Grow up.
27. Anonymous:
noooooooooooooooo …just some bacon drippings, I want the bacon.
I’ve noticed you in several forums with these disgusting double entendres. Leave your smarmy sex life out of these discussions.
sorry I don’t travel in the same circle as you …so I don’t get the sexual reference you are referring to. I was REALLY talking about the BACON …like for breakfast. ARE you some kind of deviant ??
“David Surls I find your anti-police comment offensive. The police have every right to pull a gun in the line of duty on a suspect; it doesn’t give the suspect the right to shoot back.”
That’s a good point. If a police officer pulls his gun on me, I’m going to make an exception to my rule…but, if it’s an insane, convict, child-raper, cop-killer…I’m gonna start blasting…and to heck with worrying about a trial.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Clemmons
Given what Clemmons was, and given the circumstances under which he was killed, I don’t think anyone can reasonably fault the police officer who killed him, nor fault people for being glad that Clemmons is dead, and that there is now no need for a trial.
“And now Maurice Clemmons is dead. Good.”
I agree 100%.
Anon: you’ve made eight post on the one article and not one word you’ve said makes any sense at all. Its time for you to go home now, no seriously man, the library is closing in just a few minutes.
Samson, an interesting coping mechanism. I would have been embarrassed enough at being caught in the act. But you apparently thought it would distract others by making yourself seem even more pitiful with that lame and weak “I know you are, but what am I” response. By the way, I don’t think you’re a deviant. I don’t judge. Just keep it to yourself.
Dave Surls. Pretty obvious that you have no integrity and are thus useless in a conversation about morality. Done.
Kooksia. I’ve noticed this tactic a lot from you people. Suffering from an immunity to logic and inability to reason, your first instinct is to defame without specifics. When forced to provide details you demure. Where is it that I didn’t make sense? Prove your point, or shut up; nothing is more annoying than a simpleton trilling his tongue so as not to hear the truth.
Gee, Anon, if you like criminals and ex-cons so much, why don’t you adopt one and take care of him in your house? No, of course you just prefer to inflict them on the population at large so that you feel good about yourself.
It’s a god thing that the perp is dead, I WOULD HAVE SHOT HIM MYSELF!
@#31 Anon, of course they are spectacles. Under those circumstances the party is known to be guilty, their swift death benefits society both monetarily and emotionally. It is little more than a show when they are put on trial. They are put on trial because that is the law and we are a nation of laws but that fact does not make it any less of a spectacle. I don’t see anyone here advocating for the suspension of habeus corpus, I see them celebrating the permanent removal of a dangerous criminal from society.
Coming in a little late here. Given I don’t know all the facts of the case, it does sound a little like Clemmons was preparing to ambush and kill himself another cop. Thank God, the lucky stars or whatever guardian angel you might believe in, Ofc. Kelly had the street sense and survival sense required to stop the threat, killing Clemmons in the process. Good for Ofc. Kelly, very good job. BTW, I base my opinion on a full law enforcement career with an honorable retirement, so I do have a clue about situations like the one in Washington. And I am damn happy Clemmons is dead, he won’t be creating any more victims.
Anon @ 40:
Anon @ 41:
What was that about not judging?
I don’t think I’ve seen a troll self-destruct so quickly before. Usually there’s several messages between a statement and an action contradicting said statement.
Congratulations, Anon, you’ve set a new record.
Samson you are of course right, i’ve spent enough time over at ace’s to know bacon (valueright and hobos) should never be wasted, so let me rephrase. “…if so i’d bury him with a pound of pig shxt.”
What was that about not judging?
It was sarcasm, sh&t for brains.
The statement that, “Loyal friends, family helped Clemmons flee police” should only be a suprise to polite society.
It’s actually pretty far from surprising to most folks; especially considering that many generations of a good sized slice of American citizens (White, Black, Latino, Indian, and so on) have distrusted law enforcement officials ever since the very day that this nation was founded.
Secondly, someone refusing to rat out their family members, no matter how heinous their crimes were, isn’t an unusual phenomenon anywhere in the world.
“Is there any crime so heinous that it might have cost Clemmons even a fraction of that loyalty?”
Sure, rolling over on one of his own family members.
“” A fitting end for a cop (murderer)? “”
Yes and no.
Better: A fitting end for a murderer.
Any murderer.
Every murderer.
And, please, Dear Lord, that Huckabee Finn) be forever known as the (Arkansas huckster who sprung the mass-murderer — and as the very epitome of the witless writer of the Law of unintended consequences.
For which small mercy I thank God — who, indeed, moves in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform!
And may He for ever look especially well after the families of Seattle’s Fallen, see to their eternal rest — and, for ever, to the very best interests of every one of America’s Front Line Warriors. God bless and protect them/you all!
How many??? How many??? How many people out there are victims of crimes that would have never happened if criminals served the jail time that they received during their sentencing? Where does anyone get off shortening a prison sentence? Once a criminal has received a sentence imposed on him by a jury of his peers, any attempt to alter that sentence should be considered a slander on our justice system. What is the point of sentencing someone to 50 years in prison if your going to let him out in 10? If there was just 1 thing we could do to reduce violent crime in this country it would be to force criminals to complete their entire prison sentence. I believe many of them would die in jail long before they ever got the chance to hurt anyone again.
It appears to me that the lefty trolls came here just to put up some inane hand wringing demonstration about absolutely nothing. John Adams? Are you kidding me? If you think John Adams would have given a tinkers damn about the death of a deranged loon who died trying to fight his way out of a legal beef, your nuts.
This guy did not surrender or even come close to submitting. Had he done so and got one in the head, you may have a point. That did not happen.
Again, grow up. This is not a movie or a video game. This was real life and death for these officers and the end result is legal and just.
Death, the final frontier…couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy then that there Clemmons fella…
The troll sounds like David S. Same worthless maunderings supporting the unsupportable. Meh.
RIP to the 4 murdered police officers
Ofc Kelly: well done
Clemmons: burn in hell
Huckabee: go away. just go away now- you’re done.
It cannot be called “victim justice”, because there can be no just restitution for victims on this side of life. Here we would call it poetic justice in that he got what was coming to him. And something is wrong with somebody who can’t understand that. Clemmons was killed for trying to kill Benjamin Kelly–not the other cops, for which he has not been proven guilty in a court of law. Kelly was just doing his job, protecting the law-abiding citizens, including himself.
i’m amazed, and disgusted with “anon” of the several posts. i’m not, and never have been a police officer, but i’ve carried a gun for a living, and still lawfully do so in my retirement. given the circumstances detailed in the story, that the deceased was actively trying to draw his gun on the police officer i would have shot clemmons too. a police officer’s gun is for his self defense against people like clemmons who are quite willing to murder anyone, for any reason. this was a righteous shoot, in line of duty, against an armed criminal who had committed four murders and was intent on committing yet another. the officer is to be commended, not condemmed by the ignorant, and most important of all, when it was over he got to go home to his family.
add: as for the aiders and abbetors who helped clemmons in his attempt to evade justice after commenting multiple murder, i certainly hope they each and all are given trails, convicted, and receive sentences that will pause to the next one who thinks of “being loyal” to a criminal on the run
ANON AKA MOHO has been humiliated many times on here as his Mohammedanism and his pathetic defense of it has exposed it for the evil Hate and Death CULT that it is. So he has decided to spam all the threads with TU QUOQUE nonsense which he then answers and supports HIMSELF as one of his ALTER EGOS. The man is sick and also being a good Mohammedan by trying to disrupt places which expose Islam for what it is.
Anon: all the sniveling in the world ain’t gonna bring your buddy back..he’s DEAD.
There’s an expression used here in the UK, perhaps you have it too -
“Good riddance”
28. moho:
Josh, the one in a hundred posts like yours give me hope that conservatives and libertarians still have a chance of regaining control of this party from these brainless authoritarian mob-rule enthusiasts.
Aaaand Moho tees up with the non sequitir.
As far as I’m concerned, it came down to this – he decided to pull a gun on a police officer with the intent to harm, and the police officer defended himself. That is right and just. That he died from his wounds was a possible outcome, the other was that he would have been injured, which would have been more than adequate. Clemmons ultimately removed himself from the arrest and trial process with this action.
Was justice served? I believe so, as he was prevented from killing at least one police officer, even if he can’t stand trial for killing four others.
“Never seen an honest attorney, and never seen an honest judge.”
Well, I was an honest attorney….but then again, I got out of the racket, largely because the system is a farce.
Officer Benjamin Kelly deserves a Presidential Medal of Honor, cash bonus, or something for putting the vermin down.
the officer is to be commended, not condemmed by the ignorant, and most important of all, when it was over he got to go home to his family.
It truly makes me sad that people with such obvious cognitive abilities are allowed to carry guns. I’ve not condemned the officer, I’ve condemned the idiots here claiming that this is true justice. Certainly, any officer is allowed to defend themselves, but when a mob of simpletons arises after every such shooting claiming it to be more efficient than the justice system our forefathers died and suffered to maintain, then they should be called out for what they are: unamerican idiots.
Where does anybody get off blaming Huckabee for this? What right did he have to reduce the sentence, you ask? No, what right did the court have to impose a life sentence for a non-violent crime? Huckabee rebuked the judicial system because it deserved to be rebuked. Huckabee didn’t pardon a child rapist or a cop killer; he commuted the sentence of a robber sentenced to life in prison to 47 years in prison, still a very harsh sentence for his crimes- if it were my call, I’d have knocked it down to 20. The fact that Clemmons sinned away his day of grace in no way invalidates the fact that Huckabee did him justice, whereas the courts failed to, first by imposing an excessive sentence for a non-violent crime, and later by not locking him up when he violated the terms of his parole. The power to grant clemency is just as fundamental to separation of powers as the power of impeachment and the power to veto legislation, and I don’t see anyone complaining that those powers exist; rather, I see people complaining that those powers aren’t used enough.
Tough on crime doesn’t mean lacking in common sense, and locking up a teenager for life for a property crime is the same sort of insanity as expelling a child from school for drawing a picture of a gun.
Anon – You don’t have the testicles to use your own name, but you have the nerve to stand up for the biggest anal orifice society has produced. If you were given the choice of Officer Benjamin Kelly or scum Clemmons, for neighbors, I would bet you would choose Clemmons. He would then kill YOU, you gutless wonder.
P.S. Don’t classify me as a low life southerner with no education, whom I happen to think are some very down to with people, because I have been a police administrator and do have a master’s degree.
You are nothing but a well educated (at taxpayers expense) punk, with balls the size of a molecule. Go back to your ACLU office and close the door permanently!
Some times name calling feels good, especially when someone is hiding their identity.
Robert Fray. Just curious, were your parents illiterate too? Its time to break the cycle with your own children. By the way, my name is Shawn Ondeen. As if it matters; any db can simply make up a name here and claim that they have the courage to use their real name. Given your cognitive difficulties and your utter lack of courage, its not surprising you would use the same tactic. Claiming to use your real name in a forum where it can’t be verified; wow.
This end is especially fitting with regard to the Detroit Imam who went down in a hail of police bullets. Two less POS in the world.
Anon, You better stick with the name Anon – at least you are not LYING to fellow bloggers. Your “name” Shawn Ondeen is nowhere to be found on google, yahoo or zabatools, I find that strange for an author like you that worships the sick and deranged people of the world.
My name and info can be easily verified by the author of this article, Jack Dunphy, since he in an officer with LAPD.
I would be willing to donate $10,000 to my charity if I were proven wrong! Would a liar like you do the same? No way!
Please just show some remorse for the slain officers, not the idoit that killed them.
our “name” Shawn Ondeen is nowhere to be found on google, yahoo or zabatools, I find that strange for an author like you that worships the sick and deranged people of the world.
How hilariously infantile. Are you Robert Fay, MD? Or perhaps you’re Robert Fay, manager at Northpoint. Or are you this Robert Fay http://www.robfay.com/
Yeah, being able to google someone’s name is certainly proof they are who they say they are.
In any case, you brought up this issue, and you did it to distract from what was my obvious point which had nothing to do with the police, but everything to do with idiots like you who cheer everytime a police officer has to kill someone in the line of duty. Of course it has to happen at times, but it is never a preferable form of justice in our country. Never. To say such a thing is to literally wipe your @## with the constitution. My grandfather died to defend the rights of the accused in Korea, so please keep such offensive opinions to yourself.
71. Shawn Ondeen:
“How hilariously infantile.”
“How hilariously infantile.”
One for the Twilight Zone Dummy and one for the mirror.
“…so please keep such offensive opinions to yourself.”
So will Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen whatever, practice what it preaches?
Hey Pee Wee, does Shawn know Van Jones too? What about your brothers in the military? And those muggers?
Sorry about that Shawn…it seems as if the id stealing bandit has struck again. I don’t think I could bring myself to sound so pre-literate.
I believe there is a racial component to this story, considering Maurice Clemmons was Black & all the officers he shot were White. Case in point: What if a white man shot and killed four Black police officers, and then recieved a lot of support from his White family members and friends to help him escape. It would take two shakes from a lambs tail….before good old Jessie & Ref. Al would be on the scene. Some of us in America are getting very tired of this double standard !
What if a white man shot and killed four Black police officers,
When was the last time you saw four black police officers together. It should make you think; I doubt it will.
#74 Nedarc: I hope we all live long enough to see either Rev. Jessie or Al even comment on this terrible crime…I suspect we will not live that long. They never will when it’s black on white crime. That would appear to his followers he was supporting the establisment and even when it’s right…it’s wrong.
Shawn or Anon or whatever name you go by this hour – I put my money where my mouth is, put up or shut up in your ACLU office. Actually, you are to wacked out to be a member of the ACLU!. Are you really a Bin Laden or just another total nut case. I think the latter.
My position isn’t even close to the ACLU, but more along the lines of the founders. Go piss on them if you like, you know you want to; its quite clear that you have no faith in the constitution if it doesn’t let you do what you want to do.
I wonder… Anon seems far more upset about one cop-killer dying than four officers who were trained and sworn to uphold the law.
Perhaps he really wants to see more cop-killers on the street and fewer cops?
First, proof that the death penalty works, the punk will never commit another crime.
Loved this comment!
Great job, Officer Kelly!
“73. Mr. Lucky:
Sorry about that Shawn…it seems as if the id stealing bandit has struck again. I don’t think I could bring myself to sound so pre-literate.”
“75. Mr. Lucky:
“What if a white man shot and killed four Black police officers,
When was the last time you saw four black police officers together. It should make you think; I doubt it will.”
Well I be darned, that Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen Whatever, is in the rip-off business as well. That’s three and with your mirror that makes four. When’s the last time you saw four Wannabe Jihadist together on PJM? In Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen Whatever’s World of Joy?
The Twilight Zone Dummy has taken over. Indeed.
Oh well, next Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen Whatever will be pretending to be Mr.President.
“Dave Surls. Pretty obvious that you have no integrity…”
Nah, we just have different values that’s all. People like you don’t get all worked up when a scumbag whacks out four cops, but you do get worked up if a cop whacks out a scumbag.
I’m just the opposite.
Anon has neevr identified even generally what he believes was wrong. Not the shooting of the thug which was prudent by anyone facing an armed man who decides to shoot a cop. Not the glee of those glad to see one less Robert Alton Harris circus. Books are closed.
“Tough on crime doesn’t mean lacking in common sense, and locking up a teenager for life for a property crime…”
That’s not correct. He was originally convicted of numerous felonies including thefts, an assault during the commission of a robbery, and weapons violations.
Clemmons convictions were as follows:
“Sentenced to 5 years for robbery in Pulaski County, Aug. 3, 1989.”
“Sentenced to 8 years for burglary, theft and probation revocation in Pulaski County, Sept. 9, 1989″
“Sentenced to an indeterminate amount for aggravated robbery and theft in Pulaski County, Nov. 15, 1989″
“Sentenced to 20 years each for burglary and theft of property in Pulaski County, Feb. 23, 1990.”
“Sentenced to 6 years for firearm possession in Pulaski County, Nov. 19, 1990.”
http://www.arktimes.com/blogs/arkansasblog/2009/11/maurice_clemmons_record.aspx
In addition…
“Clemmons was accused multiple times of displaying violent behavior during court appearances. In one incident, Clemmons dismantled a metal door stop and hid it in his sock to use as a weapon. It was discovered and confiscated by a court bailiff. In another incident, Clemmons took a lock from his holding cell and threw it at a bailiff, but missed and accidentally hit his mother instead.[3][4] Clemmons was once accused of reaching for a guard’s pistol while being transported to court. During one trial, he was shackled in leg irons and seated next to a uniformed officer because the presiding judge ordered extra security, claiming Clemmons had threatened him…”–wiki
That’s why they threw the book at the guy, and the court that sentenced him (obviously) got it right.
Dave Surls @ 84:
Nail. Head.
Greenberry. Given that you failed to understand these words the first time, I hold very little hope that you’ve suddenly become literate in the meantime, however:
I’ve not condemned the officer, I’ve condemned the idiots here claiming that this is true justice. Certainly, any officer is allowed to defend themselves, but when a mob of simpletons arises after every such shooting claiming it to be more efficient than the justice system our forefathers died and suffered to maintain, then they should be called out for what they are: unamerican idiots.
“I’ve condemned the idiots here claiming that this is true justice.”
The only injustice in this case is is that the government released a violent criminal over and over again…until he finally killed four people.
The termination of Clemmons’ life, OTOH, is true justice.
Needless to say, what lefty halfwits condemn is of no consequence. But, I’ll say it anyway, just for the fun of it.
84. Did any of those crimes cause irreversible harm to another human being? No, and that should be the standard for a life sentence- no one should be given a life sentence except after inflicting irreversible harm to another person or upon violation of the three strikes law, which in turn should require that all three felonies be major felonies.
# 81 Mr Lucky it all falls in to place once you understand that MOHO is a self confessed, on PJM, Jew hating Mohammedan Arab. So his MULTI nicking and ID STEALING is all part of his own personal Jihad against both PJM and those posters he considers his and Islams enemies. Or rather those of us who know TOO MUCH about what Islam really is. Hence his constant abusive posts Tu Quoque, ad hominem attacks and opposition to anything remotely sensible.
The thing that bothers me more is that PJ’s moderators allow this guy to continue unchecked and in the process make PJM a laughing stock when he has posted enough anti American Terrorist supporting BS on here to have the FBI knocking on his door.
@86. Anon:
Where did you get the idea that justice can only be dispensed in a court of law ? Laws can be unjust – hence the War of Independence. There is a difference between justice and legal process.
What happened to Clemmons was just. He chose not to submit to the due process of law. Prison acquired Islam didn’t help his mental reasoning.
Jack Dunphy, thanks. Great point about the beat cop, Kelly, just doing his job properly and completely while all around special squads and task forces scurried about on their manhunt. Woulda made Bumper Morgan proud.
Only thing that disturbed me a little was the early media report of responding officers at Kelly’s location “high-fiving” each other afterward. Understand their relief from all that tension but sort of wished they had waited until returning to the station. Always liked John Madden’s take on end-zone celebrations by pro football players, “Act like you’ve done it before.”
Hey, MB @ 88, your criteria is much wider than you know.
You see, even theft imposes an “irreparable harm” on other people. You would probably say, “well, they can just buy stuff to replace the stolen stuff.” Yes, but that takes money away from other uses, including repairs to homes, vehicles, medical care, etc, and that money can never be recovered. “But they have insurance to cover that stuff,” you might say. However, payouts like that increase the costs to the insurance company, which thereby reduces the value of their stock and possibly their dividends, once again causing financial harm to human beings that can never be repaired.
Then there’s the psychological harm that one undergoes when one discovers the theft… tell me, is there a way to make someone un-forget that sort of thing? It seems you’ve never experienced that, or you wouldn’t be so flippant about it.
If I were you, I’d pick a different moniker… you’re not honoring Adam and Jamie at all, nor Grant, Kari, and Tory. Any one of them could have thought through the “irreparable harm” criteria as I have, but apparently you couldn’t.
Oops, correction to my post above… un-forget should have been forget. I started with un-remember and decided to change it, and just didn’t backspace enough.
That’s what I get for trying to post before I’ve had my morning caffeine.
Where did you get the idea that justice can only be dispensed in a court of law ? Laws can be unjust – hence the War of Independence. There is a difference between justice and legal process.
Spoken like a true jihadist. Or is it only the laws that YOU think are unjust are unjust? Perhaps its you who should rule the world, Undhimmified. Or is that your a$$ is functioning as a third hemisphere for your brain?
Hey, Anon… I note that way back in comment 79 someone made a suggestion about your motivations, and you’ve not denied it… does that mean that suggestion was correct?
This whole thing was a tragedy. Do you realize if that had been 4 black officers shot by a white man, Tacoma would be in ruins right now! God bless our police officers
THIS WAS A GUY WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN KILLED A LONG TIME AGO. AT LEAST THE 12 YEAR OLD HE RAPED WON’T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT GOING TO COURT TO TESTIFY ABOUT WHAT WAS DONE TO HER.
#95 ConservativeWanderer: I think you will find that my summation of the ID STEALING , MULTI NICKING MOHO/anon/ etc etc etc is the real one he is not merely anti Cop he is anti American, anti Jewish, anti Western, anti Christian. he will of course PRETEND at any time to support any of those things but just to sow further DIVERSIONS from his ISLAMIC CULT.
In fact his philosophy is “apart from Islam what you got cos I’m AGIN it.”
ConservativeWanderer. Motivations are beside the point. Someone may support something for any number of reasons; you can guess and accuse but you’ll not prove. Better to argue the merits of a point, rather than enter a fantasy and delusion about what your opponent wants. Less likely to look stupid that way, you are.
Minor injuries heal, and people who receive emotional trauma from being mugged eventually get over it- some faster than others, but they get over it. The property can be replaced, and restitution extracted from the thief. How conveniently we all forget that there is no constitutional prohibition against slavery as punishment for a crime- the 13th Amendment specifically excludes punishment of a crime for which a person has been duly convicted in the prohibition of slavery. A just punishment for theft would be to require all thieves to pay double restitution to their victims, under pain of being sold into slavery if they are unable to pay.
How this “National” story relates to the “National” Kennedy Awards:
Back in the late 90’s the Clinton’s came to New York looking for the “New Springsteen”…That strain, or contrivance, of popular culture has become the root ideology of the Democrats agenda….So in the bigger frame of mass media and the greater narrative of PR and power-brokering, pathetically, some will be led to ask of these most serious and grievous issues, “How does this tie into the “Bruce Springsteen archetype” that the Clinton Administration and their associates have heavily invested in and Springsteen’s Management is relying on for protection from?” These are the connections I’m making…Someone could just follow the money I suppose…Maybe some lucky FBI newbie might get a promotion out of it, if they didn’t get too scared about toppling false idols…and taking down former Presidents…But these kinds are pretty slippery and like to scapegoat…(Last time I was in the FBI’s office they asked why I was “resisting”?..And I was like, “because they are crooks…ARE YOU?”)
Here’s some of my dissertation in terms of the sociology of it: Let’s see…The name “Clemmons” rings a bell…Springsteen’s Clemmons was a “deadbeat” dad whose Springsteen’s management sprang from court orders back in the 70’s…Springsteen’s career is full of “favors” from the courts…
“Huckabee” sorta sounds like “Huckleberry” as in “Finn”…And just look at the “Born to Run” cover to see how that dynamic is exploited. What message is conveyed there?
Notice how the E-street Band, Clarence Clemons) is not included in his honor at the Kennedy Awards.
Springsteen’s got a song, “Straight Time” that is empathetic to released convicts everywhere… (I’m surprised he’s not doing a benefit concert for this cop-killing Clemmons)…Amazing how he can sing a song like “Straight Time” and then in the same turn of the screw perform at Veteran’s benefits for America’s Corporate elite. It’s the kind of wealth and seduction that can sing all they want about empathy for criminals, but when it comes time to proving it: Well, like I said, “Come on Boss, do a tribute for the poor misunderstood crooks everywhere!…Go play a show on Death Row…Invite them into your house…Or better yet drive the getaway car…They are the material you prosper by…We know “you” don’t do drugs..But everybody who “works” for you does, and same with your audience…Let’s see how much power you have? Who is using who? Aren’t those police officers the ones who protect you from all the ”crazies” out there?..Who are just “jealous”?..Right? Forget the ones who have lost portions of their lives and loves to these criminals?”
Springsteen was a prominent advocate for the “freedom of speech” argument that was used by the African-American community in cahoots with the recording industry (mass media) to justify such hate speech music as Ice T’s “Cop Killer” being allowed legitimate distribution in the US in the 1990’s. Anyone familiar with the recording industry should make that connection…And to tell you the truth I’m sure the PR agents of Springsteen and Ice T are probably right now hard at work thinking on how to spin it…That’s what they do for fun…How they justify the value in making the big bucks and “whore at your door” lifestyle…The morality of it is what they consider the “transcendent”. “Transcendent” meaning “them”…In essence,“Getting away with it”…Or at the very least being “right” in their “beliefs”…saving face.
There is an old saying: “Words are like pistols”..and Springsteen likes to come out blasting for these kinds of murderers…And his presented as the “Voice of the People” in the US…Under the pretenses of American traditional music…But because there is nothing authentic to his claims, he serves out of his own fear of such types, as a stool pigeon for the criminals who have such authenticity…There needs to be limits and regulations on such kinds of propaganda…It is nothing more then toadyism for murderers and thugs…
These are the stories that are playing to the eyes and ears of the nation and world…Sadly it is the stuff of propaganda…These will be the “memories” of your children…”The Voice of the “People””
Anon, quit borrowing other people’s usernames. The regulars (like myself) know enough about the views (not to mention the particular turns of phrase) of other regulars (like Pragmatist) to spot you a mile off.
And especially don’t borrow the username of the person who posted immediately before yours… makes a side-by-side comparison all too easy, and that makes you the one that looks stupid.
And, since I still see no post from Anon denying that he’d rather see more cop-killers than cops on the street, I think we can consider that point proven… see, posting under other names creates other issues. Best to just pick one and stick with it, unless you’re a troll whose only purpose here is to cause problems.
Oh, Myth Buster… perhaps the emotional wound does heal, but can a crook ever pay “restitution” for the time lost to those wounds? Have you found some way to package and exchange time?
As for your slavery idea, that idea pins you down quite well to any intelligent reader, so I will let them draw their own conclusions.
Lol. Yeah, its me that looks stupid, not the guy demanding something he has absolutely no power or right to expect.
# 102 ConservativeWanderer:n Yep MOHO is so stupid he thinks he is clever and that is REALLY stupid.
YOU GUYS ON THIS SITE NEED TO GET A LIFE.
There’s probably less than 6000 killers out there. I’d guess a few hundred of them are intelligent, pathological psychopaths. Genius serial killers, professional gang killers, that kind of thing. You know a few of those people have body counts going up into the dozens.
All the more reason for everyone to excercise their second amendment rights, and stay constantly vigilant. Vigilance is what matters. You can’t even let your guard down to have a coffee anymore. It ain’t 1950.
While I agree with anon IN PRINCIPLE, this is not one of those situations where the police officer who committed the shooting acted outside the constitution. Anon, did you not read the account of the shooting? Clemmons charged at the cop while pulling a gun.