“You have always yearned for this chance and now you have it. A wind is blowing from paradise sweet with the smell of martyrdom.” — Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood’s leader Hasan al-Banna, December 10, 1947
“The world will see it is impossible to beat Arabs by force.” — Arab Summit Declaration, December 24, 1947
“Before I built a wall I’d ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn’t love a wall,
That wants it down!” — Robert Frost, “Mending Wall”
How is Egypt’s revolution different from a real democratic revolution, as in Eastern Europe? Here’s a symbolic way to remember it.
The most famous line, at least from an American, on the road to Eastern Europe’s transformation cane from President Ronald Reagan: “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!” Eventually the East German people did the job. The tearing down of the wall was a symbol of opening the borders, letting in the light of the outer world, throwing out the old totalitarian ideas that had sat on the people’s heads and pecked at their brains for decades.
While the tearing down of a wall in Berlin signaled a democratic and liberating revolution in Eastern Europe, it symbolizes the decision to make the Egyptian revolution the basis for a new dictatorship of hatred, blindness, and destruction.
Consider Robert Frost’s 1914 poem about walls. Its often-misunderstood theme is that his stubborn neighbor insists on the fence being repaired, explaining, “Good fences make good neighbors.” Frost wants a peace process up in New Hampshire. It’s a lot of work for him to maintain the wall, natural forces keep subverting it, and there’s really no threat that requires it. Of the two properties the fence divides, Frost complains:
“He is all pine and I am apple orchard.
My apple trees will never get across
And eat the cones under his pines….”
Frost’s poem is so popular because it expresses a very common Western idea so often deployed in discussions in the Middle East: There’s no real problem! Can’t we all be friends? Who needs walls that divide people? Conflicts that are irrational, that give no material benefit to either side, can and must be quickly terminated.
Frost describes his stubborn wall-repairing neighbor in the way that many Western politicians, “experts,” and media describe Israel, “like an old-stone [age] savage armed,” so backward and paranoid as to still want to keep up fences in our enlightened age. Enemies are illusions, or at the least of our own making. Defending yourself is an act of aggression, of primitivism. The September 11 attacks were thus caused by America’s sins.
Thus, they say, Israel doesn’t need defensible borders when it can have a perfectly good piece of paper ensuring that all problems go away.
But Frost, being a good poet and a farmer who didn’t learn everything he knows about reality in a classroom, also explains one reason his own wall kept crumbling — a never-quoted section of the poem corresponding to the kinds of things the mass media usually leaves out:
“The work of hunters is another thing:
I have come after them and made repair
Where they have left not one stone on a stone,
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,
To please the yelping dogs.”
Gorbachev’s fences were to keep in oppressed people; our fences are to keep out those inciting “the yelping dogs” in their murderous rage. Sometimes you need a fence when your neighbor really is trying to kill you. And he doesn’t want that fence there because it’s in the way of his homicidal goal.
Let me insert here a metaphor for understanding contemporary Arab politics. Arab nationalists have been hitting their heads against a stone wall for 60 years, trying to destroy Israel, defeat the West, and reestablish a great empire. The few moderate pragmatists propose to stop this madness. Instead, the Islamists explain that the way to piety, glory, and total victory is to spend 60 years more battering their heads against that stone wall much harder. Guess who is winning the debate?
One such wall, a flimsy fence actually, marks the Egypt-Israel border. A group of terrorists recently cut through it so they could attack and kill Israeli civilians on a nearby road inside Israel.
Since the terrorists sought to exterminate Israel and stage a revolution in Egypt, this was the kind of event that should bring neighboring countries to work together against a common threat. That would have happened during the Mubarak regime. Now, however, with that government gone, a junta fearful of the mob, partly sharing its views, and denied the tools of repression stands aside.
How can anyone still seriously claim that there will be a two-state solution, all strife will end . . . etc.?
Because the two-state solution is a good way to destroy Israel, that’s how.
So very well said, Mr. Rubin
“How can anyone still seriously claim that there will be a two-state solution, all strife will end, and everyone will live happily ever after?”
They will claim the Egyptian Arabs are pi$$ed because there’s no two-state-solution and that it is all the fault of Israel. And if only Israel will unilaterally withdraw from Judea and Samaria (as an agreement is really impossible since the Arabs demand Israel to become a de facto Arab-Muslim state in return for “peace”) all problems would be solved.
“What you in the West think matters nothing–look with your eyes, listen with your ears and see what the reality is.”
Heh, always the optimist. They will never see it until reality becomes undeniable even for them. What will it take for them to not be able to deny it any longer? I truly don’t know. I really can’t think of anything big enough to make them even doubt their beliefs. A nuke in a major Western city? They will explain it away as being the inevitable result of Western imperialism, capitalism and racism, of American foreign policy, and above all of the existence and actions of Israel.
They, of course, will blame Israel for the deterioration with Egypt and Turkey. That is the “reality” they see and will always continue to see. And they will label you racist for saying how commonplace are “the demand for revenge, raw hatred, denial of any rights to the “other” ” in Egypt, or in other Arab or Muslim majority conutries. Such qualities are only allowed to be attributed to Israel.
The more Israel is attacked and the more the West is attacked – the more “proof” it will be for them of the evil and criminality of Israel and the necessity to rid the world of this “plague”, the more it’ll intensify their desire to see Israel exterminated.
I have no faith left in the West, except a minority of dissidents who are too weak to influence.
Israel must do whatever it takes to get stronger. We have to be very strong to survive what’s coming. It’s no longer the Arab-Israeli conflict. It’s now an international axis of Arabs, Mulsims and Western lefties against Israel. A mighty consortium indeed, very powerful on so many levels, on so many fronts, very manipulative, and fueled by fanatic religious and ideological zeal.
I don’t comment as much as before on such blogs and websites because I got tired of banging my head against the brick wall of Western idiotism. There are those who see things for what they are and they really don’t need me to tell them. And the rest – I lost hope of reasoning with them. Only a large enough dose of reality will settle the debate. Not even your words, let alone mine. I used to think every voice counts. Now I think your voice counts, but I’d better prepare myself and others around me for what’s coming. It won’t be easy. We need to taughen up, be prepared, and be able to help each other. Things are building up all around us and they’re going nowhere good. I don’t know how long it’ll take, but a great struggle for our survival will come about. People need to be prepared for rockets hitting everywhere, for various boycotts and sanctions, for a possible full-scale war with several of our enemies, for the Iranian nuclear weapons, and for an international media that is able and willing to fabricate any lie to justify the jihad, if not encourage their own countries to join in.
Pnina all muslims should be aniahlated. start with all mullahs round them up and execute them,when that is done then we will have peace. not befor,
Begone troll!
You not recognizing the world war we are already in doesn’t make it go away.
Just listened to a homily in church yesterday about the Israelis fleeing the Egyptians and the Red Sea parted and the Israelis exited on the other side and then turned to watch as the sea covered the entire Egyptian army. Did it truly happen? If you believe it did, then you know that there’s a higher power in charge. There will be suffering to come but in the end, the Israelis will prevail.
I pray for Israel. I think things are going to be tough in the near future but it will ultimately prevail ( by whatever means necessary).
Pnina,
No need to worry too much though. Israel is far stronger than it was in 1967 or 1973, while the Arabs have stayed in place. While Israel faces international pressure, the enemy has no superpower patron. What we should worry about is our own resolve, As long as Israel stands firm (no lurching leftward, for example), it would be fine.
Remember your covenant with God. He hasn’t forgotten you and it will be by His hand that you are saved.
Absolutely!
Dear Pnina,
I thoroughly enjoy reading your comments (as much as I enjoy reading Barry’s articles!). Although I completely understand your point of being tired “banging [your] head against the brick wall of Western idiotism”, still I humbly appeal to you to not get discouraged and continue to share your valuable insight with the rest of us.
Many thanks!
“The underlying basis of these attacks is Sharia, Islamic law, that mandates no synagogue or church can be built anew or repaired in lands (or, as we are starting to see in Europe, even urban neighborhoods) ruled by Islam. Why? Because the Sharia’s “tolerance” is merely a form of patience: let the non-Muslim places of worship crumble; those people will lose their religion, and eventually become Muslims.”
And this is the next major fight, perhaps the final fight, that will face us in the next few years. I’m sick and tired about hearing of all those “moderate” Muslims out there who just want to be left alone and live their lives. Well, sorry folks, but sharia and your pals in the Muslim Brotherhood are not about to let that happen. The Muslim people will soon have to take sides. They will have to decide whether or not they actually want to come into the 21st century, or go back to living in the 13th century. That is the choice that is facing them in Egypt and soon we’ll have our answer.
And keeping quiet and not taking sides will no longer be an option. There is an old saying in latin that goes, “Silence implies consent.” So unless these “moderate” Muslims actually WANT to join the sharia crowd, then they will actually have to stand up to the thugs in the Muslim Brotherhood and denounce their persecution of just about anybody who isn’t a Muslim. A good first step would also be to stop calling non-Muslims “infidels.” Words mean a lot to the “outside” world when it comes to Islam and unless Muslims throughout the world put an end to this, all Muslims will be swept away by this madness. And it will be up to the rest of the world to stop it, if possible.
Ls46 the only answer to the problem is simple. killem all let God sort them out, then we will have peace again,
That’s what some mullahs say. That’s not what we say. Go troll someplace else.
Putting your head in the sand will not save you or your family.
It appears that when you disagree with a comment, Moira, you call the poster a “troll”. I am a frequent contributor to these columns, Moira, while you are not; would the identification of the word “troll” (as used in forums of this sort) not more probably belong to you? Why not add something to the debate? If you disagree, please explain, in detail, why. Try to educate us instead of pursuing your rather vapid one-liners. If you think the Arab Muslim population can be reasoned with, tell us why. For my part, I know that only Jewish blood and sacrifice will appease them. It’s simple: It’s either them or us. Deep in our (Jewish) subconscious rings the phrase: Never again!
13th Century? Are you kidding? Mohammedanism and sharia law incorporate desert-Arab society of the 6th Century — and it was backward even then. With modern travel and weaponry, we can no longer consign the Mohammedans to 3rd world sh*t-holes. It’s them or us now. If we don’t take Mohammedanism out now, we’ll be defending ourselves from their hordes later, when they’re stronger and we’re weaker. Denial is now a ‘spring’ in Egypt.
There are no moderate muslims. Muslims are only moderate if they are apostate (non-practicing) or in small numbers in a host country. Once they bulk their number up they suddenly have a huge list of grievances. Look how many grievnaces they have in the US today. 10 years ago I’d never have known they were here.
Excellent Post LibertyShip! Well done.
– FF
“Iraqi democracy will succeed, and that success will send forth the news from Damascus to Tehran that freedom can be the future of every nation,” he said. “The establishment of a free Iraq at the heart of the Middle East will be a watershed event in the global democratic revolution.”
President George Bush, 2003
Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. The problem is most people do not understand the difference between Democracy and a Republic including presidents of the USA.
The USA is a Republic, A democracy is little more than Mob Rule. The USA triggered these revolutions ; we broke it, we bought it.
The secondary problem is Syria and Egypt were heavily involved in US rendition programs, we got into Bed with the worst aspects of Syrian and Egyptian Governments….it is a little late to question motives when we were explicitly asking governments to turn a blind eye…what exactly did we think the end game would look like ??
Cause and effect seem to be completely lost on people in the pentagon, state department, and other government agencies.
How many months was it from the Iranian Revolution, much celebrated by liberals who willfully ignored what Khomeini was really all about, to the occupation of the US Embassy in Tehran?
History rhymes.
“I’m sick and tired about hearing of all those “moderate” Muslims out there who just want to be left alone and live their lives. Well, sorry folks, but sharia and your pals in the Muslim Brotherhood are not about to let that happen.”
Never mind that; where are all the “moderate Muslims” to protest the horrific evils done in their name on a regular basis? I bet dollars-to-donuts you don’t hear from them because they don’t exist! Or, if they do, they are in such tiny numbers that they are cowed into silence by their true-believer cohorts. The vast majority of Dar al-Islam agrees with the Jihadis even if their own hands are “clean”. And the moderates are considered the “kufr”.
Rightly so, where were they after 911???
I’m this close to buying the T shirt that say’s “Everything I need to Know about Islam I learned on 911.
Indeed, where are all the “moderate” muslims? My next question is, so, you stinky middle-easterner, you moved to the US to “live a better life” and you do, because the government of the nation you left is largely out of your hair. Yet you pine for all those things that muslims want, sharia law, a mosque on every corner, etc., etc. But, did you not ponder what that would cost you? You have freedom here, yet you insist on bringing the ways of the nation (again, which you left) here. Is it nostalgia? Or are you just stupid? Or is it a little of both. Because you can’t have it both ways. You can’t live in the United States, partake of all its freedoms and rights and then condemn it for the same reasons.
So, either assimilate or go back to your sand-bound hellhole where you could be killed by anyone who has a tribal grievance against you, or where you could be withheld food because the mullahs are trying to get your mind right, etc.
How can you come to America, live among Americans; Deal and converse and engage with Americans and NOT KNOW WHAT IT IS TO BE AN AMERICAN?
Well believing all conflicts are false consciousness, a la Dr. Seuss is common in the the West and Israel, being based on a sort of vulgar Marxism which calms the rabble.
Many in Israel believe that a piece of paper offers real security, citing the Egypt as an example. When the government falls the words go with them, and the Egyptians will not respect the agreements if they ever really did.
My middle east policy statement:
a) make sure Israel has plenty of artillery shells.
That about covers it.
Ruebacca plenty of artillery shells and napalm bombs. the place needs a good napalm cleansing, the Israelis should respond with napalm bombs every time those slimeballs lob a shell or fire a round into israel, I dont think it would take long for all of them to get religion, if you have seen the results of napalm you will agree,
Fuel-air bombs are the way to go. That is the way the Russians levelled Grozny. Fuel-air is extremely powerful, effective, and cheap, and the suction even kills rats hiding in the tunnels. Should be very effective in Lebanon, Syria, West Bank, Gaza, and Egypt.
Beautiful Reubacca! I love it in its simplicity! Also in reference to the post afterwards, In fact Israel (quietly) admitted to using Napalm in the Sinai, strafing the LONG, almost stationary lines of an Egyptian ARMY –and entire ARMY, attempting to make its way back across the Nile. They were simply decimated. And even the Israeli pilots interviewed said they felt the blast heat wave after dropping the napalm (in a dive bomb sort of approach) and even while pulling their planes up as HARD as they could — the Napalm blast overtook them and actually heated up their cockpit as they pointed practically straight up and turned on the afterburners. Tellingly though, not one Israeli pilot or air force commander took any glee or happiness in having to use that weapon against the motionless line of tanks, jeeps, and half-tracks that was the Egyptian Army back then. They hated having to do it, yet they knew they had to as it was either them or “us.” You Tube has some great documentaries on this.
But getting back to your original post — yes, hopefully unlike ’73 when Nixon finally after a long delay re-armed the Israelis (although arguably his decision had more to do with standing up to the Russian than helping the Israelis per se and many people say it was already too late to do much good — I don’t know about that as my knowledge of the Yom Kippur war is poor).
This time I believe the US has already stockpiled much arms for use by either country ultimately. Thank G-d for that (B/C I’m not about the thank our current President! That’s for damn sure).
Don’t miss the forest for the trees, here. You can’t go overnight from being North Korea to Berkeley. The Egyptians have been raised on a steady diet of hateful propaganda for generations, and it will take more than a few months to work that out of their systems. The point is that they get a pluralistic political system and a national conversation about their beliefs and priorities.
As long as the pluralism lasts, they’ll eventually decide that blaming Israel for everything isn’t an intelligent policy. In the meantime we continue to help defend the border for a dozen more years, instead of a dozen more generations.
Logic has nothing to do with this. These are true believers. The entire country suffers from savage-mob-mentality. Nothing – and I mean NOTHING – with satisfy these people but a good blood letting. Even if they kill every Copt in Egypt (the last remaining true Egyptians) they will somehow make it Israel’s fault.
I’m so sick of Islam!
For all it’s problems and flaws, the Egyptian Israeli peace treaty is important to both states, worthwhile and beneficial to Israeli security and legitimacy, and valuable to Egypt as both a sign of stability and an entrance pass to the West.
The truth is that all treaties have flaws and all of them, if not based on mutual needs and benefits, are subject to being torn up at any moment.
Israeli treaties with both Jordan and Egypt are certainly fragile and subject to constant criticism and review, but both of them have made the prospect of military confrontation between Israel and Egypt and Jordan far less likely even if most Egyptians and Jordanians continue to oppose the treaties and despise Israel.
This is not a simple part of the world, given the nature of the Arab Islamic countries, their lack of representative democracy, and their oppressive nature.
But no matter how difficult the situation of Israel vis a vis Egypt and Jordan, the present status quo of peace is a gazillion times better than the bellicose situation that existed before the treaties.
I love Rubin’s articles; but ending such a wonderful essay ungrammatically takes away a good deal of its intellectual power: “But when things are otherwise, having bad neighbors do[es] necessitate having good fences.”
We forget, at our peril that the world is ROUND. And we are not the only ones concerned with the ‘Islamist Problem’. Years ago I read a book. Yes it was quite an experience that I need to repeat someday. But, this was long before the current blossoming of the Islamic problem. The author actually forecast pretty much what has come to happen. Right up to and including the dithering West giving unintended encouragement to the Islamic troublemakers. In fact so much encouragement that the Islamist started looking farther afield and started to apply their ‘proven’ tactics on China. In the book, the Chinese performed the required diplomatic dances. Which, as expected had no success. But within 10 years Islam was a memory. It seems a ‘very’ tailored virus suddenly appeared out of nowhere and spread like wildfire. Striking only Arab and Islamic populations. There are those in this world who are not terribly finicky when it comes to cleaning up a mess.
If the Chinese have more problems with their Uiguhrs, I think they will use traditional brute force methods, like rounding up all the Muslim males at night and then burying them alive in the desert in huge trenches with big bulldozers. The Chinese don’t mess around, but they have numerical superiority and no qualms about using it.
Interesting you bring this up. i always wonder about the “China” factor. No way in hell would they pussy foot around.
Here in Toronto we have a large population of Chinese people, the majority of which are Christian. I often wonder how this will all play out in the year lets say 2050.
But then again the Chinese community tends to live in an isolated way. They go about their business. In school the cafeteria’s are still segregated, (unfortunate for the diversity champions who think they can change human nature)
The Chinese kids all hang out, the “brown’ SE Asian kids, the white kids etc..
Could the Chinese just continue living as they do and the Muslims live in their segregated Sharia compliant ghetto’s?
The Toronto Public School Board has already allowed a Mosque to operate in a Public School Cafeteria!
And Muslims around the world are going to look at this event and see the will of Allah in action — and the will of Allah with fruition.
Too often, we forget how important that concept of the will of Allah is in Islam. And that concept resonates with all Muslims!
I believe that we’re spinning into world war faster than we know.
Should’nt there be a new mantra-four countries for two peoples :Jordan, Samaria and Gazza for the so called Palestinians and Israel for us Jews ?
Jordan for the arabs (fauz-pals) while Israel needs to annex Judea, Samaria and Gaza. I think it’s obvious what happens when you trade land for peace, so just take away the option altogether and refuse to discuss it. Stop letting them shape the narrative.
Barry Rubin – what a truly magnificent piece of writing – needs to be read very widely! Congratulations!
Barry, I can only wonder what tolerating Lolly means. Or that she finds little rebuke.
“Remember your covenant with God. He hasn’t forgotten you and it will be by His hand that you are saved.”
I suggest Lolly take a look at the “junta” over at Michael Totten and advocate her interpretation of religious text as the basis US or Israeli policy towards Egypt.
Unlike many here, I see movement in frozen and stagnant Islamic cultures, because of the seed of American culture that was placed in Iraq. Cultures change at glacial speeds, and so the early results of American cultural judo in Iraq, of the Arab Spring, are very encouraging. Most revolutions fail with one Tyrant being replaced by another, so if all we get is “one man, one vote, one time” that is still a victory for American Culture.
Tyrants facing justice from cages in courtrooms, and purple fingers raise aloft are not examples of Islamic culture; they are symbols of an American Cultural victory. So, don’t be disheartened when you see the Muslim Brotherhood standing on top of the pile, as America is changing the very foundations of the pile and others are standing much more firmly, and when the Muslim Brotherhood falls, they will still be standing.
But of course…..the New Egypt will have burnt-up Israeli flags instead of bread, Jew-hatred instead of clean water. No surprise there, none at all.
And what about the atomic bomb? What are the odds that starving, crumbling, dissolving, collapsing, ragged, wretched Egypt will build a nuclear weapon?
Oh, about 100%.
American Jews on the political left need to read this type of material. Some of them really are doubting Obama. While the President is obviously is no friend to Israel – or freedom more generally – political and philosophical change comes only with great hesitation and difficulty to most everyone. Unfortunately too many people on the left would be turned off by the patriotic comparisons to Ft. McHenry / the War of 1812. Crazy – yes! (Please spare the knee jerk responses.) But a version of this piece that does not wrap itself in patriotism (that should be normal for all Americans) could open a few more liberal Jews’ minds. Some of them really are starting to notice.
Having fences to keep people out has always been a good idea. It is only when you build fences to keep people in that you have a problem.
What can you expect from a bunch of primitive barbarians who, other than procreating like flies, have produced nothing very much for over 3,000 years?
Re: “but precisely because a “modern” systematic ideology called Islamism insists that Sharia must be interpreted and enforced in a consistent, intransigent manner.” There’s the rub: If the Koran is interpreted as its author intended it to be, then there is no room for tolerance of other religions or philosophies. What we see happening today is inevitable as long the Koran exists and people claim to believe it. ‘Moderate’ Muslims (i.e. those who have Western liberal values)are not being faithful to the intentions of the Koran. They are being ‘bad’ Muslims, if you please. The worst of Islam that we see today is the result of the Koran being consistently interpreted. The worst of Christianity, on the other hand, is the Bible wrongly interpreted. If Jesus and others say: “Love your enemy, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you”, and supposed Christians do the opposite, then their actions are not the result of what is engrained in the Bible; whereas what we see today in the Muslim world is [the result of the Koran]. Any comments? Make me think otherwise please.
The solution is for Egypt’s democrats to build and maintain their own mobs. This may become ugly for a while, but it does work. It worked in England in the 1770s for the democrats. Unfortunately, it also worked for the Nazis of Germany in the 1930s.
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