In the wake of bloody Muslim attacks on Egyptian Christians, the New York Times informs us:
“By lifting the heavy hand of the Mubarak police state, the revolution unleashed long-suppressed sectarian animosities that have burst out with increasing ferocity….”
No kidding! Did you think a single Egyptian Christian didn’t know this in February? Why didn’t the media report or the U.S. government understand that this was absolutely inevitable and predictable? But the only mentions of Christians were to claim that they were really enthusiastic about the revolution.
The remaining Christians in most of the Arabic-speaking world may be on the edge of flight or extinction. All of the Christians have left the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip which is, in effect, an Islamist republic. They are leaving the West Bank. Half have departed from an increasingly Islamist-oriented Iraq where they are under terrorist attack. Within a few years they might all be gone.
In Lebanon, while the Christians are holding their own, there is a steady emigration. As for Syria, the community has generally supported the Assad regime fearing a revolutionary Islamist replacement. One dissident recalled that as he was being beaten in a Syrian prison a few years ago, the police yelled at him, “Why are you doing this? You’re a Christian!”
Egypt has more Christians than Israel’s entire population. There have been numerous attacks, with the latest in Cairo leaving 12 dead, 220 wounded, and two churches burned. The Western media generally attributes this to inter-religious battles. Yet Egypt’s Christians, so totally outnumbered and not having any access to the power of the state, have generally kept a low profile.
It is hard to believe that gangs of Christians go out and attack Muslims, especially when the fighting revolves around mobs attacking churches. “How can they say we started it when we are defending our church?” asked one Christian. That makes sense.
The Christians cannot depend on any support from Western churches or governments. Will there be a massive flight of tens or even hundreds of thousands of Christians from Egypt in the next few years?
Massive sit in occurring right now in Maspero, Egypt. Appx 10k (more or less) marched from various corners of Cairo. Largely Christian, some Muslim supporters demanding justice and protection as well as Tantawi to step down (that is probably stupid, but…). They stayed over night and are growing again today.
Al-Masry Al-Youm reported this:
“Salafi preacher Mohamed Hassan, for his part, called on all Islamic groups to reassure Muslims and Christians alike. ‘Egypt does not belong to the Muslims alone,’ he said. “And Copts are protected by Islam. They need not resort to the United States for that.’”
With those types of “assurances”, you don’t need threats. The arrogance of these muslims is really quite amazing to behold. Copts are none of Islam’s business and Egyptians better wake up to accepting the idea that you can either respect Christian, gay and women’s rights or grow a beard and put a head scarf on your wife and stare out the window at the ruins of Egypt.
I think they would rather stare out the window at the ruins of Egypt.
Unfortunately I agree; to say muslims are gluttons for punishment is an understatement.
In “1984″ George Orwell famously wrote “If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.”
That is also a picture of Islam. Why the American gov’t lets them into our country is a riddle to stand alongside the Sphinx the salafi’s might blow up.
Egypt protecting the Copts is in accordance with the koran letting them live as dhimmis. 2nd class citizens, many of which make a living by scrounging the trash piles for things they can resell to feed their families. And they live and die at the pleasure of the ummah.
Why don’t we swap Egypt it’s Christians for our muslims. Then their Christians can enjoy living under religious and political freedom and our muslims can live under sharia as they keep trying to impose here.
That’s exactly my point Walt. You’re free to practice your religion but only under an umbrella of Islam – obviously it’s not freedom but a type of casual religious slavery and 2nd class citizenship.
The Muslim Brotherhood openly opposes the idea of a woman or Christian being president and want it enshrined in the new constitution. If they succeed, they will destroy Egypt because they will only further institutionalized bigotry which will in turn be passed to their children as a role model on how to view anyone who is not a muslim male and by extension the entire world.
Separating church and state was brilliant in America and the failure to do so in Islam it’s great weakness. These people are simply mad and there is no other way to put it. At the same time you have people in the Western press who think opposing muslim immigration is bigotry and even racism since muslims are mostly not white according to liberals.
I find it funny to watch as PJM writers like Michael J Totten or commenters like James May, both of whom gushed with enthusiasm at the beginning of the so-called “Arab Spring”, are steadily triangulating their attitudes and comments now that Islamic fascism shows it’s inevitable face. For too long, duped, foolish, and deceptive Westerners have fed the West pleasant delusions and lies about the nature of our Islamic enemy. They’ve worked hard to “contextualize” Jihad rather than revelaing it as a universal and bloody feature of Islam.
Jihad is anything that advances Islam. Anything that advances Islam ultimately also advances terror and the potential of terror – all of it serves as a brutal and effective tool for the perpetual furthering Islam, or the maintenance of Islam’s grip once established. Very few civilizations have ever turned back the bloody advance of Islam one it is established, and those societies which have done so, Spain, Italy, Greece, Sicily for example, have only turned back the tide of Jihad through extremely bloody revolution.
You’re so full of feces that you find it hard to maneuver. First of all, this clash between the Copts and Christians is in no way different from last year: it is endemic and so symbolizes nothing in terms of post revolution Egypt. It was allowed in Alexandria and before that as well.
Unless you are prepared to explain this exact same type of clash in Alexandria in the weeks leading up to the New Year over the exact same issue of a women held against her will which ended in an explosion and death at the Two Sisters Church then I suggest you leave the commenting to those who actually do have a neutral stance.
If you would trouble to read my essays about Islam, which are from 3 years ago, not only do I not gush about Islam, I tear it a new one. My views about the basic degeneracy of Islam have not altered and my view about Orwell’s boot heel actually in the essays.
By clicking on my name you can read an essay about Sayd Qutb I finished a few weeks ago and it is not a love story but a story of a culture that is, in terms of it’s outlook about the West, hopelessly infantile, self-absorbed and with only the slightest inkling of self-criticism, balance or proportion.
It is also one predisposed to believe in false narratives that amounts to living in a world full of Loch Ness monsters and UFOs and that air of unreality is an old view of mine and not a new one and demonstrably so. I have felt this way about Qutb and the MB since I first read him.
Having said that, what happened in Egypt during the 18 days leading up to Feb.11 was historic and in no way about religion – the religion was already there as was the disdain for Israel and what they see as U.S. support for Israel. That is the view you yourself fail to absorb which is that Egypt was already an enthusiastically muslim country with a Constitution that legally enshrined sharia and with a shura council composed of what we call in English “consultation”. Surprise – Egypt is Islamic with all the foibles that entails.
If I predict something and I am wrong then I am wrong but sprinkled among my speculations yet to be proven wrong in the smallest way are also conspicuous comments that no one knows what is going to happen, not even the Egyptians; it is all a guessing game and I have no agenda to advance.
I am neither duped, foolish or deceptive. I doubt you even know what a salafi is in terms of what that term means inside and outside of Egypt or can name the single most important cause of the 1967 War which is not something one can easily Google to bolster ones keyboard warrior status.
In fact, you have no idea what is going on in Egypt since a predisposed agenda and attitude leads to nothing in terms of knowledge about post or pre-revolutionary Egypt but only what you want to believe and that is the same old, tired and Twitter-like view of Egypt as Iran 1979 and one-time, one vote.
That could happen but without describing an actual mechanism where it could come about and leaving the entire thing up to intent is childish. Secularist’s have intent here too as does the army as does a third of the people who still approve of Mubarak. So to do communists, socialists, labor unions.
Making a threat assessment is a little more complicated than saying “Well, the MB wants power.” Duh, really? The question is: how? You think Iran happened because of sheer desire divorced from an ability to carry out that desire?
There is also this thing called observing and learning: I am not trying to defend some default position in order to preserve some academic point scoring system regarding myself or reputation since I have none. Defending a no longer defensible position is not learning but sheer stubbornness and ego.
As for the fundamental idea of triangulating ones notions, this is also called learning and I am not sure why you regard it as stupid nor why you believe your own ignorant views need no triangulating. That is it’s own answer since one needs to be in possession of facts or at least an informed opinion in order to triangulate them.
In short, Islamic fascism is not showing it’s face in Egypt but has been here all along. Why do you think the Muslim Brotherhood has been banned for years or Sayd Qutb hung by Nasser or tourists murdered in Luxor years ago or police escorts needed for tourists to the South all the way to Abu Simbel since the Luxor incident or certain villages off-limits to tourists and still off-limits?
Nor is the prospect of the MB in parliament a new one as anyone with half a brain would know. What is new is what is obvious, everyone has had the fear of Mubarak taken away but it only brings new fears and that is what everyone is talking about – democracy or no.
It is a struggle and no one knows how it will turn out. Such a struggle without political violence as opposed to an already present sectarian violence outside the framework of law and vote and government IS democracy and the crucial outcome will depend on the honesty and willingness to respect the concept of a vote. Considering the circumstances and an army ruling the country the amount of actual democracy so far is astonishing.
What is not happening is often as important as what is happening and your smug attitude fails to take into account the lack of terrorist attacks so far or not one Israeli or U.S. flag burned during the 15 day occupation of Tahrir Square. When those things do happen no doubt your massive insights will tell us all you knew it all along but really your nuanced geo-political views resemble the broken clock that is right twice a day rather than a true assessment.
Everyone knows the MB would rule the world with Islam if they could and this has been so for years – this is not an issue of an intent but one of the ability to carry out that intent which is where you yourself are confused in regard to my comments. I have conspicuously written about separating out intent and the ability to carry it out which is something you and other refuse to address.
I have never for one minute viewed the MB as either secularist or peaceful – they are opportunists who will keep their heads down or up depending on survival and advancing their goals which are nothing new to anyone and so I have no idea why journalists triumphantly report MB declarations many have known for decades.
If an MB spokesperson comes out and says they want even more sharia, well then it’s a done deal and Egypt fallen. How hard is it to understand the difference between wanting to shoot a person and not having a gun. How hard is it to project what Hamas would do if they had an army as competent as Israel. This argument is not nor has it ever been about intent or a failure to recognize it, but the desire to dispassionately separate out the an ability to carry out intent.
You confuse that issue since you yourself do not base your opinions of threat on ability but only intent. In your mind, the fact that the MB has been for 83 years the Chicago Cubs of the middle east is entirely lost and in fact you parade it as success. That doesn’t mean that can’t change but citing 83 years of failure as if it is 83 years of success is ludicrous and mere intent a conquering army a stance without merit or nuance.
People here are worried about the MB; that is why El Baradei wants to have a Constitution drawn up now and why the MB opposes it. El Baradei as well as the secularist youth movement want a Constitution based on the will of the people and not by who has the most money and campaigning skills.
I usually would not respond to someone who opens with ‘poopy head’ (I paraphrase), but cutting through the fog of your rambling post:
You are apparently “neutral” about Islam, are extremely pleased with yourself because of it, whereas I am not, which makes you very angry.
I wonder how well we would have fared in WW2 had American analysts and reporters exhibited the same kind of “neutrality” and insouciance about the genocidal systems which animated that conflict, which you and your ilk exhibit viz. Islam? I suggest you and your ilk are not neutral, but serve as useful tools for an enemy ideology. MB, AQ, JI, Hamas, Hezbollah, are not deformations of Islam, but rather manifestations of Islam. These are what reformation within Islam looks like.
Finally, you trot out some obscure minutiae to prove how much you think you know about Islam and the region, and suggest I know nothing about it. Then isn’t it strange that from the moment this so-called “Arab Spring” arose, I argued that it would inevitably lead to the rise of worse Islamic groups and lead away from democracy? If you know so much about Isma NAND the region, why could you not see what I knew was inevitable? And you DID gush (readers can find your breathless posts here at PJM if they want to waste a little time…). You join Michael J. Totten, (with whom you share many traits, including a brittle intolerance for dissent, and a sorry tiresome tendency for self-promotion), who gushed about the Cedar Revolution, the Kosovar Revolution, and the Arab Spring, only to see each of those too devolve into more bloody advances for Islam, and retreat for decency and humanity. You are both profound clueless fools.
Bravo! #2.
James May’s pronouncements from high on the slippery slopes of misty Olympus aren’t quite as thunderous as he’d hope.
They are if English is popular in your cabana.
I am not “neutral” about Islam but try and observe real events which are two totally different things. I am not a cultural relativist and my comments show it and essays prove it – you ignore it to score straw man debating points.
To whatever extent I am angry, it is because you are a propagandist trying to pass yourself off as a neutral, informed, dispassionate observer – this is why you portray facts as only “obscure minutiae” and I am therefore not “suggesting” you don’t know what you’re talking about but saying it outright and your lack of rebuttal and continual lack of stating anything in the past or now about what “obsure minutiae” lead you to your predictions points up that fact. I guess it’s just superior judgment and instincts – base on what is the mystery you guard like the gold of the Incas since you will not write it but only your conclusions.
You say you “argued” about the inevitable rise of radical groups but what you continually will not say or display is the actual argument. You just say it, say it’s your opinion and there are no “obscure minutiae” to show how you reasoned those points out – that’s wishful thinking and propaganda, not an “argument”. If you actually have an argument, I sure as hell wish you’d bring it because it is nowhere in sight nor will it ever be with facts relegated to the back of the bus as “obsure minutiae”.
And I did not “gush” and nor do my essays and you can’t show a single comment where I ever did such a thing. It is more straw man and wishful thinking passed off as reason. Also, since I have nothing to promote I am not sure what self-promotion I am indulging in.
I am not a writer nor do I have a blog and my parking space for my essays have no ads. I like writing – I like swimming too but I’m not crossing the English Channel any time soon. I have climbed 20 volcanos around the world – that is a lot of effort – guess what – I’m not a vulcanologist. I have a lot of hobbies I like and put energy towards – they are hobbies. That is a word in the English dictionary.
Please don’t compare me to egotistical heroic men who stand up to Hizbollah cocktail waitresses after opining about it for 48 hours whose ass-kissing trolls keep up his commentary count so he won’t be dropped by PJM for his Twitter-like “journalism” that is stingy and terse to the point of truculence followed by holding out a cup for alms. Nor would I ever blacklist people as he routinely does. I know since I am one of them: my crime – common sense and facts as opposed to defamation and lies.
Just a small smattering of James May’s asinine pronouncements on the topic of Egypt’s downfall. This took about 10 minutes to gather — really kind of a waste of time — but this windbag needs to be confronted with some of his own quotes:
James May suggesting Islam is not fueling the Egyptian revolution– February 15 2011
“It doesn’t seem likely that the protesters who took to the streets to be beaten, shot, gassed and arrested did so in the name of putting themselves under the yoke of the Muslim Brotherhood. I don’t think they’ll put up with it and I have not heard one word from the protesters about this being in any way about religion. “
LOL
James May gushing: February 2 2011
“I have been in Egypt as an American for a year and I have had nothing but the word “welcome” used when I tell them I am an American and I am never around Egyptians with money. I have not had one single hostile look or comment.”
Another Western fool taken in by that singular Arabic charm in which they smile in your face and stab you in the back… A little sweet tea and an “America Number One!” is enough to buy this guy off like a cheap hooker.
James May revealing his fatuousness: February 3, 2011
“To write that there is a “rabid hatred of America and the West” in Cairo is utter nonsense that comes close to an outright lie.”
LOL. There you go again name calling those who know one hell of a lot more than you do!
James May gushing again in complete ignorance of the country he’s spent the last year in: February 2, 2011
“One thing for sure will take Egypt down, and that is any kind of anti-Western outlook in general which I am happy to say is really not in evidence in Egypt generally and, with the new generation, is even less so than ever”
Later in the same post he tells how easy it is to see copies of “Mein Kampf” in all the book store windows across Cairo — it’s the number one selling Western book in Egypt and Turkey. I guess as a Western byproduct, pro-Nazi isn’t exactly anti-Western, so I guess this one goes to the nuanced James May…
James May showing again his wonton ignorance of the facts: February 5 2011
“… despite what outsiders say, the Muslim Brotherhood simply lacks the sheer numbers to effect any kind of a protest like the one that has taken place and I don’t see them in any way as being the cause of them but rather jumping on the bandwagon so to speak”
(*less than two weeks later between 2 and 3 million MBs chanting “To Jerusalem we march, Martrys in the millions…!)
LOL LOL
James May showing an amazing resilience to seeing reality a mere few days ago…: May 7, 2011
“As far as how the democracy’s working out for them: considering the enormous problems they face, not bad – so far so good. Why be a cynic? If something bad happens wait for it, don’t predict something you obviously know nothing about.
That’s called projection and wishful thinking and it tells us a whole hell of a lot more about you than anything happening in Egypt.”
LOL
James May in full bore idiocy: February 14 2011
“Present day Egyptians are not Arabs.”
What a tool.
Hmm – seems like James May is the one projecting his imbicilic silliness onto matters of dire consequence, and insulting those with far more sense and insight than he has. If you want to waste a little time, a quick google of “James May” and Pajamas will show anyone interested how often he hurls insults and indictments at people who clearly understand events far better than he does.
That’s it? That’s what you came up with? I stand by every one of those comments and they are true.
Since when is telling the truth about how everyone has greeted me gushing?
Every once in a while I run into people whose minds literally don’t work. They think they do but don’t really understand how to parse English and use reason and logic. You’re one of them.
There isn’t a general anti-Western outlook here unless you think everyone I talk to is a liar in the way they treat me – “Mein Kampf” is pointedly an anti-Semitic thing, not anti-American and I have said from the very beginning that 95% of Egyptians don’t like Israel.
“(*less than two weeks later between 2 and 3 million MBs chanting “To Jerusalem we march, Martrys in the millions…!)”
That above comment is a straight up lie since I was actually there and shows how little you possess facts.
Nothing in your comments is true and you think they are. Egyptians are not Arabs. Everyone here knows that. People think all sorts of stupid things. The Sudanese are Arabs killing black folks. That was good until someone told Louis Farrakhan there’s no Arabs in the Sudan.
So you produced nothing which I knew you couldn’t already. Also, you’ll find the name calling mostly doesn’t start with me but you couldn’t trouble yourself to add a thing called context.
What is funniest is that not only did you not predict anything, you can’t even tell me what is going on here that you predicted. Let’s concentrate on that. Tell me what’s happening here that you predicted. I’m saying you can’t do that either. Any time you think you or anyone else understands events here better than me there’s nothing preventing you from actually talking about it. Fail. Troll some more.
Morton, let all patriots-in Israel & the US-recall Obama’s (hidden) hand in the empowerment of his Brothers.There is VERY strong evidence that Obama activists/shock troops were on the ground several months before the ‘spontaneous’ Arab spring.
Few have wondered why Tahir Square was the focal point of the media, and little else was shown.Few understood that core activists from Obama’s community organizing/agitating days were on the ground orchestrating these eruptions for ‘democratic’ change.
Even fewer understand the power which the Brothers have in Washington.Though they were implanted years ago, primarily with the aid of Grover Norquist,( a good friend of Rove, as he trolled for Muslim votes)a VERY dangerous Islamist, posing as a conservative activist,the Brothers have become exponentially more active/emboldened under Obama’s watch.
Has anyone wondered why Holder is holding up/blocking prosecution of known/unindicted co-conspirators from the HolyLand Trial, ALL of whom are linked to the Brothers?
While under Bush’s watch the evidence against them was slowly being accumulated, there is NO indication that prosecution was shelved.This prosecution is being held up under orders from Obama.
I urge EVERY reader who cares about the stealth takeover of the US, via Muslim Brotherhood activists, to read the most well documented book on the subject-The Muslim Brotherhood, by Gaubatz and Sperry.For further edification read, Infiltration by Sperry.Pass it on to all who care about the most important issue of the day-the takeover of the US by the Muslim Brotherhood.This is NOT just an Egyptian/ME problem.Far, far from it!!
If CNN would broadcast the Palestinian version of The Cartoon Channel by way of “The Pioneers of Tomorrow”, America might wake up.
They talk about American Islamophobia but can you imagine such a show in Israel or America?
Kids in America can’t have a paring knife in high school or in certain instances an “I love America” t-shirt but the Al-Aqsa Institute of Minnesota can use a high school to advise us all about Jewish settlements on the West Bank while they conspicuously hide their notions about women and gays.
Well said, Morton. Those who saw an “Arab Spring” and thought it was more about freedom than religion clearly were fooling only themselves. In Islam, to paraphrase, Vince Lombardi, “religion isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.” Any one who tries to deny this basic fact will never get it right.
It was about freedom – the religion was already there. How many more times must that be said in English? If you cry wolf on this one who’s going to listen to you when your opponents use this very idea which is not true to thrust in your face when you’re saying something else that IS true about Islam?
Don’t you get that? This is an argument being fought in public all over the West and if you wreck your credibility then what do you have left – important truth no one will listen to because you lied about nothing important.
No one listens to the Daily Kos because it is an echo chamber. If you create that here you’ve lost. Arguments are won with facts and if you posit muslims are always in the wrong you have no argument but instead something that can be used against you. Propaganda or facts: take your pick. Smart, smart arguments based on facts can win this. Don’t concentrate on the MB coming to power, concentrate on their words. People will see for themselves what they are when they then see them.
There should be senate sub-committee hearings about the MB and other groups in the U.S and not like the King debacle which was a disaster and made people feel sorry for muslims who work against us. Smart questions centered around hate speech not fantasies about people who may oppose the MB. Not everyone in Egypt likes the MB or salafis.
Geert Wilders, Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff, Theo van Gogh, dozens of cartoonists, and thousands more in Europe would argue that so-called “hate speech” laws are used most often by the enemies of free speech, not by free speech advocates. It even has a name “law fare”, and the Muslims happily deploy it in their arsenal of Jihad. The notion that the terrorism of Islam, or the that the genocidal creeds of Islam, or that Islam’s rape and advance into the West can be fought with Western “hate speech” laws is asinine. Only jackass would suggest it. Oh wait… never mind.
I know, that what I said about hate speech. The problem is that you have to be able to parse English sentences as do morons who say “bravo” without the slightest understanding of what they are saying.
The funny thing that my eyes have burned over from laughing is that you can’t even tell me what’s going on in Egypt that you predicted.
I mean, think about that one for a second.
I’d love to see your version of an encyclopedia based on personal arrogance.
You guys are a laugh riot. No, I mean it. I literally have had to dab my eyes with napkins because of the burning.
wrong, James. sheesh! how stubborn can onebe?
“…more about freedom than religion…”
Umm, can you provide a source for that other than overweening arrogance?
Thanks.
Bravo!
Those of us who know Islam predicted this even as the Affirmative Action Anchor Baby gave the go ahead to oust Mubarak . Just as we predicted exactly how weak and vacillating the Anchor Baby would be as President. BTW if its wicked and evil to waterboard someone why is Obambi hailed as a hero for ordering shooting someone in the head, or is this just another example of left wing moonbat HYPOCRISY in action.
Do you ever listen to youselves: “those of us who know Islam.”
You don’t know jack s–t and you haven’t predicted jack s–t.
Well I know you are a prat James so thats a start.
Mmmm lets see which big mouthed know it all has the most posts on this thread in fact an answer to just about everybody. Well what do you know stand up and take a bow Mr May.
Would it kill you to stand up and let some facts take a bow?
You don’t have any.
You’re just another keyboard intellect who is offended when your views from 5,000 miles away on a subject you know nothing about are not respected because of your sheer intellect and superior judgment which trumps any notions about opinions forming around actual knowledge and so of course you have no respect for opinions formed in such a way and no possibility of rebuttal either.
In your politically correct world stating something with confidence is gauche as is taking offense to propaganda that almost rises to the standard of an outright lie. Are you here to learn something or to have a Daily Kos-like experience which merely confirms your own brilliant insights into the world around us?
Let’s see. What does that leave you with? Well I guess it’s your marvelously clever ad hominy grits with the straw hat, corn cob pipe and wall the town fool sits on top of to go with it.
Nicely done as is acting out a role that is the exact opposite of a pragmatist – pratmatist? Maybe.
Seems like I am not the only poster on here who is fed up with the “I know everything and you are an idiot’ postings by the egotistical arrogant malignant narcissist James may. Understandable of course because even when James agrees with you he turns it in to a sneering insult.
Dr. Rubin, this is the perfection of the Obama Doctrine in the global community and especially the Middle East.
The Obama Doctrine sees the Arab Islamic World as badly misunderstood and oppressed by the West, particularly America, and as a result, any dysfunctional Arab or Islamic behavior, however regrettable, is not the fault of the culture of the Arabs, or the religion of Islam, but rather fundamentally caused by America and Western Colonialism.
This used to be the American New Left, old time USSR, view of the Middle East, and from what I know about President Obama, he was raised and inculcated with this sort of weltanshaung by his parents.
“Rather than the radical nationalists battling the Islamists, these two forces might well work together.”
They already are. The nationalists in the Army are already working with the Islamists in the Muslim Brotherhood right now, which will probably make an unbeatable alliance in September. And yet both Obama and his staff said that there was nothing to fear from the Muslim Brotherhood. What fools. Once the Islamists take over in September, not only will the remaining Christians be forced to leave, but Israel will be in major danger of being attacked by Egypt as well.
Also, another reason to believe that the Christians are finished in Egypt is that the Army right now is doing nothing to protect them. Have you heard about any major arrests being made after the most recent attacks on Christians? Have any Muslims, let alone radical Islamists, been rounded up and put in jail? Well, if they have, the Army is keeping it really quiet. Nope, it is open season on Christians in Egypt and soon it will be Israel. And Obama and his staff said that there was nothing to worry about. Sure.
In fact, they have been rounded up and put in jail and it’s in all the papers – the ones you don’t take the trouble to read in favor of your inner voice which is judge, jury and executioner laughingly passed off as some dispassionate view of Egypt.
Exactly what is it you’re selling?
I didn’t recognize your post, Mr. May, because it was so short, and silly too. I’m not selling anything, exept that our own administration said that there was nothing to worry about with the Muslim Brotherhood while Mubarak was being overthrown. Now it seems Egypt is starting to slide right into the grip of the Islamists and that the Muslim Brotherhood stands the most to gain from this. Even if the Nationalists take over, it will only because they will have formed an alliance with the Muslim Brotherhood. And, hey, you don’t have to take my word for it. Just wait until the fall and watch it all play out. That’s really what you get when you have a naive president who encourages people to overthrow a dictator without knowing who or what is going to replace him.
As for your being snotty, can it and save it for the trolls, like yourself. Maybe that will penetrate your “inner voice” which should be telling you what a jerk you are. I just made a comment without insulting anyone. Clearly you feel compelled to behave differently.
With all due respect – Obama is NOT naive. His buddies Ayers and Dorn weren’t in Egypt on vacation. They were stirring the hornets nest and everything went according to plan.
Here’s a link to the snotty arrests you politely said didn’t happen.
http://english.ahram.org.eg/~/NewsContent/1/64/11754/Egypt/Politics-/Seventeen-suspects-in-sectarian-violence-detained-.aspx
Get over yourself. You said something that wasn’t true with smug assurance and you’ve been taken to the cleaners. Admit it. Also, your characterization of events on the ground is totally false. Admit that or I’ll show it up.
“I just made a comment without insulting anyone.”
Wrong, you made a comment based on personal arrogance that I knew and proved was a lie the moment you said it.
I find that offensive and so I take it as an insult as I do all baseless propaganda that in reality is based on the comical idea of a superior intellect and judgment without regard to facts which in some amazing coincidence are not discussed or sourced.
What is this suddenly, Pravda? They’re more balanced and accurate so I don’t know. What’s the opposite of curiosity?
Just can’t admit when you’re wrong, can you, Mr. May? Wow, an ego like that really needs some serious psychological help, bud. I guess you don’t want to read my replies, because you’re not even bothering to answer any of my questions or evidence. Now you’re even determining the motives of why people said what they said. You need serious help son.
Let’s see – you say this:
“Have any Muslims, let alone radical Islamists, been rounded up and put in jail?”
And then I put a link to a newspaper article showing that the army arrested the people you say weren’t arrested.
And I’m wrong.
My, that IS flexible thinking and you’ve convinced me you repaired your bike’s flat tire when you were a kid by staring at it.
I’m recommending Orwell’s “1984″. There’s this “doublethink” thingy in there about looking at black and seeing white I’m sure you’ll find quite entertaining once you learn to parse the English language.
Hint: you can’t stare at it and get results: books are immune to overweening arrogance and will power.
I’m afraid you’ll have to open the cover and put on the headphones with your Rosetta Stone DVD.
Don’t you get tired of being slapped around in public? I mean, it’s gotta sting a bit for a guy who predicts world events through sheer confidence and thinking a lot.
You just make it too easy, Jimmy. Now you’re not even reading your own post and link. You said, “And then I put a link to a newspaper article showing that the army arrested the people you say weren’t arrested.” The dubious link you cited (which I never even heard of) said the POLICE made some arrests, which means NOTHING in a corrupt country like Egypt. This may not even be true, since none of these reports seem to have made it to places like The New York Times, your holy grail of “truth” and “objectivity.” The Egyptian ARMY is doing nothing about this and without them cracking down on attacks against Christians, nothing will stop the radical Islamists from continuing their murder spree. It is the ARMY that controls the power in Egypt, not some local police force.
So you’re not even reading your own links now. Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, I’m sure people have told you before never to write anything until the effects of your medication has worn off.
And, once again, you are NOT answering my original point that Obama and his administration said that there was nothing to worry about with the Muslim Brotherhood. I guess you Kool Aid drinkers from MoveOn just can’t admit when your messiah has secrewed up.
So stop worrying, Jimmy. The facts are out there, bud. You only have to READ them. Assuming you CAN read.
LOSER.
I note that while Egypt predictably gets slowly strangled by the Muslim Brotherhood and it’s duped allies, Syria shoots 100′s of people in the streets and the US State Department calls Assad a reformer, then writes a strongly worded letter. Hillary Clinton will have to answer for that one. She is the most overrated Sec of State I can think of since Warren Christopher.
Wasn’t Madeline Albright in there somewhere near the top as well?
Nickel,
You mean “Aunt Bea”? She was not as bad as Christopher.
Samizdat,
I have to disagree. When I consider Madeline Albright role in the breakup of Yugoslavia and the tenor of her public appearances (at least the ones I have seen) in the succeeding years, she appears so unfit for the job of secretary of state. My criticism of her is not personal, for example, I thought James Baker was far more dangerous precisely because he was both competent and served what I consider to be unfriendly interests. But the way Albright presents herself leaves me with the impression that she had no business serving as secretary of state.
Steve,
Your point about the Slavic break up is a good one, however Christopher presided over state in the post cold war era where a vacumn was created by his failure to embrace the reality of the changing of the guard and the transition away from a soviet centric policy where a refocus on the islamic states in the midddle and far east would have been helpful for US interests pre 9/11. Christopher was a peace dividend believer and didn’t redirect State’s focus toward the rise of Islamofacism. Albright continued this policy. The slavic balkanization developed as a side show that Nato became obsessed with. Meanwhile, Bin Laden and company were establishing themselves as a menace in the post Soviet Era. Khobar Towers, the Embasy bombing and the Cole incident all occured on Albrights watch, but the lack of focus at state was Christopher’s baby initially. We reaped the results of his disengagement later.
The Egyptian brotherhood of cockroaches seem to be multiplying, now that’s a surprise. In my mind it always has been pretty simple what would take place, the brotherhood would prevail, and so it seems. No zealot like a religious one. I think the only way that this Islamic plague can be defeated is when they become power full enough that we are forced to do something, until then academic bull shit will prevail.
Isn’t it strange that James who thinks he knows EVERYTHING tells everyone else they know nothing while at the same time making a complete fool of himself.
You do know that you’re allowed to debate and make your own assertions that would challenge mine don’t you?
You’re not trapped in a block of transparent plastic unable to voice your own views with you’re mouth frozen in a “Nooooooo!” while others speak.
Aside from a perceptual trap I mean. Obviously in that sense someone put a Harry Potter-like spell on you that turned your brain synapses into an event horizon.
For anyone still not paying attention:
The Obama administration is the first pro-Islamist administration U.S. history, in fact and in deed, whether or not it’s stamped on the letterhead at the White House or the State Department or not.
They don’t give a crap what Muslims do to Christians or Jews because they don’t give a crap about Christians or Jews. This is pretty simple stuff to figure out if you stop trying to read in deeper reasons or plans that just aren’t there.
Yep! Yep! Yep! Me be a Virginia Lollygager and thinkin of heading for the hills!
Everything that is happening in Egypt was seen coming. Those people that say ” we could not have predicted” are only lying to themselves.
What can we predict about the “rebels” in Libya? Yes, they only want freedom from oppression. Not the freedom to be the oppressors.
Pied piper obama keeps marching on to the peril of America.
Thanks to all who voted for him.
“Everything that is happening in Egypt was seen coming. Those people that say ‘ we could not have predicted’ are only lying to themselves.”
What IS happening in Egypt pray tell and name me one person anywhere on this planet who saw it and described the mechanism whereby it came about?
This is getting truly absurd to listen to this nonsense. Tell me all-seeing one, what is a salafi in the Egyptian sense and what is their relation to a sufi? Google that because I’m absolutely certain you have only the faintest idea. Wouldn’t, as a prerequisite, knowing such a simple thing and 100 things like that be necessary to make such bold and absurd statements about your predictive abilities?
If it’s possible for people to lie to themselves then by your definition that a lie can be unwitting, you are lying on a public forum.
Look – not to be rude, but LOT’S of people warned that while the energy might be coming from people who just wanted “freedom” it was GOING to be hijacked by the islamists – the Brotherhood in particular. Plenty of mentions of Iran thrown in for good measure. It was logical and EVERYBODY saw it coming. This really is no surprise!
Logic is based on facts and reason when it comes to such predictions.
And exactly when did the MB hijack the revolution. Better come here and tell the people cuz it hasn’t actually happened. It’s not from lack of trying which was predictable but once again you act as if intent is reality.
It isn’t.
If someone wants credit for predicting the Superbowl, I want to hear reasons based on statistics and performance and a cogent assessment.
What you’re saying is, “I knew they’d win.” That’s not impressive or persuasive. Why is everyone having so much trouble with a cogent argument to back up their “predictions”, the ones they can’t even say has actually happened but do anyway.
Saying, “Iran” is not a magic “argument” but childishness with not a scrap of nuance.
If the Copts find their position increasingly untenable where will they go? They have no Coptic Israel to welcome them. It took a few years after Israels independance for things to deteriorate for Jews in Arab lands to the point where they left en masse. It was a gradual process. Will they hang their service medals in the storefront like the Jews of Berlin? Will they count on civil democracy or western opinion to save them?
Copts of Egypt in general have no more love for their Jewish neighbors than the Muslims, maybe less. They should take a lesson from them nonetheless. Dont count on anyone but yourselves.
As someone who has no direct on-the-ground knowledge of Egypt, but is well-read in the history of ideological conflicts, Mr. Rubin’s concerns strike me as well-founded. Egyptian leaders are not concealing their desire to scrap the peace treaty with Israel. In fact, they are boasting about it. Israel, and ultimately, America, has a big problem. One possible scenario is obvious: Egypt is opening up to Gaza. Weapons will flow in. Hamas will launch attacks. Israel will respond. Egypt will claim that Israel’s response nullifies provisions of the Camp David Accords, which nullifies the peace treaty, which justifies the sending in of additional military units into the Sinai to “protect” the Palestinians…. reminds me of the Passover song Chad Gad Ya.
Steve,
You express my sentiments as well. The post Mubarak “leaders” in Egypt have voiced a recuring theme that peace with Israel is not a permanent thing. How much of this is for public consumption at home is debateable, but you can rest assured that the MB takes it as an article of faith.
I know Mr. May believes that the revolution and civil reconstruction in Egypt will pattern out differently than what ultimately happened in Russia 1917-1921 or Iran 1979-81, but it seems to be closely resembling those two revolutions that were initially founded in movements toward freedom from a percieved oppressor through democracy, which were quickly overcome by organized political forces that diverted the upheaval to their purposes and crowded out other disenting voices that initially helped ignite the unrest. I will say that the one major difference in Egypt is the extent of power the military possesses when compared to Russia and Iran at the times of their revolutions.
However you cut it, the evidence does not look good for Israel, my bet is that open hostility will once again ring them. If it becomes an existential threat, many people may find that the “Arab Spring” was an ephemeral event that never led to an “Arab Summer”.
I have to believe that the Israelis always knew that the peace treaty with Egypt as well as the Oslo Peace Process were time-limited measures to buy a brief respite before the resumption of open conflict. At some point, they would have to deal with the underlying realities which are unchanged. Events in Iran, Egypt and now between Hamas and Fatah, as well as the fading away of the Holocaust-effect on European attitudes toward the Jews, suggest that the time is approaching.
Ezekiel 38-39. I just didn’t think it would happen so fast. Now reports out of Russia are that their youth are really into the Elders of Zion.
Steve I think you will find that Mohammedans do not make TREATIES they make HUDNA’S which in Islam last a maximum of 10 years or until THEY are strong enough to start fighting again. Now they will say to the naive , gullible Western moonbats that its a TREATY and the moonbats of course believe them. But to their own they will always call it a HUDNA . Moonbats of course are completely oblivious to the Islamically approved TAQQIYA (LYING for the protection or ADVANCEMENT of Islam) and think Mohammedans are honourable men. What a joke.
No, I don’t believe that – I have no idea how it will turn out. Having said that, I don’t believe the Muslim Brotherhood can come to power on their own. The Constitution already is sharia based and a Christian cannot be president. This is largely a fight to change that to a more secular gov’t and not make it more religious. You are proposing that you fear something that is already a done deal and has been for decades.
This is not Iran or Russia so whatever happens you can’t use those mechanisms and project them onto Egypt – Egypt will have it’s own mechanisms and it is there that there are so many opinions but devoid of facts based on actual realities in Egypt. Everybody has lovely predictions they are crowing about and not one of them is demonstrably true.
Can anyone say “Two Sisters” look it up, notice it’s Alexandria Copts/muslims fighting and dying pre-revolution and parse that out? Same thing as now. So where’s the “now” that’s so different?
What I do believe and have said 20 times is that if someone thinks Egypt is the next Iran tell-me-how-in-plain-English-what-facts-have-led-you-to-this-conclusion.
Asking why the Obumer administration and the Lame Scream Media didn’t see this coming means you don’t understand, “Hope and Change!!!” The concept of unintended consequences is foreign to the afore mentioned groups! By the way, has anyone heard or read about what is going on in Libya? I imagine it isn’t going well for the Rebs.
It must first be said that Barry Rubin is doing a great job giving us the dope on Egypt’s badly and rapidly deteriorating situation. But on the home page link to this article Dr. Rubin asks the same old question: “Why didn’t … the U.S. government understand that this was absolutely inevitable and predictable?” And having asked it, he leaves the question hanging.
Well, Prof. Rubin, I’ll answer it for you. The U.S. government – and that includes Obama himself – did understand, just as you, and I, and a great many others, that all this was absolutely inevitable and predictable. Your question should have been, since they did understand it, why did they let it happen? The answer is: because they wanted it to happen, helped it along, and are still doing so. You’re in denial, that’s all.
I agree with everything you said except I would in a, “and coming to a neighborhood near you,” to boot!
Well, I hate to jump in the middle of this fight, but I would like to point out that some facts may need to be sorted out without wholesale condemnation of the entire Egyptian society.
First, not to burst anyone’s perception of good Christians being martyrs in front of the heathen Muslim, the Coptic Church may be involved in something pernicious that we would not suffer or own churches to do. The young woman who was allegedly kidnapped has been all over the news over there, putting her face and name out on the issue.
Apparently, she was married to a Christian guy who threw her out, pregnant and all, after accusing her of sleeping with his brother several years ago. She stayed with her parents, gave birth, went to school and met a Muslim guy that she wanted to marry. She wasn’t divorced. The easiest way in Egypt to obtain a divorce apparently is to change your religion, officially through the registrar’s office. Immediate grounds that the Coptic Church will accept (they have very few allowances for divorce).
Unfortunately, they don’t accept that as well anymore since many of the young Coptic women know that tactic. So, she ran off with her “fiancee” instead of staying to confront her family. At some point, they were out of money so she called her family who came and got her and then, apparently, staged an intervention slash deprogramming where they sent her to various places to meet with elders, nuns, etc.
She said it was imprisonment. however, she did have her cell phone with her (which makes it difficult to believe it wasn’t in some part under her own initiative to submit to the intervention, but hard to say). At the last, when they were taking her to the registrar to officially change her religion back, she seems to have changed her mind and called a professor from her school to come and get her (not her fiancee). The professor called her boyfriend/fiancee. He showed up w/20 guys demanding her release. The baker across the street fired a shot into the air (this is Imbaba, which, more practically should be called Casa de Ali Baba and his 40 thieves). These guys left.
However, they sent a message to a friend who then passed it along via twitter that was then spread like wild fire (yes, some under the hash tag #anasalaf I am Salafi) which is where the 500 or so guys came from to charge the church about fifteen minutes after prayers ended.
In the mean time, according to the young woman involved, the people at the Church turned her loose, fearing an attack. At which time, or sometime within it, a detective called her phone and asked where she was. Instead of answering, she says she hung up and simply left, melting into the crowds.
The police came and there was no one in the church, but the crowd did not buy it. The Christians, in the mean time, had come in a big mob as well to protect the church, bearing sticks, knives and molotov cocktails. They took position on top of the church and nearby apartment building. Both crowds were apparently lightly armed with a few guns. Shots were fired. The crowd on top of the church threw molotov cocktails down, setting trash on fire next to the building.
Some of the crowd below ran up the apartment building, with the police (I think this is where the police should have their @$$ handed to them) and proceeded to throw cocktails at the “snipers” on the roof, setting the church on fire.
Sadly, the crowd below went crazy and torched the apartment complex as well as smashed the bakery across the street owned by the Christian guy that had originally fired off a shot to disperse the crowd. (read my blog for other details and links to video and eyewitness accounts)
I don’t exactly condemn the church, but they are fighting a dirty war on this matter if any part of it is true. obviously, if a Muslim were to convert to Christianity, there would be hell to pay and growing the Christian faith beyond births is about non-existent in Egypt. At the same time, no one should be forced to try to renege their choice of religion.
On the other hand, parts of this girls story may not be completely true. She has mostly stayed on story, but left out the part about contacting her family for money and possibly feeling obligated to try their little intervention in some reports. On top of that, her family and her fiancee are from “upper Egypt”, Alexandria there abouts, and it is difficult to comprehend how her fiancee showed up in Imbaba so quickly when he was either, per her story, somewhere in the south or back in upper Egypt looking for her.
Plus, she had her phone.
The Salafis have video and internet posts up claiming that the Christians have bought weapons from Israel to fight the Muslims and are, were part of the Mubarek regime. Worse, they are kidnapping Muslim sisters (a serious point of honor)
On a good note, the alleged boyfriend has been arrested along with the Salafi preacher who put out the videos calling for the burning of churches. On a bad note, it is difficult to tell whether this is a true story or some sort of act to stir up existing stress points.
I don’t think even half of Egypt has made up it’s mind on the subject. They are all focusing on the “counter revolutionary forces” that are trying to destroy their new Egypt while demanding unity marches that, essentially, won’t solve a thing.
They know what the problem is, but it isn’t going to be solved over night.
Well, that was fun cleaning up your mistakes. Usually to hear such a chorus of unadulterated and uninformed nonsense you have to go to the Kos.
Apparently they’ve decided to hack PJM to have some fun and flex the “knowledge” they don’t know.
Next time there’s a clean up on aisle three just let me know. I’m awful bored acting as an English interpreter for keyboard jockey’s who think there’ve ever been anything even close to 2 to 3 million people gathered in one place in Egypt in the last 5 thousand years – especially all MB chanting death to someone or other.
If I wanted to read stories like that I could just pick up a science fiction book about swine creatures who took over Moldavia which cyperpunk keyboardist’s predicted while jacked into cyberspace from where you can look down and see everything that’s happening in Egypt and Mars too.
Right now I can see what’s happening in Bali and China and make predictions just based on my instinct and judgment which are so superior I consider facts to be laughingly irrelevant. Only a pedant would use facts to predict a baseball game when the cooler uniform can clearly point out the winner.
Normally I’d say I’d like to debate you in a public forum with actual people but winning a debate is not fun when a person is so dense they don’t even know they’ve lost. When you’re never wrong, even if you’ve never set foot in Egypt, that’s a pretty hard argument to win.
I honestly never thought about using it as an actual debating tactic. I’ll try it and see what happens.
I’m never wrong.
I win! Wow, that’s cool. No facts or nothing needed just a piacular neck and some Juicy Juice.
Egypt is lost now in internal strife. That will evolve into some sort of new political reality.
That much is undeniable. Political parties will take time to evolve.
Egypt is politically, economically, and militarily weak at this point. Worst mistake the transitional leadership can do they are doing now. Opening up to Iran, Hamas and thereby inviting in elements they will not be able to control if they hope to transition to a representative democracy.
That does not bode well for Egyptians . They need trade and transition to a more open economy. At the same time gas revenues from Israel and Jordan are sabotaged. Israel will be within a few more years energy independant. Security from Gaza is a big problem for Egypt.
Egypt has kept up a credible defense force with US help. They have suffered because leadership is political and as much turned inward as outward. Yet any military would much rather sacrifice against the external enemy than their own people. That never sustains in the long run.
Flame wars are tedious sometimes but entertaining. Keep it up guys.
I have to admit that I am having a great time exploring this idea of predicting geo-political events from a computer using sheer arrogance and personal confidence. It is like a whole new world has opened up before me.
Facts are kind of annoying and it involves having a real life rather than a virtual one which is hard because then it involves going outside and reading things and stuff like that and we all know where that could lead.
The next time I go camping, I’m going to try and get the tent to stay up using the sheer force of my personality instead of poles. Heck, maybe I can make the rain stay off me just by knowing I’m right to not want rain on me.
I think our commenter Mr. May is a foreigner. Note the syntax:
The funny thing that my eyes have burned over from laughing is that you can’t even tell me what’s going on in Egypt that you predicted. . . .
You guys are a laugh riot. No, I mean it. I literally have had to dab my eyes with napkins because of the burning.
That last sentence in particular is one no native-born American would construct. Hmmmm….
I think we all wish the moslems would get a freakin’ clue and stop killing everyone they disagree with and go back to worshiping dung beetles or whatever turns them on. But no. They have to keep boiling up out of their hellholes and coming after the rest of us.
Even if what you said was true, since I have sourced facts, what would be the problem and where is your rebuttal – there is none, just stupid nonsense. A foreigner is wrong about facts? You have an American sun that the Earth travels in a straight line through warped space around and a Maldives sun that behaves differently?
I wasn’t kidding about my eyes literally burning with tears and the lap top jumping on my lap. Some of you people are such hopeless cretins I wonder who dresses you in the morning. So I wrote a few lines wrong – that’s a conspiracy?
The really amazing thing is that I predicted your response using a diving rod and some scraps of paper while in a trance on my second hike along the Inca Trail in 1988. I was aided by sheer willpower, my innate genius and arrogance and unswerving self-confidence in the face of facts (which I find dreary and even boring) and a bottle of “Lago del Amor”, a Peruvian liquor which makes one hallucinate.
I would explain more, but much of what I say is on such an extremely high level that it would probably seem as incomprehensible to you as a chimpanzee looking at the box score of the 7th game of the 1965 World Series between the Minnesota Twins and the Los Angeles Dodgers.
beverly I think the best solution is not to feed the TROLL be it a Mohammedan or just an arrogant narcissist. Malignant Narcissistic such as Mr May just thrive on the attention and the best solution is just to ignore them. You will note of course that he will never critisise Obambi so that is a big tell.
That’s why I went back in a time machine and wrote this about Obama a month ago.
As a troll, your comments are as anonymous as your intellect.
http://www.jamesmaystock.com/essays/Pages/ObamaAntColony.html